TRT Dosage advice?

[Vince]

This is my 10th month on TRT and have done ED SQ with 30-31G 6-8mm in the sides and upper glutes from day one. I feel great and have only tried IM in the shoulders twice and did not like the feel of the depot in the muscle. It actually was painful for a couple of days, especially while working out. I did not feel any advantage over SQ. I also do not see the reason to puncture the fascia on a daily basis, cant be good. With SQ ED, I have no leakage, pain, blood or scarring, only sometimes an itch and only on the sides but thats it.

Do you ever get any bruising from Sub-Q injections?

 

[Westin]

Take it easy...You take no offense yet you act defensively. Dont sweat it... no one is scarring their tissue with 29g or 30g easy touch needles, and as for protocols you’re taken it farther back. There have been several versions of TRT. Im referring to the last version of it. There. Im just adding to the conversation. So how are you feeling by the way? Good I hope, this quarantine thing can be a bit annoying after 3 weeks

Your age and experience shows once again.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Do you ever get any bruising from Sub-Q injections?

no bruising, I get the initial small bubble/depot but thats gone within a couple of hours to a day. The only weird side effect of SQ in the sides is an itch but only when I touch it, I notice it. This does not occur injecting SQ in the upper glute.

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

Hey all - reporting back in and with a question.

I've been 3.5 weeks since moving up to 75mgx2 from 70. There has been substantial improvement! Still a ways to go. Though I'm dying to start 80mgx2, I'm following the recommendations of this thread and waiting 6 weeks after dosage change to do blood work and reevaluate.

My question does have to do with the 6-week recommendation that I'm heeding; so I did see substantial improvement in week 2 of this new dosage - do you all have any experience with substantial change at 4 or 5 weeks? I know changing dosages is like throwing a pebble into a pond with a great deal of rippling until everything evens out - but can I expect anything else before the 6 week mark?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

50BMG,

Patience Grasshopper...you need to slow down, and be patient. Quit changing your protocol like I change my socks. Wait the six weeks, and retest. Also, only change one thing at a time in your protocol, instead of 3. If you change multiple items on your protocol at the same time, you'll never know exactly what caused the change in your labs.

You mentioned that you were taking Anastrozole 1/2 per week. What exactly does that mean? Does it mean you were taking 0.5mg/once a week?? Please be as specific as you can when you post things like this. Also, you really need to know where your free T level is at. This should be part of any TRT lab.

 

[Cataceous]

The standard direct free testosterone test should not be used; it is inaccurate. The alternatives are an expensive test—based on equilibrium dialysis or ultrafiltration—or measuring SHBG along with total testosterone to calculate free testosterone using the Tru-T calculator. At the moment an SHBG test is only $25 at LEF.org.

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

Ok this information is GOLD - thank you, Cataceous!! Great - I think I'll go with the test I usually get and add SHBG so I can get total T, and the SHBG should help me know if injecting twice a week is still a good plan. I'll report back with the results! Thank you all again! I am so grateful.

 

[Westin]

When you say “only”, keep in mind 150mg per week is a significant dosage when you are in the TRT spectrum.

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

You know I've noticed that on this forum a lot of people are on substantially smaller doses than other places online, and that has piqued my interest. I started on 200/wk and it shot me >1500, which in addition to reversing most of the benefits of TRT, made me uncomfortable as it was completely unnatural. So I cut back to 140 for 6 weeks which brought me to total T of 526. I went up to 150 six weeks ago this Friday, so will do more blood work before injection on Friday and evaluate from there. Dr. Crisler makes reference to his patient doing well in the "top quartile" of normal T numbers, so that makes me think 800-1000 is the range he's talking about. I'll be interested in my numbers from Friday's test and providing they're not too high I'll be raising to 160 and hoping for a better sexual response.

