TRT, HCG, LIBIDO??

[Gman86]

Absolutely not. Prolactin is a protein and peptide hormone, and its molecular weight is hundreds of times greater than that of hormones such as testosterone. Perhaps you mean to say that testosterone is converted into estradiol, which in turn stimulates greater prolactin production. Quoting Wikipedia: "A key regulator of prolactin production is estrogens that enhance growth of prolactin-producing cells and stimulate prolactin production directly, as well as suppressing dopamine."

Oh very interesting! Didn’t know this. Totally makes sense tho why prolactin and E2 tend to rise together, and also fall together.

So this would mean that in most cases if E2 raises or lowers, prolactin would rise and fall as well, but if we do something to specifically increase or decrease prolactin, it may not have any effect on E2, correct?

 

[Gman86]

I have also notice as prolactin went high I was more interested to spend time with the kids, wife. It was very clear to me prolactin is making me more family friendly.

Was it making u less focused on sex at the same time?

 

[Cataceous]

...
So this would mean that in most cases if E2 raises or lowers, prolactin would rise and fall as well, but if we do something to specifically increase or decrease prolactin, it may not have any effect on E2, correct?

I think the first part works that way, with prolactin generally following estradiol. But as to the consequences of directly manipulating prolactin, there are many different possible interactions, so I wouldn't say anything with too much certainty. In the case of TRT the testosterone is fixed, so the only way to significantly affect estradiol is to change the amount of aromatization. It's probably fairly safe to say that modest changes in prolactin are not a big factor in this. In natural men, forcing prolactin in a particular direction would perhaps move testosterone and estradiol in the opposite direction.

 

[Cataceous]

.... In the case of TRT the testosterone is fixed, so the only way to significantly affect estradiol is to change the amount of aromatization. It's probably fairly safe to say that modest changes in prolactin are not a big factor in this. ...

However, the Wiki aromatase article says "Aromatase activity is decreased by prolactin...", though no reference is given. This work found that "Ovarian aromatase activity was inhibited by prolactin treatment in both cycling rats and immature gonadotropin-primed animals." Also of interest: "Furthermore, aromatase activity was significantly increased when endogenous prolactin was inhibited by bromocryptine (CB-154)." It's unclear if any of this is relevant to male primates.

 

[M.J]

Oh very interesting! Didn’t know this. Totally makes sense tho why prolactin and E2 tend to rise together, and also fall together.

So this would mean that in most cases if E2 raises or lowers, prolactin would rise and fall as well, but if we do something to specifically increase or decrease prolactin, it may not have any effect on E2, correct?

I can tell you this with %100 accuracy without hesitation when I took ginseng 6000 daily prolactin increased and estrogen went down, they didn’t go up or down together.
I am sure of this and have lab in my email that can prove it I was only on ginseng it was before I even started trt.

 

[M.J]

Was it making u less focused on sex at the same time?

I wasn’t doing good at sex I would say as bad as before taking it, I only enjoyed a day or two while those two hormones where going up and down.

 

[M.J]

I think the first part works that way, with prolactin generally following estradiol. But as to the consequences of directly manipulating prolactin, there are many different possible interactions, so I wouldn't say anything with too much certainty. In the case of TRT the testosterone is fixed, so the only way to significantly affect estradiol is to change the amount of aromatization. It's probably fairly safe to say that modest changes in prolactin are not a big factor in this. In natural men, forcing prolactin in a particular direction would perhaps move testosterone and estradiol in the opposite direction.

One point to add here when my estradiol and prolactin was moving because of ginseng testosterone didn’t move and if it did move it was insignificant.

 

[Phil Goodman]

Oh very interesting! Didn’t know this. Totally makes sense tho why prolactin and E2 tend to rise together, and also fall together.

So this would mean that in most cases if E2 raises or lowers, prolactin would rise and fall as well, but if we do something to specifically increase or decrease prolactin, it may not have any effect on E2, correct?

