The Thread for Dialed-In Dudes

[Mountain Man]

Seems like most of the dialed in guys are older. Seems like the 20s and 30 year old guys have a lot more trouble getting it right.

I agree with this at age 65. I have been very happy at how easy I have had it. My protocol is simple and this may also be a factor. I started an 100 mg test cypionate weekly and have settled on 130 weekly for the past year with great results and numbers. I also think that younger guys are more impatient and will fall for the AI, HCG, trap that makes it hard to figure out what needs to be adjusted when things are not dialed in yet. I also wonder how much consistency younger guys have with their working out and essentials like sleep, diet, and sexual partners. I got on at 62, my boys are grown, an empty nester with a wife of 31 years that still has a great sex drive that I desire as much as in 1987. I have been exercising virtually every day in some manner since 1967. My clinic is that of Abraham Morgantaler in Boston, and they are famous for a simple and cautious protocol. If you think about it, I have no excuse to not be doing well on TRT. I actually think that the younger guys have it far tougher. There is so much information out there that almost all younger guys overthink everything, from workouts, to TRT protocols, to diets- keto, fasting, macros etc., and all the info on the internet about sex that it’s no wonder that guys are confused and struggling with all this.

Life isn’t that complicated, nor is staying fit. Look at the physiques of some of the old school bodybuilders and athletes of the pre Arnold era. They actually considered a healthy lifestyle as a training protocol. Wow, imagine that.

 

[Charliebizz]

I agree with this at age 65. I have been very happy at how easy I have had it. My protocol is simple and this may also be a factor. I started an 100 mg test cypionate weekly and have settled on 130 weekly for the past year with great results and numbers. I also think that younger guys are more impatient and will fall for the AI, HCG, trap that makes it hard to figure out what needs to be adjusted when things are not dialed in yet. I also wonder how much consistency younger guys have with their working out and essentials like sleep, diet, and sexual partners. I got on at 62, my boys are grown, an empty nester with a wife of 31 years that still has a great sex drive that I desire as much as in 1987. I have been exercising virtually every day in some manner since 1967. My clinic is that of Abraham Morgantaler in Boston, and they are famous for a simple and cautious protocol. If you think about it, I have no excuse to not be doing well on TRT. I actually think that the younger guys have it far tougher. There is so much information out there that almost all younger guys overthink everything, from workouts, to TRT protocols, to diets- keto, fasting, macros etc., and all the info on the internet about sex that it’s no wonder that guys are confused and struggling with all this.

Life isn’t that complicated, nor is staying fit. Look at the physiques of some of the old school bodybuilders and athletes of the pre Arnold era. They actually considered a healthy lifestyle as a training protocol. Wow, imagine that.

I agree with you. However I was on a simple protocol also and had little to know success. It just seems to me like age related hormone decline is much easier to treat then when it happens due to illness and other factors as you mentioned like sleep,diet and training. Like anything else in the body there is a reason it’s happining. But getting to the root cause is also a wild goose chase most of the time and it seems very hard to correct low t in younger guys naturally also.

 

[Gman86]

I think Mountain Man is probably correct for the most part. Another thing to take into consideration is that each generation is going to have more DNA disruption from all the xenoestrogens and endocrine disruptors in the environment. Our epigenetics are mostly based off of what our grandparents, and great grandparents were exposed to. So a person that’s older now, like say Mountain Man, had grandparents and great grandparents that were exposed to less, and therefore he would have less DNA disruption, and would be a little more resistant to endocrine disruptors than say me at 32. My grandparents and great grandparents are a generation ahead of his, and therefore were exposed to more endocrine disruptors, and consequently I would have more DNA dysregulation. As we know, the environment, and our food, is just getting more and more toxic. So god help the future generations. A clear example of how poor this current generation’s epigenetics are, and how much more endocrine disruption is going on, is the amount of transgenders, and people with mental illness. Increased cancer rates are also a clear example that each generation’s epigenetics are more and more susceptible than the previous.

Here’s an example of how epigenetics work. If both of your parents were gym rats their whole lives, those physical changes they made to their bodies will not greatly effect your physical genetics. However, their grandchildren, and great grandchildren will reap the benefits, and should see the positive changes to their physiques, whether it be keeping fat off easier, having more lean muscle tissue, and/or better overall bone structure/ muscle insertions. Point is, changes take around 2-3 generations to show up. If your parents have genetics to be very overweight and out of shape, but then workout like crazy and both become muscular and lean, you will unfortunately still have a perpensity to be overweight and store fat easily. Your grandchildren and greatgrandchildren, however, should have an easier time keeping the weight off.

