TRT and AAS Effect on Adrenals

[DixieWrecked]

Just a question for you guys. I remember certain bouts of insane lethargy while on TRT. I was surfing Reddit and some dude was saying steroid abuse shut down his adrenals. Taking that with a grain of salt but I do know a lot of people suffer from fatigue on TRT or steroids and some gain some relief by significantly dropping their doses. Do we have any broacience or anecdotes on adrenal function, cortisol levels along with TRT or AAS use?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Just found thiis

Testosterone can have various effects on cortisol levels. Research has shown that testosterone may decrease cortisol reactivity to stress and suppress cortisol responses to pharmacological stimulation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis in men[1][3]. Additionally, there is evidence of an inverse relationship between cortisol and testosterone, where the administration of cortisol can lead to reduced blood testosterone levels[2]. However, some studies have found that testosterone administration has no significant effect on basal cortisol release[1][5]. The relationship between testosterone and cortisol is complex and may be influenced by factors such as the specific context of administration and the individual's characteristics. Therefore, the impact of testosterone on cortisol levels is not fully understood and requires further research to elucidate the underlying mechanisms.

For more information, you can refer to the provided sources.

Sources
[1] Serum Testosterone and Cortisol Concentrations After Single-Dose Administration of 100-Mg Transdermal Testosterone in Healthy Men Frontiers | Serum Testosterone and Cortisol Concentrations After Single-Dose Administration of 100-Mg Transdermal Testosterone in Healthy Men
[2] Relationship Between Circulating Cortisol and Testosterone: Influence of Physical Exercise Relationship Between Circulating Cortisol and Testosterone: Influence of Physical Exercise
[3] Exogenous testosterone enhances cortisol and affective responses to social-evaluative stress in dominant men Exogenous testosterone enhances cortisol and affective responses to social-evaluative stress in dominant men
[4] Testosterone Suppression of CRH-stimulated Cortisol in Men Testosterone Suppression of CRH-stimulated Cortisol in Men
[5] Effects of Testosterone Administration on Nocturnal Cortisol Secretion in Healthy Older Men Effects of Testosterone Administration on Nocturnal Cortisol Secretion in Healthy Older Men

By Perplexity at https://www.perplexity.ai/search/4e78f58b-fd62-4237-93d6-6b3f6f853b76

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Just a question for you guys. I remember certain bouts of insane lethargy while on TRT. I was surfing Reddit and some dude was saying steroid abuse shut down his adrenals. Taking that with a grain of salt but I do know a lot of people suffer from fatigue on TRT or steroids and some gain some relief by significantly dropping their doses. Do we have any broacience or anecdotes on adrenal function, cortisol levels along with TRT or AAS use?

I'm skeptical that this is a thing. More likely in my opinion, the fatigue some report on high doses is caused by sleep disruption. I would even guess iron depletion before anything HPA related.

If you had evidence of excellent quality sleep, recorded by an oura ring or equivalent in a high dose TRT guy, also shown not to have single digit ferritin, thyroid is normal, etc, I might consider this a possibility. Otherwise I wouldn't.

 

[Seagal]

Just a question for you guys. I remember certain bouts of insane lethargy while on TRT. I was surfing Reddit and some dude was saying steroid abuse shut down his adrenals. Taking that with a grain of salt but I do know a lot of people suffer from fatigue on TRT or steroids and some gain some relief by significantly dropping their doses. Do we have any broacience or anecdotes on adrenal function, cortisol levels along with TRT or AAS use?

In my experience there is a correlation with sleep quality and workout load. On higher androgen dosage I noticed waking up snoring.

 

[Seagal]

The complex relation between obstructive sleep apnoea syndrome, hypogonadism and testosterone replacement therapy - PubMed

Obstructive sleep apnoea syndrome (OSAS) is an under-recognized medical disease. The main risk factors for OSAS are male sex, older age, obesity, and metabolic syndrome, that are also associated with male hypogonadism (MH). Therefore, obesity has been classically identified as the most evident...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"the type and dosage of TRT should be considered, as short-term high-dose TRT might worsen OSAS, whereas long-term lower doses could eventually determine a clinical improvement of symptoms of OSAS. "

 

[DixieWrecked]

I've tried to use a CPAP but it just absoluterly sucks. Even the most comfortable masks are cumbersome and no matter how low the pressure I end up blutted from aerophagia (air in my stomach).

But last night this thread motivated me to stop by CVS and purchase this mouthpeice and lowe and behold it works like a freaking charm! As good results as the CPAP but without the bad sleep and stomach pain. I feel incredible today.

