Testosterone Cypionate and BPH - advice needed

[aneuman]

Hello guys,

I've been under a protocol of Enclomiphene Citrate and HCG 3 times a week. Here are the breakdown of the results:

Pros:

• Better mood. Used to have a short fuse before, now I'm more calmed. More optimistic
• Sleep has improved. Not ideal, but acceptable. Wake up many times, but manage to sleep at least 7 hours a day, before I would just sleep 3-4 hours a day and relied on Mirtazapine and Clonazepam a lot.
• BPH urinary symptoms have improve, better urine flow, less pain, no need to take Alfuzosin.

Things that have not improved:

• Orgasm
• Libido
• Fat loss (In spite of doing resistance training 4 times a week, walking 5 miles a day, and spending about 1000 calories of active calories a day)

Side effects:

• Fat in the chest area, no man boobs, but increase in subcutaneous fat in the upper chest area. included under the arms.
• Nipple sensitivity, not necessarily a bad thing, but they are permanently erect
• I believe I have some water retention, however the scale (8 electrode BIA) says my water level is 58%

I was thinking of transitioning to TRT, maybe 80mg of Testosterone Cypionate a week, divided in 2 doses of 40mg each every 3 days, but I have the following concerns:

• Possible affectation of mood, I do not want to go back to having a short fuse. Not conducive to a good marriage
• Increase in BPH-related urinary symptoms, such as increase water retention, problem urinating, pain, etc.
• The possibility of increase hematocrit to the point in which donating blood is required. I do not want to depend on that.
• Possibly increases in blood pressure above 130/90
• Anxiety, etc.

I understand that it is impossible for anyone here or anywhere to predict how I would react, but I also understand that many of you have a wealth of anecdotal evidence, personal or otherwise, that you can make use of and statistically estimate the chance of any of the undesired side effects from occurring. I release you all from liabilities associated with the advice. :-D

My current protocol is 12.5 mg of Enclomiohene Citrate + 250 IU of HCG (Pregnyl) 3 times a week. These are my latest values, all from Quest Laboratories.

Although LH and FS are not listed below, subsequent tests indicated they are both at the off of the reference range at 9 mIU/mL. Prolactin was not measured.

 

[SeaDweller]

Your in the 800’s on clomid/Hcg? Clomid can be a miserable experience. what was your T prior to that? I’m not a doctor nor is this medical advice, nonetheless I think your over thinking the potential side effects of Test Cyp at 80mg. I’d say you’d see a slight bump in LDL cholesterol and estrogen. All that other stuff I just can’t see being an issue at 80mg a week taking into consideration you’ve been playing in the 800’s with clomid/HCG with no problems. Sheeet, I don’t think 80mg would even put you in the 800’s.

 

[aneuman]

It's actually Enclomiphene, not Clomid really, and my experience has not been bad in any sense. I can tell you even more, I had to lower Enclomiphene from every day to only three days a week. When I was taking it everyday it would put me in 1200 ng/dL in 3 months and my LH would go to 20! Using Enclomiphene alone 3 days a week (without HCG) put me on 677, but the subjective feeling was meh... so I added low dose HCG (250IU) and things have improved in the sense I mentioned above, particularly mood.
Here are the values on Enclomiphene 12.5 mg every day

My levels prior to the treatment were around 300-400.

I really hate the fat in the chest area, particularly on the sides close to the armspit. Nipple sensitivity is distracting too. Not having libido and extremely weak orgasms is a killer. Erection is fine with 5 mg Cialis every day which I take for BPH.

My goal is not a particular number, more like a subjective feeling and overall health. I'm 60 years old so I don't have much time to correct mistakes, that's why I'm asking prior to embarking in this journey.

Thanks a lot for your comments

 

[aneuman]

Is there anyone around with BPH than can comment on their experience with Testosterone Cypionate or any other delivery method for TRT and how they fared on that topic?

I don't want to get sidetracked, so I'll repeat my original question

I was thinking of transitioning to TRT, maybe 80mg of Testosterone Cypionate a week, divided in 2 doses of 40mg each every 3 days, but I have the following concerns:

• Possible affectation of mood, I do not want to go back to having a short fuse. Not conducive to a good marriage
• Increase in BPH-related urinary symptoms, such as increase water retention, problem urinating, pain, etc.
• The possibility of increase hematocrit to the point in which donating blood is required. I do not want to depend on that.
• Possibly increases in blood pressure above 130/90
• Anxiety, etc.

Thanks

 

[Systemlord]

Increase in BPH-related urinary symptoms, such as increase water retention, problem urinating, pain, etc.

You could kill to birds with one stone, Tamsulosin is used to treat high blood pressure and BPH. The anxiety may be the result of increase blood pressure and therefore unstable mood.

 

[JmarkH]

I had horrible side effects from Tamsulosin. It was like every side effect listed had my name on it. I've never had to go the the restroom so often in my life and the drip drip.
I'm happy for those it works for but for me, never again.

