Target Free T Levels

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

By the way, for anyone not already bored reading this thread, i’m going to put my money on estrogen. I’m still waiting for my sensitive test to come back, but I suspect I crashed it. Will post when I get it!

I still to this day do not understand why people continue to take these type of anti estrogenic drugs. Why would you take a drug, a toxic compound not naturally produced by the body, and expect anything positive to come out of it? Nebivolol would also be on that list, but having been harmed by big pharma drugs in the past, I now steer clear of anything that isn’t naturally found in the body.

 

[sibuk]

Gentlemen,

My free T (details below) is in the middle of normal range per Quest. But, I feel really sluggish and I am working on figuring out (a) why? and, (b) how to treat it?

I am trying to get a sense of where most guys feel "optimal" relative to their free T. I know there are a myriad of factors to consider (thus the contents of much of this forum), but for now, I am focusing on free T.

I have searched for a while and can't find a thread that specifically focuses on what free T levels guys are targeting and where they feel best. If this thread exists, please excuse my inadequate search capabilities! If not, feel free to share any correlation you have found between free T and how you feel.

I realize there are tons of discussions on simply how to measure free T, which may make this conversation harder. My lab results don't indicate how the numbers were derived and I'm not 100% sure how they were ordered, but the lab was Quest.

Recent Quest labs:

• Total T 921 ng/dL (250-827)
• Albumin 4.2 g/dL (3.6-5.1)
• SHBG 32 nmol/L (10-50)
• Free T 150.1 pg/mL (46-224)
• Bioavailable T 289.1 mg/dL (110-575)
• Estradiol, Ultrasensitive Pending

Background:

• These are fasting, first thing in the morning levels 1 day after 50mg Xyosted (so, peak levels)
• I had been on 50mg Xyosted every 4-5 days for about three weeks prior to labs
• I (I think regrettably) took 0.125mg of anastrazole several times around the time I injected
• I have generally been on hCG throughout most of my TRT life, but have been mostly off it in the last 5 weeks, with a few doses here and there (but not for several weeks prior to these labs)

I currently feel really, really tired. Mood is lowish. Libido poor. I have a suspicion the culprit may be the one missing lab (E2) and will report back when I get it. I suspect I bottomed out my E2.

That said, assuming my E2 comes back looking appropriate, I may consider trying to manipulate my TRT to manipulate my free T. The problem is, I am not sure if I should push it up or down. In general, I have follow the "less is more" principal. But, I have been supraphysiologic and have never felt this tired before. Generally, when I am really supra, I feel anxious, but not tired. By the way, hemoglobin is normal (I am not anemic).

On the other hand, I am in the middle of the normal range for free T, so I wouldn't expect to feel this kind of fatigue.

Cutting to the chase: if there is a way to compare apples to apples between labs and techniques, where do you like your free T? Where do you feel best relative to your free T?

Edit: for what it’s worth, I felt pretty darn good the day I got my labs and the following day. To confound matters, I happened to inject hCG right after getting those labs and the following day. I have no idea if it was the testosterone levels that were elevated from the hCG or some type of direct effect of hCG that made me feel good those two days, but by the third day of hCG, I felt like the hCG was a little too much, so I backed off. The point I’m making is that I felt good despite my total testosterone levels being as high as it was.

[Changes in % free testosterone and sex-hormone binding globulin during danazol administration] - PubMed

To clarify the androgen balance on the administration of danazol a study was conducted on the levels of % free testosterone (% free T) and sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) during the therapy and the binding properties of danazol to SHBG and androgen receptor. It was found that danazol...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[sibuk]

[Changes in % free testosterone and sex-hormone binding globulin during danazol administration] - PubMed

To clarify the androgen balance on the administration of danazol a study was conducted on the levels of % free testosterone (% free T) and sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) during the therapy and the binding properties of danazol to SHBG and androgen receptor. It was found that danazol...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It takes only less than 1 mg to increase free testosterone threefold for me.
And free testosterone is the key.