The topic of prolactin came up on a podcast I was listening to today and figured I would put it in here. The guest agrees that a lot of the issues which are attributed to estrogen are actually due to prolactin. He doesn’t go into a ton of detail, but is very well-versed on the topic….and yeah, that doesn’t automatically mean he’s correct but it does mean what he says should probably be considered. The entire podcast is pretty good, and it starts out with some good tips on ways to improve sleep. Some stuff I think he’s off the mark on, but overall worth listening to. This should link you to the mark where he starts talking about the effects of prolactin. If it doesn’t then just jump to the 52:50 mark of the episode, though again it opens with some good tips on sleep so I recommend checking that part out at some point. Wanted to share it with @Anonymon since he mentioned how much trouble he has with good sleep.

#1683 - Andrew Huberman

The Joe Rogan Experience · Episode

open.spotify.com

 

[Gman86]

The topic of prolactin came up on a podcast I was listening to today and figured I would put it in here. The guest agrees that a lot of the issues which are attributed to estrogen are actually due to prolactin. He doesn’t go into a ton of detail, but is very well-versed on the topic….and yeah, that doesn’t automatically mean he’s correct but it does mean what he says should probably be considered. The entire podcast is pretty good, and it starts out with some good tips on ways to improve sleep. Some stuff I think he’s off the mark on, but overall worth listening to. This should link you to the mark where he starts talking about the effects of prolactin. If it doesn’t then just jump to the 52:50 mark of the episode, though again it opens with some good tips on sleep so I recommend checking that part out at some point. Was going to share it with Anonymon since he mentioned how much trouble he has with good sleep, but that thread got closed. I’m sure I’ll have another opportunity to pass it along to him though.

#1683 - Andrew Huberman

The Joe Rogan Experience · Episode

open.spotify.com

Awesome, I was actually just gonna start that podcast after I finish up another one of his I’m on. I listen to every single Joe rogan podcast, and someone posted about this one on a fb HRT group, so I planned on listening to it next

Just edit the reply u just made and before Anonymon’s name, just put an @ symbol, and it will pop up with his name, and maybe a couple other member’s names, and just click on his, and it will now tag him in ur post, and he’ll be notified and he’ll see ur reply and the link to the podcast and everything. U may need to retype his name in after the @ symbol

 

[Gman86]

@Cataceous So most of the time prolactin is a metabolite of E2, correct? But then I was thinking about how some men have prolactinomas, which will cause prolactin to be very high, but not a direct effect on E2, as far as I know. So obviously having a prolactinoma is one way for prolactin to be elevated without E2 having to be elevated, is there any other ways u can think of that would cause prolactin to be elevated, without E2 having to be elevated? A guy in another thread was mentioning having low T but high prolactin, so was jw what would cause this to happen. I guess E2 could be elevated, causing high prolactin, but I would assume in most cases if T is low, E2 is gonna be low as well

 

[Cataceous]

@Cataceous So most of the time prolactin is a metabolite of E2, correct? ...

No! Not a metabolite. Remember that testosterone and estradiol are tiny molecules compared to prolactin. Estradiol is simply one of many factors that influence the production rate of prolactin, and estradiol is stimulatory rather than inhibitory.

There are a few conditions other than prolactinomas that may be associated with hyperprolactinemia. As prolactin is regulated by dopamine , medications that interfere with this substance in the brain can cause elevated prolactin levels. Drugs prescribed for psychiatric and gastrointestinal disorders may raise prolactin levels to greater than 200 ng/ ml. Other drugs that can cause mild elevations of prolactin levels include estrogens and verapamil, a drug used to treat high blood pressure.​

​

An underactive thyroid or inadequate thyroid hormone replacement can also raise prolactin levels, as can kidney disease, pregnancy, stress, and chest trauma.​

What is a Prolactinoma? | What Can Cause Evelated Prolactinoma Level

There are a few conditions other than prolactinomas that may be associated with hyperprolactinemia.

pituitarysociety.org

 

[ivkonst2017]

So most of the time prolactin is a metabolite of E2, correct?

Prolactin is directly created by cells in the pituitary, I think in the frontal part where it competes with LH and FSH. As I remember the prolactin secreting cells are different than the gonadotropin secreting. And as I have read in most men on TRT prolactin jumps, because the gonadotropin secreting sells become dormant and the proalctin secreting flourish.

