The longer I'm on TRT, the worse I feel. Idk what to do anymore.

[sh1973]

I can assure you in my case it certainly wasn’t placebo. I had lab verification with the same doses but again everyone’s physiology is so different. At 100mg once weekly the lab values were between 325 and 375ng difference with me and this was after several weeks on each. Symptomatically I mirrored the lab results. It’s worth a try, worst case you’ve spent more on one refill of your medication.

 

[sh1973]

I’m just using my local family doctor in the St. Louis area and getting my medication at Walgreens. Costs me about $100 per year and that’s including doctor and medicine copays. I get labs twice a year which are also covered by insurance. Can’t get much cheaper than that.

 

[Gman86]

I can assure you in my case it certainly wasn’t placebo. I had lab verification with the same doses but again everyone’s physiology is so different. At 100mg once weekly the lab values were between 325 and 375ng difference with me and this was after several weeks on each. Symptomatically I mirrored the lab results. It’s worth a try, worst case you’ve spent more on one refill of your medication.

So just to clarify, you’re saying that even with very similar lab results from both, you notice a subjective difference between the two? Or you’re saying that compounded testosterone gives you lower lab results, and that’s why you feel worse on it? I’m pretty sure you’re saying the first scenario, but just wanted to make sure. This is very interesting to me, as I’ve never heard someone say they’ve noticed a difference before. And I 100% believe you when you say it’s not placebo.

 

[jmzwy]

I would think a visit directly to Dr. Saya or someone else at defy might be worth it, whether insurance covers it or not. Maybe a full blood panel showing vitamin and mineral levels along with the typical CBC/hormone/thyroid work.

That and maybe make it a point to do some meaningful physical labor or chores every day; get yourself tired so you can sleep more regularly and get your mind off all this stuff.

 

[sh1973]

So just to clarify, you’re saying that even with very similar lab results from both, you notice a subjective difference between the two? Or you’re saying that compounded testosterone gives you lower lab results, and that’s why you feel worse on it? I’m pretty sure you’re saying the first scenario, but just wanted to make sure. This is very interesting to me, as I’ve never heard someone say they’ve noticed a difference before. And I 100% believe you when you say it’s not placebo.

Gman the labs values were over 300ng difference on both injectable and topical from compounded to pharmaceutical. I returned the topical for a refund. Not saying name of pharmacy, not on here to bash a company but for me the compounded medications were not as effective. I can also say this from the period I tried hcg. Name brand pregnyl is a whole other animal compared to compounded but again this could be my physiology. I can consistently take 100mg per week of compounded cypionate but can’t tolerate more than 60-70mg of Pfizer brand.

 

[sh1973]

To add to that reply, yes I feel subjectively better on the Pfizer brand or Westward generic as compared to compounded.

 

[HarryCat2]

@sh1973 when you were using compounded test. cyp., were you getting it in grapeseed oil or sesame seed oil?

I've also never felt as well on compounded test. cyp. as I did on generic test. cyp. in cottonseed oil.

 

[BigBamBoo]

I also find Westward brand T much more effective than the Empower compounded.

Plus, I use goodRX and get it for around $50.00 for 10ml vs the $120+ that Empower charges.

 

[antelopers]

I also never felt well on compounded t cyp from Empower in grapeseed. I am surprised how many other people had this experience since I was told my subjective feelings were placebo.

 

[sh1973]

Cottonseed oil. Never tried sesame other than in enanthate.

 

[at15]

sh1973, thats a very strong trough of 650 ng/dl on 60mg once weekly. Just keep it mind guys, for a lot of people they would be hitting that on 125-150 once weekly. Totally agree with the once weekly, been through it all. There is something about varying levels that help you to feel better. Take a look at these two graphs with two normal healthy young men. The levels are all over the place varying between 500-1000 ng/dl. Once weekly is how you can mimic these but on a weekly schedule instead of 24 hour. I think twice daily testosterone suspension would be the only way to somewhat mimic the natural rhythm. So the once weekly with cypionate or enanthate is a good trade off for ease of use.

 

[sh1973]

I honestly think I could even go a little lower. Low dose once weekly has been the only thing whatsoever that’s worked. Can’t say it will work for everyone but if someone is struggling like I did for years, what do you have to lose.

 

[Bupropion78]

Prolactin is sort of on the higher end, consistently between 13.5 to 16. Doc wants to try caber as a last resort option to see if the prolactin is what's dragging me down.

You feel worse because your nivel of prolactin are sorting the higer end; When a man has a high nivel of prolactine, he will feel very bad, testosterona will no have effect; maybe you need antiprolactin med, like, carbegolin, or bromocriptine. Another thing, prolactin is antagonist of dopamine, dopamine is a neurotransmiser of the brain, when somebody has depression, or anxiety, maybe the guilty is low nivels of dopamine. Medications pro-dopamine, like bupropion, maybe can heelp; another thing, prolactine blocks testosterone. I thik, maybe this is the problem

 

[Lokop]

You feel worse because your nivel of prolactin are sorting the higer end; When a man has a high nivel of prolactine, he will feel very bad, testosterona will no have effect; maybe you need antiprolactin med, like, carbegolin, or bromocriptine. Another thing, prolactin is antagonist of dopamine, dopamine is a neurotransmiser of the brain, when somebody has depression, or anxiety, maybe the guilty is low nivels of dopamine. Medications pro-dopamine, like bupropion, maybe can heelp; another thing, prolactine blocks testosterone. I thik, maybe this is the problem

My doc thinks so too. I have some caber on the way but I'm hesitant to use it. I never had this problem before and I want to keep my protocol as simple and natural as possible.

