Testosterone propionate for TRT

[Cataceous]

Thanks for the input. Is that regular T3 or sustained release?

This is regular T3, the Sigmapharma brand, which you said you've also used.

 

[Gman86]

This is regular T3, the Sigmapharma brand, which you said you've also used.

Yup. Sigma and mayne pharma I’ve used. Didn’t notice any difference between the two. But wasn’t using T3 long. Most of the time that I’ve been supplementing my thyroid it’s been with NDT.

 

[antelopers]

FWIW - T3 only did not change my SHBG.

Mine either. Didn't move it a single point. Up to 30mcg per day time release compounded.

 

[Gman86]

So it seems like it’s something with the T4, and/ or the T4 conversion process that raises SHBG. Or maybe when RT3 goes up, so doesn’t SHBG. Cuz my RT3 doubled on those labs.

 

[Cataceous]

... I get labs done at least like 5 times per year, and was on cyp for quite a while

Thanks for the data. I plotted some results:

Unfortunately there's not a good linear trend—too much inconsistency, with very different doses providing similar free and total testosterone (8/24, 1/25) (10/23, 2/20). The inconsistencies extend to estradiol, with the value on 10/23 seemingly completely out of place. I have no explanations for these. Without a clear linear dose-response I can't make reasonable predictions to compare to your propionate measurements.

On the plus side, the free estradiol test continues to agree very well with the calculated values when the non-sensitive total E2 test result is used:

The trend line indicates that the non-sensitive E2 test very consistently reads about 16% high. As is typical, the sensitive total E2 test has thrown out at least one completely inconsistent number (7/9).

 

[Gman86]

Thanks for the data. I plotted some results:
View attachment 8510
Unfortunately there's not a good linear trend—too much inconsistency, with very different doses providing similar free and total testosterone (8/24, 1/25) (10/23, 2/20). The inconsistencies extend to estradiol, with the value on 10/23 seemingly completely out of place. I have no explanations for these. Without a clear linear dose-response I can't make reasonable predictions to compare to your propionate measurements.

On the plus side, the free estradiol test continues to agree very well with the calculated values when the non-sensitive total E2 test result is used:
View attachment 8511
The trend line indicates that the non-sensitive E2 test very consistently reads about 16% high. As is typical, the sensitive total E2 test has thrown out at least one completely inconsistent number (7/9).

Holy $hit! Your brain is extremely impressive! Lol. You didn’t have to do all that. It’s very true though about E2 testing. Ime, testing free E2 has given me the most accurate info, and is the one E2 test I would get done if I had to only choose one. Also, ime, the standard E2 test has been much more accurate than the sens E2 test. If I were only to have gotten the sens E2 test, like everyone recommends, I would of made changes based off a completely inaccurate measurement of my E2 levels. So thank god I always get all 3 tests done each time. Just feel bad for guys that only get the sens E2 test done.

 

[bp]

I would have been skeptical of this blend idea previously, but now that I have more experience with daily propionate I'm warming up to it. Somewhat unexpectedly my testosterone numbers on propionate are showing more variation than I actually want, around +/-40% from the mean. If the idea is to mimic diurnal variation in young men then +/-20% should be the goal.

I'm glad you posted this.
ive run:
propionate only EoD
propionate only ED
propionate and cyp 40%/60% EoD

with blood work done for all protocols.

It was quite surprising the clearance rate i have for the propionate.
Even running micro doses ED the variation in the numbers was more than i desired ( as you have noted for yourself also with prop usage.)

for myself, prop only protocol doesnt seem ideal.

I'll move to a 20% prop/80%cyp protocol using ED and Eod pinning, and get the bloods done.

Ive a feeling that 20/80 (prop/cyp) is going to be about spot on for me personally.

 

[Cataceous]

I'm glad you posted this.
ive run:
propionate only EoD
propionate only ED
propionate and cyp 40%/60% EoD

with blood work done for all protocols.

It was quite surprising the clearance rate i have for the propionate.
Even running micro doses ED the variation in the numbers was more than i desired ( as you have noted for yourself also with prop usage.)

for myself, prop only protocol doesnt seem ideal.

I'll move to a 20% prop/80%cyp protocol using ED and Eod pinning, and get the bloods done.