I for example have empty sella syndrome than somehow promotes the prolactin secreting cells and has suppressed the gonadotropin sells before I started TRT(my FSH was always below range although LH was mid-range)

 

[Gman86]

Prolactin is directly created by cells in the pituitary, I think in the frontal part where it competes with LH and FSH. As I remember the prolactin secreting cells are different than the gonadotropin secreting. And as I have read in most men on TRT prolactin jumps, because the gonadotropin secreting sells become dormant and the proalctin secreting flourish.

I for example have empty sella syndrome than somehow promotes the prolactin secreting cells and has suppressed the gonadotropin sells before I started TRT(my FSH was always below range although LH was mid-range)

Do u have to control prolactin independently now that ur on TRT? Meaning controlling it in a way other than manipulating ur testosterone dose

 

[ivkonst2017]

Do u have to control prolactin independently now that ur on TRT? Meaning controlling it in a way other than manipulating ur testosterone dose

Yes, I continue to be on cabergoline. After I started TRT my prolactine jumped on the current caber dose and it is almost on the top of the reference range. Ive never considered lowering my test dose to manipulate prolactine, this seems not effective to me to compromise optimal test levels. If I want to reduce prolactine more Im going to slightly bump caber which by the way I consider doing but only if my TRT dictor approves it in September when we talk

 

[Gman86]

Yes, I continue to be on cabergoline. After I started TRT my prolactine jumped on the current caber dose and it is almost on the top of the reference range. Ive never considered lowering my test dose to manipulate prolactine, this seems not effective to me to compromise optimal test levels. If I want to reduce prolactine more Im going to slightly bump caber which by the way I consider doing but only if my TRT dictor approves it in September when we talk

What’s ur caber dose per week?

Have u looked into P5P and/ or vitamin E, in regards to their prolactin lowering properties? They supposedly can lower prolactin quite considerably, in studies and anectodally.

 

[ivkonst2017]

What’s ur caber dose per week?

Have u looked into P5P and/ or vitamin E, in regards to their prolactin lowering properties? They supposedly can lower prolactin quite considerably, in studies and anectodally.

I have taken vit e 400 ui for the liver, no effect on prolactine.
About p5p I know the dosages in which it can affect prolactine are not safe at all and with caber I have ni any side effects which happens very rarely with me for anything

 

[Gman86]

I have taken vit e 400 ui for the liver, no effect on prolactine.
About p5p I know the dosages in which it can affect prolactine are not safe at all and with caber I have ni any side effects which happens very rarely with me for anything

Wow, no effect on prolactin at all from 400iu of vitamin E? I surprised. The studies looked so promising. And what doses of P5P are u referring to? I’ve heard of doses of 100mg/ day and above potentially causing issues eventually, but seems like guys can get some pretty good results from just 50mg/ day. A guy on here, or from a TRT fb group, I forget where I started talking to him, but he got his prolactin down from 22.8 to 6.4 just using 50mg of P5P per day

 

[Warrior]

I am fortunate, 15yrs of TRT therapy, no sides from a simple 500ius of HCG split weekly. Cypionate test at 80mgs every 3 or 4 days. I've lowered my dose several times with no change. My hematocrit is higher then I like when I test yearly, but my doc says it's ok.

 

[Swilsondc]

I am fortunate, 15yrs of TRT therapy, no sides from a simple 500ius of HCG split weekly. Cypionate test at 80mgs every 3 or 4 days. I've lowered my dose several times with no change. My hematocrit is higher then I like when I test yearly, but my doc says it's ok.

So 250ius 2x/wk seems to be enough to keep the testicles normal? Also for you or snyone else, does it matter when you use the HCG in relation to when you use your cyp? I just use mine on days I don’t use test cyp. I didn’t know if it made a difference using same day, day after or day before.

 

[Systemlord]

I have also notice as prolactin went high I was more interested to spend time with the kids, wife. It was very clear to me prolactin is making me more family friendly.

Getting married and having children has been shown to lower testosterone in men.