T vs HCG, and how that effects Estrogen production

[HR_Watson]

Hi all,

My apologies for what might be a redundant question - I've read so many threads and stickies, but I can't find a clear answer.

Why does HCG raise E levels more than T supplementation? Does HGC actually raise E more than T supplementation?

It's my understanding that regardless of the source (T, or HCG), there will always be some conversion of excess Testosterone into Estrogen - however, reading through various threads on here, it seems that most people believe that this happens less with supplemented T, vs HCG.

Asking, as I'm currently on HCG monotherapy, and the benefits are amazing. The only downside is that I've developed puffy nipples. Anastrozole made me feel awful, added tons of side effects, so that's not an option. I'm clearly a strong responder - my T levels jumped from 300ish to 1000ish, just on HCG and lifestyle adjustments alone.

Thanks!

 

[FeelingLost]

Hi watson, wow good HCG story. I'm no doc and just learning myself but here is what I think is happening to you. If HCG raised your TT to over 1000 alot of that is being converted to E2 and prolactin. My guess is your numbers are way over the top of the scale. Been there done this.
Both cause puffy nipples and if you don't get your E2 and prolactin down you will probably get gyno. As far as I know HCG can not convert to E2 it only signals your ball to make more T and sperm.

 

[CSI007]

HCG stimulates the testicles to make testosterone. E2 conversion happens more easily in the testicles then free floating in the rest of the body. Or so I have been told.

What kind of protocol are you doing with the HCG? Might be a good idea to cut back on your injection amounts to reduce your T levels. When I cut my HCG down from 400 to 200iu twice a week it lowered my E2 from the upper 60s to down to the mid 40s in 8 weeks without affecting my T levels. Keep in mind I am also injecting T too.

 

[johndoesmith]

Hi watson, wow good HCG story. I'm no doc and just learning myself but here is what I think is happening to you. If HCG raised your TT to over 1000 alot of that is being converted to E2 and prolactin. My guess is your numbers are way over the top of the scale. Been there done this.
Both cause puffy nipples and if you don't get your E2 and prolactin down you will probably get gyno. As far as I know HCG can not convert to E2 it only signals your ball to make more T and sperm.

Testosterone does not convert to prolactin.

 

[FeelingLost]

Testosterone does not convert to prolactin.

Prolactin does seem to go up when E2 goes up. Both can cause gyno if not reduced.
Here is one of my first blood test when starting TRT mono.
I had to wear bandaids on my nipples because my cotton tee shirts hurt.

 

[Vince Carter]

HCG stimulates the testicles to make testosterone. E2 conversion happens more easily in the testicles then free floating in the rest of the body. Or so I have been told.

To expound on this the aromatase that occurs in the testicular environment an AI is less effective too so directly stimulating the testes with HCG mono doses would make sense that you're getting a simultaneous rise in E. There isn't a lot of success in HCG mono and yes while T can go up, you're kind of seeing the downside to it, too.

 

[johndoesmith]

Prolactin does seem to go up when E2 goes up. Both can cause gyno if not reduced.
Here is one of my first blood test when starting TRT mono.
I had to wear bandaids on my nipples because my cotton tee shirts hurt.

You're probably correct, I do recall reading somewhere that elevated E2 and elevated prolactin are linked, but Testosterone is NOT converted to prolactin.

Prolactin can cause gyno as well as E2. I was just making a technical distinction, not to be a know it all or anything, but just so that when new guys are reading the forum, they don't think Testosterone converts into prolactin.

Also if you're concerned about E2, you should always get the sensitive test, but I am sure you know that.

 

[FeelingLost]

You're probably correct, I do recall reading somewhere that elevated E2 and elevated prolactin are linked, but Testosterone is NOT converted to prolactin.

Prolactin can cause gyno as well as E2. I was just making a technical distinction, not to be a know it all or anything, but just so that when new guys are reading the forum, they don't think Testosterone converts into prolactin.

Also if you're concerned about E2, you should always get the sensitive test, but I am sure you know that.

I agree, Testosterone is NOT converted to prolactin. I should have said that in my second post. I ment to say it goes up with E2.
I left that doctor after that blood test. I am now with Defy and get the sens tests thru them.

 

[ZoomyR6]

Prolactin does seem to go up when E2 goes up. Both can cause gyno if not reduced.
Here is one of my first blood test when starting TRT mono.
I had to wear bandaids on my nipples because my cotton tee shirts hurt.

When I was taking hcg with T before taking an AI, my e2 was about 130 and I never had physical symptoms like that. I wonder why this is.

 

[madman]

Hi all,

My apologies for what might be a redundant question - I've read so many threads and stickies, but I can't find a clear answer.

Why does HCG raise E levels more than T supplementation? Does HGC actually raise E more than T supplementation?

It's my understanding that regardless of the source (T, or HCG), there will always be some conversion of excess Testosterone into Estrogen - however, reading through various threads on here, it seems that most people believe that this happens less with supplemented T, vs HCG.

Asking, as I'm currently on HCG monotherapy, and the benefits are amazing. The only downside is that I've developed puffy nipples. Anastrozole made me feel awful, added tons of side effects, so that's not an option. I'm clearly a strong responder - my T levels jumped from 300ish to 1000ish, just on HCG and lifestyle adjustments alone.

Thanks!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC179885/

Basically hcg mimics lh which stimulates the leydig cells in the testes to synthesize iTT (intra testiscular testosterone)

Leydig cells express aromatase (P450arom) as well as germ cells and possibly spermatozoa. The testes are a major source of aromatization in men.

Estrogen in men is essential for modulating libido,erectile function,and spermatogenesis as well as bone health.

Estrogen receptors and aromatase are abundant in brain,penis,testes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854098/

 

[madman]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC179885/figure/F2/

 

[HR_Watson]

Thanks Madman that answeres my questions exactly.

I'm not really seeing any negatives from the HCG, the positives are overwhelming. My libido has returned, my mood and energy levels are great. It's just that when I increased the dosage from 1500 to 2000 weekly, I really saw benefits - but started to experience the puffy nipples. I'd love to figure out a way to feel as good as I did on 2000 a week without the sides. When I added Anastrozole to the mix, it didn't help, but made things much, much worse.

I'm back down to 1500 weekly, and the gyno is resolving - but I just don't feel quite as great as I did at the higher dosage. I may have to be content with this for the time being, as adding testosterone isn't an option right now.