 

[Lokop]

sh1973, thats a very strong trough of 650 ng/dl on 60mg once weekly. Just keep it mind guys, for a lot of people they would be hitting that on 125-150 once weekly. Totally agree with the once weekly, been through it all. There is something about varying levels that help you to feel better. Take a look at these two graphs with two normal healthy young men. The levels are all over the place varying between 500-1000 ng/dl. Once weekly is how you can mimic these but on a weekly schedule instead of 24 hour. I think twice daily testosterone suspension would be the only way to somewhat mimic the natural rhythm. So the once weekly with cypionate or enanthate is a good trade off for ease of use.
View attachment 8061

How much do you take once weekly? What are your levels and shbg? What type of cyp do you take and is it pharmacy or compounded?

 

[at15]

How much do you take once weekly? What are your levels and shbg? What type of cyp do you take and is it pharmacy or compounded?

100 mg enanthate once weekly. pharmacy. trough is around 500 ng/dl, never tested my shbg. age: 29 yrs old

 

[Gman86]

Gman the labs values were over 300ng difference on both injectable and topical from compounded to pharmaceutical. I returned the topical for a refund. Not saying name of pharmacy, not on here to bash a company but for me the compounded medications were not as effective. I can also say this from the period I tried hcg. Name brand pregnyl is a whole other animal compared to compounded but again this could be my physiology. I can consistently take 100mg per week of compounded cypionate but can’t tolerate more than 60-70mg of Pfizer brand.

So you think subjective results of how you’re feeling would be similar if you took a little more of the compounded cypionate to raise total T another 300 points to match your Pfizer levels? Or do you think that even if u had the same exact levels on both, that just subjectively there’s something with pzifer brand that makes you feel better?

And there’s probably nobody on this forum that has tested out Pregnyl brand HCG more than me, and I 100% agree with you. There is a big difference between pregnyl and compounded. Not that much subjectively, but big time objectively through testicle size, total T levels and DHEA levels. It’s been a while since I was on Pregnyl, but if I remember correctly, load volume was larger, and penis was nice and full while flaccid.

 

[sebastian_r]

Test is not Test.

And brand is not brand.

I have just tested five different brands of testosterone propionate and the variance in results I get is astonishing.

Some gave me erectile disfunction, some low energy, some skin problems, some thyroid problems....and with one everything was fine.

There are things happening when injecting hormones that nobody can really explain yet.

Switching the ester, brand or oil can make all the difference in the world.

Small changes like switching from test e to test c, or switching from castor oil to grapseed oil can lead to different test, estradiol, dht, progesterone, prolactin levels....

For example test e in castor oil will hit you slower and more stable than test e in grapseed oil. It simply takes the body longer to disolve thick castor oil.

If one is sensitive for small differences in test / estradiol / dht levels, simply switching the brand can open up all kind of troubles.

If your doc tells you it's a placebo, you should run and find a doc that is interested in finding a working solution for you.

The good thing for you, you already gave yourself the possible answer to your problems in the first post.

Just try going back to what worked for you in the past.

Get some pharma test e from the same brand you used before and use the protocol that is a proven winner based on past results

 

[Gman86]

Test is not Test.

And brand is not brand.

I have just tested five different brands of testosterone propionate and the variance in results I get is astonishing.

Some gave me erectile disfunction, some low energy, some skin problems, some thyroid problems....and with one everything was fine.

There are things happening when injecting hormones that nobody can really explain yet.

Switching the ester, brand or oil can make all the difference in the world.

Small changes like switching from test e to test c, or switching from castor oil to grapseed oil can lead to different test, estradiol, dht, progesterone, prolactin levels....

For example test e in castor oil will hit you slower and more stable than test e in grapseed oil. It simply takes the body longer to disolve thick castor oil.

If one is sensitive for small differences in test / estradiol / dht levels, simply switching the brand can open up all kind of troubles.

If your doc tells you it's a placebo, you should run and find a doc that is interested in finding a working solution for you.

The good thing for you, you already gave yourself the possible answer to your problems in the first post.

Just try going back to what worked for you in the past.

Get some pharma test e from the same brand you used before and use the protocol that is a proven winner based on past results

I LOVE when guys here experiment like this. Not sure why you went through so many different brands of test, but I love that you did lol. Thanks again for posting this.

 

[S1W]

you have fallen into this online trap of doing some weird frequent dosing and using a bunch of other drugs. try simplifying things and not worrying about trt and things should improve.

Do you think EOD, daily injections, etc are all b.s.?

Just curious as to what your/others thoughts are on this as some members claim it makes all the difference for them.