SmartGuard Anti-Snore Device, - CVS Pharmacy

Buy SmartGuard Anti-Snore Device, and enjoy free shipping on most orders. Shop CVS now to see coupons and get the best deals!

www.cvs.com

If this continues to work and I feel this good everyday then this will be life changing. There are plenty of good brands. Youtube has some good comparisons.

 

[Gman86]

I've tried to use a CPAP but it just absoluterly sucks. Even the most comfortable masks are cumbersome and no matter how low the pressure I end up blutted from aerophagia (air in my stomach).

But last night this thread motivated me to stop by CVS and purchase this mouthpeice and lowe and behold it works like a freaking charm! As good results as the CPAP but without the bad sleep and stomach pain. I feel incredible today.

SmartGuard Anti-Snore Device, - CVS Pharmacy

Buy SmartGuard Anti-Snore Device, and enjoy free shipping on most orders. Shop CVS now to see coupons and get the best deals!

www.cvs.com

If this continues to work and I feel this good everyday then this will be life changing. There are plenty of good brands. Youtube has some good comparisons.

Is it one size fits all? Or are their different sizes?

 

[Seagal]

My nasal airways are narrowed. Could have had surgery but opted to use a cortison nasal spray before bed to avoid congested nasal airways and therefore snoring.
Tilted window in the bedroom when possible to get fresh cool air.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Is it one size fits all? Or are their different sizes?

Its one size fits all but you customize it by putting it in hot water and then biting into it. Fits perfectly on me. There are adjustmets for how much intervention you want, how much it moves your jaw forward. I really didn't need to move my jaw forward much. It can pretty much stay neutral as long as my jaw doesn't sag at night and pinch my airway which this device accomplishes.

People with underbites need more intervention moving their jaw more forward which this mouthguard can do.

 

[WestB87]

Just a question for you guys. I remember certain bouts of insane lethargy while on TRT. I was surfing Reddit and some dude was saying steroid abuse shut down his adrenals. Taking that with a grain of salt but I do know a lot of people suffer from fatigue on TRT or steroids and some gain some relief by significantly dropping their doses. Do we have any broacience or anecdotes on adrenal function, cortisol levels along with TRT or AAS use?

My personal advice, stay entirely off Reddit. It’s a cesspool of echo chamber nonsense with zero factual verification of user credentials or posted opinions.

For the rest of your post that I’ve read through, I’ve felt great on TRT for almost 2 years but my sleep (and depression) have taken an absolute nosedive in the past 3 months. I regularly wake up at 0130-0330 regardless of what time I go to sleep and usually have to take melatonin unless the wife and I have gotten physical just before sleeping. I’ll look into one of those mouthpieces and consider using it. I’m a stomach sleeper so even if I had a sleep study (I may ask the VA for one anyway) the CPAP mask likely wouldn’t fit correctly with the side of my face laid against the pillow. I’ll keep an eye on your thread for any further developments.

 

[Gman86]

My personal advice, stay entirely off Reddit. It’s a cesspool of echo chamber nonsense with zero factual verification of user credentials or posted opinions.

For the rest of your post that I’ve read through, I’ve felt great on TRT for almost 2 years but my sleep (and depression) have taken an absolute nosedive in the past 3 months. I regularly wake up at 0130-0330 regardless of what time I go to sleep and usually have to take melatonin unless the wife and I have gotten physical just before sleeping. I’ll look into one of those mouthpieces and consider using it. I’m a stomach sleeper so even if I had a sleep study (I may ask the VA for one anyway) the CPAP mask likely wouldn’t fit correctly with the side of my face laid against the pillow. I’ll keep an eye on your thread for any further developments.

Man, that’s rough that ur depression has gotten worse. Usually test is amazing as far as improving mood goes. Do u think ur time in the military has anything to do with ur mood? Any thoughts on what changed recently that would have negatively affected both ur sleep and mood?

And just like I tell everyone, first thing to address when dealing with things like this is diet. Diet has way more of an effect on those things than people realize. Any changes to ur diet or stress levels in the past 3 months?

 

[WestB87]

Man, that’s rough that ur depression has gotten worse. Usually test is amazing as far as improving mood goes. Do u think ur time in the military has anything to do with ur mood? Any thoughts on what changed recently that would have negatively affected both ur sleep and mood?

And just like I tell everyone, first thing to address when dealing with things like this is diet. Diet has way more of an effect on those things than people realize. Any changes to ur diet or stress levels in the past 3 months?

TRT has been nothing short of a miracle for me for almost the entire time I’ve been on it. My brain fog lifted, my depression went into remission, my pre-diabetes went into remission, fat loss became a matter of CICO without complete zero carb as it was before, sex with the wife got better than it was before (which was honestly already good), and on and on.