 

[Westin]

Seems your chasing a number and not a feeling healthwise. Switching protcol every six weeks is bad. Its not enough time for everything to balace out. It takes six weeks for levels to stablize and just when that is starting to happen you are changing again. Hormones are NOT like drugs where you see quick reactions. If you don't stop and wait you will never find your sweet spot. You're chasing your tail. For some people it takes eight weeks just to have stable levels. Until levels stablize you dont know if the dosage is working. Until my levels are stable EVERYTHING is off, not working at all. Minimum six weeks for sure. If you're going to be in this game you need to know the fundamentals.

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

Thanks for the reply - let me make sure I'm hearing correctly. So minimum six weeks until my body adjusts to the new dosage - so basically though I've been on this dosage for six weeks now, I actually haven't felt the effects? I have no problem shooting straight with you all - I'm a very fit 39 year old that takes care of himself, and my only symptom of low T was ED, which got my attention in a big way. I've felt good and had much more energy since beginning TRT (didn't know what I was missing energywise, but it's clear in hindsight); so basically libido and sexual function are my only means of evaluating whether I'm where I should be. About 2 weeks into this protocol was half decent, but it's sort of faded away.

But what you're saying is that since things are in flux until a minimum of six weeks, I can expect libido and sexual function to be poor until things level out - so I may even be on a good dose now but wouldn't know it? That is very encouraging - just want to be sure I've heard it right!

I really don't care WHAT the number is, as long as my quality of life returns - if that's 500, so be it! I am clearly in this for the long haul so I do want to do it correctly. So far my doofis urologist had me on 200mg/wk, T over 1500, with terrible results, then I experienced more terrible results when I took myself down to 140. 150 has been better so I feel like I'm moving in the right direction, but it's good to know that I may yet see improvement in the next two weeks.

 

[TLawyer]

Thanks for the reply - let me make sure I'm hearing correctly. So minimum six weeks until my body adjusts to the new dosage - so basically though I've been on this dosage for six weeks now, I actually haven't felt the effects? I have no problem shooting straight with you all - I'm a very fit 39 year old that takes care of himself, and my only symptom of low T was ED, which got my attention in a big way. I've felt good and had much more energy since beginning TRT (didn't know what I was missing energywise, but it's clear in hindsight); so basically libido and sexual function are my only means of evaluating whether I'm where I should be. About 2 weeks into this protocol was half decent, but it's sort of faded away.

But what you're saying is that since things are in flux until a minimum of six weeks, I can expect libido and sexual function to be poor until things level out - so I may even be on a good dose now but wouldn't know it? That is very encouraging - just want to be sure I've heard it right!

I really don't care WHAT the number is, as long as my quality of life returns - if that's 500, so be it! I am clearly in this for the long haul so I do want to do it correctly. So far my doofis urologist had me on 200mg/wk, T over 1500, with terrible results, then I experienced more terrible results when I took myself down to 140. 150 has been better so I feel like I'm moving in the right direction, but it's good to know that I may yet see improvement in the next two weeks.

There is a timeline chart that I've seen (I think the link was from someone on the forum) that lists the general time it takes to see improvement in different areas ONCE you are dialed in on an appropriate dose. If I recall correctly, the chart had ED taking up to 12 months to see improvement and seemed to be the last positive effect to take hold. I think libido increases can be seen within a few weeks. Then again, ED issues are multi-faceted and not necessarily caused by hormonal issues, so no guarantee that it will improve (but certainly a possibility after time and a good hormonal profile generally makes ED treatments more effective).

 

[TLawyer]

Do you ever get any bruising from Sub-Q injections?

I do Sub-Q every day, 30 gauge needles. I bruise once maybe every 6 weeks or so. Not a big deal, and no other bad effects.

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

Man, that's tough - so then will libido be my major indicator of correct dosage, then wait a year to see if ED follows suit? Ouch - but I do have to figure it out somehow. I have heard that ED is the last thing to sort itself out, but that does present a challenge for me since I don't have traditional low T symptoms.

There was about a two week period, maybe two months after I got on TRT initially on 200/wk that things were pretty great. I've been wracking my brain to figure out what the magic bullet was there, but clearly my body was hugely out of whack and there's no magic bullet to be had there.

