To "HCG" Or Not "HCG" Two Weeks Into Testosterone Therapy Treatment?

[burnoutat42]

"To "HCG" Or Not "HCG" Two Weeks Into Testosterone Therapy Treatment?


So after two weeks of "TRT Treatment", at Cyp 200 mg/ml – 0.40 ml IM/SQ twice weekly or 160 mg a week by balls have indeed elected to shrink! I'm going to include all of my initial labs below and would appreciate various opinions arguing both "for", and "against", HCG at this state of the game!

(Note) I'm not you're garden variety TRT treatment patient as I just very recently came off all RX drugs one of which included "Klonopin" a benzodiazepine! I was on Klonopin 1.5 to 2 mg daily for sixteen years! During this time I started experiencing chronic pain and hence was put on "Hydrocodone 10/325 mg x three times a day daily. It should also be stated that I came off Gabapentin during this time as well.. or 300 mg x four times a day or 1,200 mg daily.

I'm extremely hesitant to reverse the clock so to speak and begin an HCG protocol which might send me spiraling back to week one? The reason I mention the aforementioned as I spent the last seventeen months in hell with slight improvement only as of yesterday(-:

I'm by no means doing great however I'll take any improvement I can get at this point! For the first time in months I felt my libido somewhat kick back in as of yesterday. With the aforementioned being said one might obviously see how concerned I am with respect to starting HCG only to have to rewind the clock and potentially go back to square one?

 

[Vince]

I think because you already started your protocol, I would wait until your levels stabilize and you get your labs in 6 to 12 weeks. You may have to lower your testosterone dose when you add in HCG.

 

[BigBamBoo]

For some...including me...hCG can cause other issues. I am with Vince. I would wait and give your TRT some time to “settle in”.

One of my wishes was I had started with JUST T and no HCG.

Also, note that your nuts can grow and shrink daily. Water intake, physical exercise, etc., can play a roll in the fullness.

I have been off HCG for over 8 weeks now. I do not feel or see and difference in size. In fact...if anything...theseem fuller and firmer now without the HCG.

And as bonus, I lost 10+ lbs since cutting out the HCG. Probably due to water weight/bloating that the spiked E2 from the HCG caused...but hey...I will take it.

 

[S1W]

It almost seems as if you're trying to "spike the ball" so to speak. Be aware that almost nobody settles right into their first protocol and never changes anything. There WILL be ups and downs, trial and error, etc. Patience is key with TRT. You're only 2 weeks into your first protocol - many people take a year or more to get dialed in.

I agree with the others that have said ride it out for a while and see how you feel. There is no one data point in labs or even in how you feel that would determine what effect, if any, that HCG would have on you. For some guys, it makes them feel worse, for some it makes them feel better, some feel nothing at all.

Best of luck to you.

 

[burnoutat42]

For some...including me...hCG can cause other issues. I am with Vince. I would wait and give your TRT some time to “settle in”.

One of my wishes was I had started with JUST T and no HCG.

Also, note that your nuts can grow and shrink daily. Water intake, physical exercise, etc., can play a roll in the fullness.

I have been off HCG for over 8 weeks now. I do not feel or see and difference in size. In fact...if anything...theseem fuller and firmer now without the HCG.

And as bonus, I lost 10+ lbs since cutting out the HCG. Probably due to water weight/bloating that the spiked E2 from the HCG caused...but hey...I will take it.

My thinking initially when I started "TRT" two weeks ago was similar to what you expressed above! Back in the day when I was competing I would run "Sustanon 250", then after and only after I came off my cycle would I add variables such as "HCG", and "Nolvadex". Occasionally I would use "Nolvadex", mid cycle if my nipples were literally "Leaking". But then again I was only eighteen years old and extremely naive back then! I only did steroids for a year...never touched them again after that and was "Natural", for a full year leading up to my first NPC based show(-:

 

[WrenchHead80]

Just to clarify, I didn't mean you would be going backwards as far as progress goes. Only meant that when you were planning to do follow-up labs (being the minimum of 6 weeks or longer) you would reset back to week one. I can only see this bothering someone like my old self or others that couldn't wait to see numbers and a difference. I've learned from here myself its more important on how you feel and your symptoms then what your numbers are.