 

[Systemlord]

I had horrible side effects from Tamsulosin

Tamsulosin typically has lowest side effects compared to other alpha blockers. I haven’t had one single side effect since starting days ago.

 

[aneuman]

Couple of things. I don’t have high blood pressure, I don’t need tamsulosin as of now. My question is:

anybody with bph on this forum who is on trt? Any worsening of symptoms?

 

[JimGainz]

I had BPH a few years before TRT. I don’t anymore. Taking cypianate at physiological doses did not bring back BPH. My PSA is around 1, and ironically, it was 0.6 when I had BPH.

daily cialis does wonders for BPH by the way.

also, I don’t thing the effect on the prostate has much to do with the compound (unless you were taking a dht derivative). A testosterone level of 800, whether from a shot of Test cyp, or from clomid, would do the same thing - except that the shot is way better in just about every respect. I think your approach is sound - try 80mg split into two doses, and assess from there.

 

[Jed Dorsey]

55 yrs old and yes I’m on TRT with BPH when it flares up. You’re right in concerning yourself with it because testosterone gos straight to the prostate. My PSA runs high 4.3 but I keep an eye on it. I’m currently on 150 mg a week of Test and no urinary symptoms but when I try to increase Test dose for the gym my BPH symptoms return and quickly so I back off again.
Since I love going to the gym I added Nandrolone not only for its joint pain benefit but for its anabolic effects on muscle and the best thing about it it doesn’t mess with the prostate.
I think you’ll be good at 80mg of Test and if not like I said before you’ll know it really quickly if you don’t. Good luck man

 

[aneuman]

I had BPH a few years before TRT. I don’t anymore. Taking cypianate at physiological doses did not bring back BPH. My PSA is around 1, and ironically, it was 0.6 when I had BPH.

Thant's great! Your PSA is really low, mine is closer to 3, and the volume according to the latest ultrasound was quite bid.

daily cialis does wonders for BPH by the way.

That's what I'm taking and keeps things under control

also, I don’t thing the effect on the prostate has much to do with the compound (unless you were taking a dht derivative). A testosterone level of 800, whether from a shot of Test cyp, or from clomid, would do the same thing - except that the shot is way better in just about every respect. I think your approach is sound - try 80mg split into two doses, and assess from there.

One thing I noticed is that after being on EC+HCG for a while and keeping my T around 7-800, my urinary symptoms suddenly improved. It could be T, it could be HCG itself, I don't know, and that's why I was concerned about T.Cyp making things worse.

That's what I'd probably end up doing. 80 mg a week and take it from there.

Thanks!

 

[aneuman]

55 yrs old and yes I’m on TRT with BPH when it flares up. You’re right in concerning yourself with it because testosterone gos straight to the prostate. My PSA runs high 4.3 but I keep an eye on it.

How long have you been on TRT? Did you start before having BPH or after? My PSA is around 2.8 and I would not like to have all those pesky urinary symptoms.

Curiously, all these symptoms started when my T was really low, around 200-300 and were really bad. Cialis daily helped a lot, but after being on EC+HCG for a while, suddenly my stream became stronger, no hesitation and no dribbling. No pain either. I'm not sure exactly what to attribute this to, it could be the higher T for some time, it could be some lifestyle changes that I'm not aware of (like eating more whey protein, or working our harder)

I’m currently on 150 mg a week of Test and no urinary symptoms but when I try to increase Test dose for the gym my BPH symptoms return and quickly so I back off again.

Interesting, that gives me hope that at 150mg you're not having symptoms. Congratulations!

One question, do you inject sub-q or IM? I'm not sure if it matters, but it's my understanding that sub-q lowers the peak creating a more subtle increase in T, which may be responsible for not creating BPH symptoms, just saying.

Since I love going to the gym I added Nandrolone not only for its joint pain benefit but for its anabolic effects on muscle and the best thing about it it doesn’t mess with the prostate.

I'm not sure my doctor will be willing to prescribe Nandrolone, and too much of a chicken to do it on my own :-D

I think you’ll be good at 80mg of Test and if not like I said before you’ll know it really quickly if you don’t. Good luck man

Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply to my thread.

Good luck t you too.

 

[Jed Dorsey]

Been on TRT for appx 5 years and learned about my BPH a year into TRT. I don’t blame my testosterone use for it my father struggled with BPH in his 50 too but I will say that testosterone does exacerbate it. I do IM have been since I started

 

[aneuman]

Been on TRT for appx 5 years and learned about my BPH a year into TRT. I don’t blame my testosterone use for it my father struggled with BPH in his 50 too but I will say that testosterone does exacerbate it. I do IM have been since I started

Oh I know, My dad, my grandpa, my two uncles all on my father side of the family had BPH and ended up having surgery, so I knew that was going to happen. It was detected when I was 43, so it's been a while.

My main concern is exacerbation of the symptoms. I have noticed that low dose HCG 3 times a week makes me urinate better, almost no pain. I would hate to go back to where I was before.