 

[TLawyer]

Man, that's tough - so then will libido be my major indicator of correct dosage, then wait a year to see if ED follows suit? Ouch - but I do have to figure it out somehow. I have heard that ED is the last thing to sort itself out, but that does present a challenge for me since I don't have traditional low T symptoms.

There was about a two week period, maybe two months after I got on TRT initially on 200/wk that things were pretty great. I've been wracking my brain to figure out what the magic bullet was there, but clearly my body was hugely out of whack and there's no magic bullet to be had there.

Everyone is different, but libido seems to be one of the first things to improve. I would judge based on that, see if your energy goes up, overall better feeling. If those things are getting better, then that's all positive signs that you're headed in the right direction. I am on that path myself (only been on for about 6 months). Things aren't perfect, but better. Have you tried low dose daily Tadalafil? What is your DHT level?

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

I don't think I've ever tested DHT - should I add that to my next labs?

I have been hesitant to add any ED drugs yet simply because I'm hoping that the correct dose of TC will correct things, and I feel like I really wouldn't know if I was taking something else. If it comes to that I absolutely will - I'd just like to be as aware as I can be of what my body is doing.

 

[TLawyer]

I don't think I've ever tested DHT - should I add that to my next labs?

I have been hesitant to add any ED drugs yet simply because I'm hoping that the correct dose of TC will correct things, and I feel like I really wouldn't know if I was taking something else. If it comes to that I absolutely will - I'd just like to be as aware as I can be of what my body is doing.

You need to bit the bullet and start getting full labs. DHT is very important, particularly for libido. You need to know your prolactin levels, E2, free testosterone, etc. Are you under the care of a doctor? You can go to www.discountlabs.com and look at their TRT tests if you don't have a doctor (or one that doesn't know what they're doing). Look up Tadalafil on this forum (and Gene's NO stack). There are lots of general health benefits beyond just helping address ED. Here's the deal - you're willing to pump your body full of testosterone and HCG and AI, but don't want to take daily Tadalfil (Cialis) to improve your overall satisfaction? It can certainly help you while you are adjusting to the right dose, and you can always stop periodically if you want to see if it is making a difference.

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

Ok, I'll add DHT to my labs - I think I was already planning the rest. I have an excellent PCP who is very supportive of my TRT but doesn't know anything about it, and my urologist was happy for me to stay on 200mg/wk indefinitely as well as crashing my e2 with AIs. I'm just happy I got a script for TC as I know many guys can't even get that.

I will research all the things you mentioned.

I gotta say I can't help but feel a bit discouraged after reading all this - just seems like it will be impossible to actually arrive at the right dose. I mean waiting a year between? Man, that's just such a long time. Just so many variables - what I wouldn't give to have a doctor who truly understood TRT - it's just so much to try to manage by myself.

 

[Westin]

Yes. Hormones are not drugs. When you change a hormone level, even though the level will be stable after about 5 to 8 weeks your body is slow to get used to the new normal. I changed my protocol from 2 injections to 3 a week, no libido, hardly anything then after 6 weeks I started feeling it. Now I need to give it at least another 2 weeks to see where I land. Drugs are fast, these are not drugs, they react slowly. If things keep changing youll never get there. 150mg is a very solid dose, give it time. Are you using a script or on your own with an underground lab? That can also make a huge difference.

 

[TLawyer]

Ok, I'll add DHT to my labs - I think I was already planning the rest. I have an excellent PCP who is very supportive of my TRT but doesn't know anything about it, and my urologist was happy for me to stay on 200mg/wk indefinitely as well as crashing my e2 with AIs. I'm just happy I got a script for TC as I know many guys can't even get that.

I will research all the things you mentioned.

I gotta say I can't help but feel a bit discouraged after reading all this - just seems like it will be impossible to actually arrive at the right dose. I mean waiting a year between? Man, that's just such a long time. Just so many variables - what I wouldn't give to have a doctor who truly understood TRT - it's just so much to try to manage by myself.

I would sign up with Defy Medical. They are an excellent group and experts in the field. You're a young guy - if it takes a year to dial things in (and it may happen sooner than that) and gives you 40 years of happiness, it will be well worth it.