I agree with others about nobody's first protocol is usually the one they stick with. I also feel if you have symptoms they should be addressed. If you stay on your current course and your balls are hurting you, why should you suffer for weeks? Your balls aren't going to stop hurting or grow back on their own. So you wait 6 weeks to end up starting on HCG eventually and change your protocol anyways.

If I remember LH correctly. I believe in your case it means your brain wasn't sending a strong single to your balls to work more since your number is low. Yours was low like mine. That's why HCG works for me and will probably work for you if you try it. If we had high LH numbers, that would mean are brain was functioning correctly and was yelling at the balls to do something but they couldn't since they were not functioning correctly. I think its these people that HCG doesn't work for. HCG basically mimics LH I believe. Someone fell free to correct me if I'm wrong here.

If I was you an based on seeing your labs. I think its smart to stay with the twice a week pins of Test (I think a Monday morning, Thursday evening is considered spaced out equally for a week, You can change the days though). Your dose may not be that off due to you having a higher SHBG (it may move though after starting TRT). Since you have low estradiol, I wouldn't do daily HCG shots. Unless you are feeling symptoms of high estrodiol which I'm assuming your not since you didn't say anything. Why stick yourself everyday if their is no benefit really. HCG will help raise your estradiol which will help you feel better. I'd assume the test is already helping you bump you estradiol up too. I'd try the twice a week of HCG. You could pin it the day before your test pins. Seems the norm is 1000iu's a week of hcg divided by how many days you pin. Few here do 500iu's twice a week. I wouldn't do more then that since I've read a few threads that show your body can only use so much HCG in one shot and 500iu's seems to be that upper limit.

I would also look into possible reasons why your RBC, Hemoglobin and Hematocrit are low. You donating blood a lot? May not be anything but I would ask your Dr who is handling your TRT to be on the safe side. They may want to take a stool sample, not sure.

 

[burnoutat42]

Wow, thank you for the amazing well thought out extremely concise reply! I have been feeling a little under the weather the last few days as I'm currently only "Forty five days post Klonopin w/d". I agree with pretty much everything you wrote and will move forward both listening to the advice referenced above while also intuitively listening to my own body as it continues to HEAL!

I believe the reason "I'm bleeding internally", stems from Klonopin w/d)-: I had severe constipation / hemorrhoid issues for the duration of most of my taper.

In closing thus far "TRT Therapy", has indeed taken the edge off however I still have a long way to go! I'm eating super clean while also embarking on an MHBOT or Mild Hyper Baric Oxygen protocol as well which encompasses five days a week @ 1hr a session.

I will continue to post updates via this thread the further along I manage to get in this process (IE) Every six months or so. In closing once again thanks for the wealth of information which is greatly appreciated!

 

[lowe2sucks]

every time i was working with doctor on my trt hcg was there... is it healthy to do T solo I don't know but I haven't had as many issues on T solo

 

[Tman]

My experience-T too high, balls will shrink...
When I was on the gels, my balls shrunk fairly quickly. A blood test after 30 days had my T around 1400. I cut back the dose, dropped levels to 900, added HCG for a week, and my balls returned to normal. I have not used HCG since because it was spiking my E2, and my balls have remained the same size. However, the sack has tightened up. I've switched to shots, and it's taken a while to get my T up. No change to the boys. I might add HCG back in after stabilizing on the T. I am a low SHBG guy, 17ish.

 

[Smokey]

I hate HCG because of E2 issues but if I don’t take it something doesn’t feel right/complete due to HCG igniting the other hormones. I think the 65mg T twice weekly with 250iu hcg was the best for me but E2 still climbed to 50. I am now trying 200mg of cream with 100iu hcg which is Dr Crislers preferred method of all