 

[HealthMan]

37YO on TRT for almost 3 years.
50mg testosterone cypionate 2x week
400IU HCG 2x a week
40IU FSH 2x a week
0.125mg anastrozole a week
10mg DHEA daily
10mg Pregnenolone daily
500mg metformin 2x day

No blood donation (previously i had to donate every 3 months and my ferritin was close to zero). TT mid-high 700s and FT low-mid 20s at trough (labcorp ranges). SHBG mid 20s. Estradiol sensitive mid 20s (if it gets close to 30 i get gyno but that is the only side effect i get)

Weight: 204 pounds
Heigh: 6’ 2”
Body fat: 10%

I am a patient of Dr Saya.

I feel great in every single aspect. But i agree with Moutain man. TRT is not the answer for everything. There is much more to the game.

I have tried testosterone dosages as high as 180mg a week (TT as low as 600 and as high as 1400. FT as low as 19 and as high as 38). HCG dosages ranging from 300IU 3x week to 500IU 3x week. Anastrozole dosages ranging from 0.125mg a week to 0.25mg 3x a week (estradiol sensitive ranging from single digits to high 30s). DHEA dosages ranging from 10mg to 100mg a day and Pregnenolone from 10mg to 25mg a day. Also tried armour thyroid and dropped it after i added HCG (HCG is similar to TSH and in my case increased my thyroid levels a bit).

Just an update to this. I was able to stop anastrozole completely. Taking 200mg DIM every day. I might try to stop DIM is a few months.

 

[Gman86]

Just an update to this. I was able to stop anastrozole completely. Taking 200mg DIM every day. I might try to stop DIM is a few months.

Are you using HCG from Empower?

 

[HealthMan]

Are you using HCG from Empower?

Yup.

 

[HarryCat2]

Seems like most of the dialed in guys are older. Seems like the 20s and 30 year old guys have a lot more trouble getting it right.

While that may be true in general I'm 57 and have never found a protocol that got me anywhere near "dialed in" in 8 years of trying, but I've never tried T-propionate and after the recent thread on the subject I'm going to give that a shot.

 

[MarkM]

60 years old
5'10' at 185 lbs
Body fat runs 10% to 12%
Been on TRT for 14 years

Protocol:
26 mg Testosterone Cypionate ED
60 mg Pregnelone
50 mg of DHEA
No AI

LabCorp results 1/16/19:
Total T - 1092
Free T - 31.5
Estradiol Sensitive - 32.2
SHBG - 33.3
HCT - 51.0
Hb - 17.3

Ran a very large blood panel covering cardiac, inflammation, lipid, diabetic, bone/mineral, renal, hepatic, thyroid, hormones, PSA, anemia, and hematology. The most complete blood panel I have ever had run. Doctor told me that my results were fantastic for any age. I feel as good as I ever had.

Initially I was injecting E3.5 days but I could never really get my Hct to level out, whether on gels or injections. My HCT averaged almost 56 and my Hb almost 19. But I never felt bad. My numbers were very good and other than the HCT and Hb being pretty high, I was dialed in and felt great. Maybe I wasn't dialed in because the HCT and Hb were high but eveything else was right where you'd want it. At least where I wanted them.

Four months ago I decided to try daily injections to see if it would bring down my HCT and Hb and it has done so. While higher than many of you would want, I have gone from being way over the top of the range on both and that was with regular blood donations which tanked my iron and ferritin. I have had blood work 3 times since I started the daily injections and my HCT is averaging 51 and my Hb at 17.3. While still at the higher end of the range, these are much lower that what I have averaged over the previous 14 years. Plus, I have not donated blood in 9 months and my iron and ferritin have come back to good levels.

Many would say that I should not go daily because of where my SHBG sits and that E3.5 is perfect for that level of SHBG. The E3.5 protocol worked well for me I just wanted to experiment and try daily and see if that would result in lower HCT and Hb and still provide a feeling of well being, good T levels, with E2 still remaining in check.....it did for me.

 

[Gman86]

While that may be true in general I'm 57 and have never found a protocol that got me anywhere near "dialed in" in 8 years of trying, but I've never tried T-propionate and after the recent thread on the subject I'm going to give that a shot.

Also look into your thyroid. The more I learn about it, the more I realize how closely hypothyroidism mimics low testosterone. They are almost identical. Make sure to go by symptoms with thyroid, not just labs, as people can be T3 deficient on a cellular/ receptor level, regardless of labs that are all within range.

Normal Thyroid Blood Test Despite Low Thyroid Symptoms

 

[Charliebizz]

Also look into your thyroid. The more I learn about it, the more I realize how closely hypothyroidism mimics low testosterone. They are almost identical. Make sure to go by symptoms with thyroid, not just labs, as people can be T3 deficient on a cellular/ receptor level, regardless of labs that are all within range.

Normal Thyroid Blood Test Despite Low Thyroid Symptoms

I suffer from low body temp and thyroid symptoms and my labs look good. A few years ago my dr tried t3 with me within a half hour on a tiny dose I think it was 10-15 mcg I went hyper. Sweating anxiety dizzy. Didn’t budge my tempature one bit either I stayed on it for almost a month but I was in a constant state of anxiety