Diet is currently 3500 calories per day. 200g protein, 393g carbs, 125g fat. Trying to bulk in earnest for the first time in my life as an attempt to correct some of these issues. Trying this versus the “see-food” diet on bulk I’d done prior and just gotten excessively fat.

I’ve been dealing with the VA a lot lately, specifically facing the reality of “disability”. I despise the term disability, but the pain I live with daily is getting tiresome and I’m finally seeking help for it. I’ve had to quit drinking for over 6 months now as it’s caused rapid heart rate (140-160bpm) and headaches within 30 mins of the first drink. I suspect not being able to mute my mind with a drink is dredging up old combat experiences alongside dealing with old injuries, both physical and mental, may be a driving factor in my depression. Or it’s the garbage sleep *shrug*

 

[FunkOdyssey]

My personal advice, stay entirely off Reddit. It’s a cesspool of echo chamber nonsense with zero factual verification of user credentials or posted opinions.

For the rest of your post that I’ve read through, I’ve felt great on TRT for almost 2 years but my sleep (and depression) have taken an absolute nosedive in the past 3 months. I regularly wake up at 0130-0330 regardless of what time I go to sleep and usually have to take melatonin unless the wife and I have gotten physical just before sleeping.

Do you have an oura ring? That's the first thing you need to troubleshoot anything sleep related, so you can track your sleep architecture and any apnea / O2 desaturation episodes.

Have you tried progesterone for the sleep disturbance? I consider progesterone the main antidote to TRT emergent insomnia aside from dose reduction.

 

[WestB87]

Do you have an oura ring? That's the first thing you need to troubleshoot anything sleep related, so you can track your sleep architecture and any apnea / O2 desaturation episodes.

Have you tried progesterone for the sleep disturbance? That's what I consider the main antidote to TRT emergent insomnia aside from dose reduction.

I do have an Apple Watch that tracks this stuff but I’ve left it on charge while I’m sleeping. Perhaps I should wear it to bed. Good advice man.

No sir, I haven’t tried progesterone. Don’t know much about it, but I’ll gladly go research it. Thanks for the tip.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I do have an Apple Watch that tracks this stuff but I’ve left it on charge while I’m sleeping. Perhaps I should wear it to bed. Good advice man.

No sir, I haven’t tried progesterone. Don’t know much about it, but I’ll gladly go research it. Thanks for the tip.

Progesterone levels drop in men on TRT and it has calming / sedative / sleep promoting effects either directly or through it's metabolite allopregnanolone. You can try the OTC cream version or get some injectable progesterone from your provider for better precision.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Here is some data for ya'll on the mouthpiece and my pulse oximeter. One night without the mouthpiece and one with the mouthpiece split into two reading for some reason. You can see it clearly works for my sleep apnea and also it was reported to me that I am barely snoring.

 

[DixieWrecked]

My personal advice, stay entirely off Reddit. It’s a cesspool of echo chamber nonsense with zero factual verification of user credentials or posted opinions.

For the rest of your post that I’ve read through, I’ve felt great on TRT for almost 2 years but my sleep (and depression) have taken an absolute nosedive in the past 3 months. I regularly wake up at 0130-0330 regardless of what time I go to sleep and usually have to take melatonin unless the wife and I have gotten physical just before sleeping. I’ll look into one of those mouthpieces and consider using it. I’m a stomach sleeper so even if I had a sleep study (I may ask the VA for one anyway) the CPAP mask likely wouldn’t fit correctly with the side of my face laid against the pillow. I’ll keep an eye on your thread for any further developments.

Melatonin will cause me some raging depression, man. I've delt with depression before, I'm a vet as well btw. I'm good though, but if I take melatonin, it takes me back to that feeling. I know exactly what it is, it is full blown depression. Good thing is it can be escaped easily by just not taking the melatonin and I pretty much back to normal the next day.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Melatonin will cause me some raging depression, man. I've delt with depression before, I'm a vet as well btw. I'm good though, but if I take melatonin, it takes me back to that feeling. I know exactly what it is, it is full blown depression. Good thing is it can be escaped easily by just not taking the melatonin and I pretty much back to normal the next day.

You aren't kidding about melatonin. That stuff is depression in a capsule.

 

[Seagal]

How many mg of melatonin did you take when experiencing depression symptoms?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

How many mg of melatonin did you take when experiencing depression symptoms?

Experienced this over a range between 1.5 to 6 mg and the negative effects were more intense at higher doses.