 

[thatcarnarn]

Definitely look into Thyroid. TSH, T3, RT3

 

[Cataceous]

[Changes in % free testosterone and sex-hormone binding globulin during danazol administration] - PubMed

To clarify the androgen balance on the administration of danazol a study was conducted on the levels of % free testosterone (% free T) and sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) during the therapy and the binding properties of danazol to SHBG and androgen receptor. It was found that danazol...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It takes only less than 1 mg to increase free testosterone threefold for me.
And free testosterone is the key.

The abstract of this old study says that free testosterone as a percent of total increased. This could be explained by a drop in total testosterone caused by the reduction in SHBG and danazol's competitive inhibition of testosterone at remaining SHBG. Are there any newer danazol studies that measure free testosterone by equilibrium dialysis? It seems unlikely that danazol has significant influence on steady-state free testosterone in men on TRT—unless it is able to interfere with testosterone metabolism in the liver.

The situation is more complicated in men with functional HPTAs: There are plausible mechanisms for danazol to either increase or decrease testosterone production, thus affecting free testosterone. On the one hand, danazol "... is characterized as a weak androgen and anabolic steroid, a weak progestogen, a weak antigonadotropin, a weak steroidogenesis inhibitor ..." These suggest HPTA suppression. On the other hand, it's also considered "a functional antiestrogen."[R] This suggests HPTA stimulation. A study cited by Wikipedia implies that the suppressive behavior prevails, at least with higher doses—a 600 mg daily dose "inhibited gonadotropins" in men.

 

[sibuk]

The abstract of this old study says that free testosterone as a percent of total increased. This could be explained by a drop in total testosterone caused by the reduction in SHBG and danazol's competitive inhibition of testosterone at remaining SHBG. Are there any newer danazol studies that measure free testosterone by equilibrium dialysis? It seems unlikely that danazol has significant influence on steady-state free testosterone in men on TRT—unless it is able to interfere with testosterone metabolism in the liver.

The situation is more complicated in men with functional HPTAs: There are plausible mechanisms for danazol to either increase or decrease testosterone production, thus affecting free testosterone. On the one hand, danazol "... is characterized as a weak androgen and anabolic steroid, a weak progestogen, a weak antigonadotropin, a weak steroidogenesis inhibitor ..." These suggest HPTA suppression. On the other hand, it's also considered "a functional antiestrogen."[R] This suggests HPTA stimulation. A study cited by Wikipedia implies that the suppressive behavior prevails, at least with higher doses—a 600 mg daily dose "inhibited gonadotropins"

The abstract of this old study says that free testosterone as a percent of total increased. This could be explained by a drop in total testosterone caused by the reduction in SHBG and danazol's competitive inhibition of testosterone at remaining SHBG. Are there any newer danazol studies that measure free testosterone by equilibrium dialysis? It seems unlikely that danazol has significant influence on steady-state free testosterone in men on TRT—unless it is able to interfere with testosterone metabolism in the liver.

The situation is more complicated in men with functional HPTAs: There are plausible mechanisms for danazol to either increase or decrease testosterone production, thus affecting free testosterone. On the one hand, danazol "... is characterized as a weak androgen and anabolic steroid, a weak progestogen, a weak antigonadotropin, a weak steroidogenesis inhibitor ..." These suggest HPTA suppression. On the other hand, it's also considered "a functional antiestrogen."[R] This suggests HPTA stimulation. A study cited by Wikipedia implies that the suppressive behavior prevails, at least with higher doses—a 600 mg daily dose "inhibited gonadotropins" in men.

For my doc it was quite simple, i SHBG was high and with Less than 1 mg DANAZOL my free testosterone more than doubled and the effects are very noticeable. I typically take three times a week.

 

[tareload]

For my doc it was quite simple, i SHBG was high and with Less than 1 mg DANAZOL my free testosterone more than doubled and the effects are very noticeable. I typically take three times a week.

Post the blood work before and after with results qualified based on timing of T administration if you please.

Also type of assay for TT/fT or calculated fT?