Also, I've heard a lot about hematocrits going high and I'd like to avoid that too. My current protocol, numbers wise is fantastic, symptoms wise is okay in some areas as I said

Thanks again for taking the time.

 

[aneuman]

It seems that the HCG things I noticed could be a thing

Effect of low dose human chorionic gonadotropin on the symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia

 

[Razor22]

It seems that the HCG things I noticed could be a thing

Effect of low dose human chorionic gonadotropin on the symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia

I read the portion of the study attached. I would like to see the entire article, but have not had the luck to get to it via my phone screen.
What dosage/ frequency did the use?
I will try to get the study via laptop later, just asking it it was there and I couldn't find it.

 

[sammmy]

Your side effects like water retention and not being able to drop fat may be due to HCG. I would run a few months without it and see how it goes, before you jump on TRT.

Truly hypogonadal people often have resolution of their sexual symptoms on less than "optimal" levels of testosterone. And targeting the upper end of "normal" at your trough frequently means you are overdoing it and it may lead to paradoxical worsening of your sexuality.

I've had total T that was 3 times above the normal range (on gel) and it felt exactly "meh...". I actually thought I had a very low testosterone, before doing the test. So testosterone seems to have a U-shaped response curve. Too little, or too much are equally bad.

 

[Keepfit1]

Is there anyone around with BPH than can comment on their experience with Testosterone Cypionate or any other delivery method for TRT and how they fared on that topic?

I don't want to get sidetracked, so I'll repeat my original question

I was thinking of transitioning to TRT, maybe 80mg of Testosterone Cypionate a week, divided in 2 doses of 40mg each every 3 days, but I have the following concerns:

• Possible affectation of mood, I do not want to go back to having a short fuse. Not conducive to a good marriage
• Increase in BPH-related urinary symptoms, such as increase water retention, problem urinating, pain, etc.
• The possibility of increase hematocrit to the point in which donating blood is required. I do not want to depend on that.
• Possibly increases in blood pressure above 130/90
• Anxiety, etc.

Thanks

like someone else said 80mg is lowish dose so you might not get any neg sides and you may feel better eg less anxious, you could always try it , I am on 30mg Cyp and 70 Androgel, none of the probs you mentioned except BPH but its the DHT from the Androgel causing BPH mainly

 

[aneuman]

Your side effects like water retention and not being able to drop fat may be due to HCG. I would run a few months without it and see how it goes, before you jump on TRT.

It may very well be. I was expecting to get my next labs done and then drop everything for a month or so and see how it goes.

I'm not really sure if my symptoms are caused by EC or HCG. I'm using low dose of both (EC 12.5 mg + HCG 250 IU M-W-F) but maybe the combination itself is too much.

Truly hypogonadal people often have resolution of their sexual symptoms on less than "optimal" levels of testosterone. And targeting the upper end of "normal" at your trough frequently means you are overdoing it and it may lead to paradoxical worsening of your sexuality.

Interesting. I was around 300-400 before starting any treatment and things were really bad, mostly arousal and orgasm, both absolutely gone. Then started with HCG at 2000 IU a week (one shot) and for 3 weeks life was great, like 25 again, then things started to go down again, in spite of the numbers going up and being "optimal", though not as bad as before.

You may be right, maybe I should not pursuit 700 or 800, but 500-600 would make me feel better. Would it be possible to get this number with T-Cyp, maybe 60 mg a week or something like that?

I've had total T that was 3 times above the normal range (on gel) and it felt exactly "meh...". I actually thought I had a very low testosterone, before doing the test. So testosterone seems to have a U-shaped response curve. Too little, or too much are equally bad.

Wow! 3 times normal, that's high. How do you feel now, mostly in terms of arousal and orgasm? I'm also concerned about hematocrits and hemoglobin...

Any advice is welcome.

Thanks for taking the time.

 

[aneuman]

I read the portion of the study attached. I would like to see the entire article, but have not had the luck to get to it via my phone screen.
What dosage/ frequency did the use?
I will try to get the study via laptop later, just asking it it was there and I couldn't find it.

Unfortunately I do not access to the full article, just the abstract. Here are the results and conclusions:

Results: Low dose HCG appeared to positively effect moderate to severe BPH symptoms according to American Urological Association scores and sexual function but not peak urinary flow. No HCG induced changes were noted in prostate specific antigen or prostate volume.

Conclusions: These findings suggest that HCG may provide a well tolerated and beneficial therapy for BPH that will be investigated in subsequent studies.

No dosage is specified in the study though but according to my research, low dose is considered anything between 250-500 IU

I'm using Pregnyl 250 IU 3 times a week (M-W-F) for a total of 750 IU/week. What I have noticed is that I do not need to take Alfuzosin anymore and I could even reduce Cialis 5 mg to 3 times a week without negative effects while maintaining a string flow and almost no pain.

It may be too early to tell though, as I have been using this dosage for a while and this is a relatively recent development. I'll keep you posted.