Ive a feeling that 20/80 (prop/cyp) is going to be about spot on for me personally.

I've found that when propionate is involved the lab work is difficult to interpret. A solution I use is to estimate what average serum testosterone should be based on previous measurements when levels were static, i.e. with frequent enanthate/cypionate injections. From this you can tell where the trough is relative to the average, and estimage that the peak is a similar amount above the average.

I have switched to roughly 50% propionate and 50% enanthate, daily, which I do find to be better than daily propionate alone.

 

[Nomad]

I'm glad you posted this.
ive run:
propionate only EoD
propionate only ED
propionate and cyp 40%/60% EoD

with blood work done for all protocols.

It was quite surprising the clearance rate i have for the propionate.
Even running micro doses ED the variation in the numbers was more than i desired ( as you have noted for yourself also with prop usage.)

for myself, prop only protocol doesnt seem ideal.

I'll move to a 20% prop/80%cyp protocol using ED and Eod pinning, and get the bloods done.

Ive a feeling that 20/80 (prop/cyp) is going to be about spot on for me personally.

how much was the variance in prop only? Naturally men’s testosterone levels fluctuate peaking in the AM. The slight fluctuation is what’s making me want to try prop.

 

[antelopers]

I'm glad you posted this.
ive run:
propionate only EoD
propionate only ED
propionate and cyp 40%/60% EoD

with blood work done for all protocols.

It was quite surprising the clearance rate i have for the propionate.
Even running micro doses ED the variation in the numbers was more than i desired ( as you have noted for yourself also with prop usage.)

for myself, prop only protocol doesnt seem ideal.

I'll move to a 20% prop/80%cyp protocol using ED and Eod pinning, and get the bloods done.

Ive a feeling that 20/80 (prop/cyp) is going to be about spot on for me personally.

Can you share your labs and the variations from these protocols please

 

[Relar]

25 mg TE * 72% T_in_TE = 18 mg T
20 mg TP * 83.7% T_in_TP = 16.7 mg T
Pretty close, but it actually takes about 21.5 mg TP to equal 25 mg of TE.

Hey! Any chance you know how much Cypionate have in 100mg?
thnx in advance

 

[antelopers]

Hey! Any chance you know how much Cypionate have in 100mg?
thnx in advance

69mg of testosterone per 100mg of cyp is what is usually listed online

 

[Relar]

69mg of testosterone per 100mg of cyp is what is usually listed online

Thnx a lot!!!

 

[Cataceous]

Hey! Any chance you know how much Cypionate have in 100mg?
thnx in advance

It's closer to 70 mg (69.9).

 

[Tman]

100mg per ml it’s only 10 units on a diabetic syringe. Not sure how you could possibly inject less. It’s a tiny amount

Are you still on prop? How are you doing with it?

 

[Tman]

Wow, so there goes my theory about low SHBG guys having a hard time with propionate due to them clearing testosterone too quickly.

So it’s a little early for me to tell for sure, as I’ve only done 2 injections of prop so far, but seems that Empower’s prop is definitely giving me some PIP. It’s not too bad, but a little annoying. Nothing that would make me discontinue using it or anything. I’m injecting 35mg EOD into my outter thighs.

Are you still using prop? Curious...thinking about giving it a try.

 

[sh1973]

I am not. I had some side effects with it that made it a no go. The main side effect it caused with me was pins and needles in my hands like carpal tunnel. Dr Saya had an explanation but I don’t remember what it was. Also I have no desire to do daily dosing with anything.

 

[Tman]

I am not. I had some side effects with it that made it a no go. The main side effect it caused with me was pins and needles in my hands like carpal tunnel. Dr Saya had an explanation but I don’t remember what it was. Also I have no desire to do daily dosing with anything.

I had that same problem, when I add deca to my TRT, even at 10mg a day.

 

[Willyt]

@sh1973 - Did you find that prop caused less water retention than cypionate? That seems to be prop’s reputation in the supra-physiological world of bodybuilding, but I have no idea about the science behind it.

 

[Weasel]

@sh1973 - Did you find that prop caused less water retention than cypionate? That seems to be prop’s reputation in the supra-physiological world of bodybuilding, but I have no idea about the science behind it.

I certainly did. E2 was considerably lowered as well using prop.