Switching From Oral Test to Test Cypionate

[Ethan@50]

Hello,

I tried Kyzatrex at 200mg twice a day for a total of 400mg a day but it only got my total Test to 419. According to their titration guide, I would need 2x200mg twice a day for a total of 800mg a day which becomes cost prohibitive for me. So I have decided to try Test Cypionate instead which will be much more affordable. I have some questions I hope you all could answer for me.

What is a good starting dose to take weekly split over 2 injections per week? I'm 50 years old, 175 lbs, 5'11". Total Test 416 (250-1100), Free Test 66.8 (35.0-155.0) while on 400mg Kyzatrex a day.

How long should I wait after starting the Test Cypionate to get my labs done and see if the dose is correct? One month?

How long after my injection do I wait to have my blood drawn? Hours, days? So if the injection was on a Monday at 8am, when ideally should I have my blood drawn?

Thanks very much in advance!

 

[madman]

Hello,

I tried Kyzatrex at 200mg twice a day for a total of 400mg a day but it only got my total Test to 419. According to their titration guide, I would need 2x200mg twice a day for a total of 800mg a day which becomes cost prohibitive for me. So I have decided to try Test Cypionate instead which will be much more affordable. I have some questions I hope you all could answer for me.

What is a good starting dose to take weekly split over 2 injections per week? I'm 50 years old, 175 lbs, 5'11". Total Test 416 (250-1100), Free Test 66.8 (35.0-155.0) while on 400mg Kyzatrex a day.

How long should I wait after starting the Test Cypionate to get my labs done and see if the dose is correct? One month?

How long after my injection do I wait to have my blood drawn? Hours, days? So if the injection was on a Monday at 8am, when ideally should I have my blood drawn?

Thanks very much in advance!

Always best to start low and go slow on a T only protocol as we want to see how your body reacts to testosterone and where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) will have your trough TT, FT and estradiol let alone other critical blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit.

There will always be time to eventually add in hCG or increase your T dose if need be.

Patience is key here!

Most men are injecting 100-200 mg T/week whether once weekly or split into more frequent injections as in twice-weekly (every 3.5 days), M/W/F, EOD or daily.

Majority of men can easily achieve a healthy let alone high trough FT injecting 100-150 mg T/week especially when split into more frequent injections.

Yes there are some outliers who may need the higher-end dose 200 mg T/week but it is far from common as in RARE!

Common starting dose is 100 mg T/week or better yet 50 mg T injected twice-weekly (every 3.5 days).

Need to wait 4-6 weeks (TC/TE) for blood levels to stabilize due to the half-life of the esterified T.

We always want to test at the true trough (lowest point) before your next injection.

If you are injecting Monday morning 8 am and Thursday evening 8 pm then the most sensible time to get blood work done would be Monday morning just before your 8 am injection.




Your previous thread!

Current Defy Medical Restart Protocol

Does anyone know what the current Defy Medical restart protocol looks like? The most recent I could find was from 2021: STOP T Cyp BEGIN HCG 500 iu TIW x 2 weeks then stop BEGIN Enclomiphene 25mg by mouth Daily M-F x 12 weeks then stop CONT Anastrozole 0.2 mg twice weekly, discontinue at end...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Systemlord]

How long should I wait after starting the Test Cypionate to get my labs done and see if the dose is correct? One month?

Most will tell you 4-6 weeks, 8 weeks is prefered. I have always noticed at the 8 week mark I always see a 100 ng/dL decrease whether on injectable testosterone or Jatenzo.

 

[Ethan@50]

Always best to start low and go slow on a T only protocol as we want to see how your body reacts to testosterone and where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) will have your trough TT, FT and estradiol let alone other critical blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit.

There will always be time to eventually add in hCG or increase your T dose if need be.

Patience is key here!

Most men are injecting 100-200 mg T/week whether once weekly or split into more frequent injections as in twice-weekly (every 3.5 days), M/W/F, EOD or daily.

Majority of men can easily achieve a healthy let alone high trough FT injecting 100-150 mg T/week especially when split into more frequent injections.

Yes there are some outliers who may need the higher-end dose 200 mg T/week but it is far from common as in RARE!

Common starting dose is 100 mg T/week or better yet 50 mg T injected twice-weekly (every 3.5 days).

Need to wait 4-6 weeks (TC/TE) for blood levels to stabilize due to the half-life of the esterified T.

We always want to test at the true trough (lowest point) before your next injection.

If you are injecting Monday morning 8 am and Thursday evening 8 pm then the most sensible time to get blood work done would be Monday morning just before your 8 am injection.




Your previous thread!

Current Defy Medical Restart Protocol

Does anyone know what the current Defy Medical restart protocol looks like? The most recent I could find was from 2021: STOP T Cyp BEGIN HCG 500 iu TIW x 2 weeks then stop BEGIN Enclomiphene 25mg by mouth Daily M-F x 12 weeks then stop CONT Anastrozole 0.2 mg twice weekly, discontinue at end...

www.excelmale.com

madman,
I cannot thank you enough for this information! This is exactly what I needed to understand and you explained it perfectly. I sincerely appreciate your input. You are a wealth of knowledge!

 

[Ethan@50]

Most will tell you 4-6 weeks, 8 weeks is prefered. I have always noticed at the 8 week mark I always see a 100 ng/dL decrease whether on injectable testosterone or Jatenzo.

Thanks very much for your input Systemlord!

 

[Ethan@50]

Always best to start low and go slow on a T only protocol as we want to see how your body reacts to testosterone and where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) will have your trough TT, FT and estradiol let alone other critical blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit.

There will always be time to eventually add in hCG or increase your T dose if need be.

Patience is key here!

Most men are injecting 100-200 mg T/week whether once weekly or split into more frequent injections as in twice-weekly (every 3.5 days), M/W/F, EOD or daily.

Majority of men can easily achieve a healthy let alone high trough FT injecting 100-150 mg T/week especially when split into more frequent injections.

Yes there are some outliers who may need the higher-end dose 200 mg T/week but it is far from common as in RARE!

Common starting dose is 100 mg T/week or better yet 50 mg T injected twice-weekly (every 3.5 days).

Need to wait 4-6 weeks (TC/TE) for blood levels to stabilize due to the half-life of the esterified T.

We always want to test at the true trough (lowest point) before your next injection.

If you are injecting Monday morning 8 am and Thursday evening 8 pm then the most sensible time to get blood work done would be Monday morning just before your 8 am injection.




Your previous thread!

Current Defy Medical Restart Protocol

Does anyone know what the current Defy Medical restart protocol looks like? The most recent I could find was from 2021: STOP T Cyp BEGIN HCG 500 iu TIW x 2 weeks then stop BEGIN Enclomiphene 25mg by mouth Daily M-F x 12 weeks then stop CONT Anastrozole 0.2 mg twice weekly, discontinue at end...

www.excelmale.com

madman,
May I ask you what total T and free T trough levels should I be aiming for to tell my dose is dialed in? Thank you!

 

[ignition]

Hello,

I tried Kyzatrex at 200mg twice a day for a total of 400mg a day but it only got my total Test to 419. According to their titration guide, I would need 2x200mg twice a day for a total of 800mg a day which becomes cost prohibitive for me. So I have decided to try Test Cypionate instead which will be much more affordable. I have some questions I hope you all could answer for me.

What is a good starting dose to take weekly split over 2 injections per week? I'm 50 years old, 175 lbs, 5'11". Total Test 416 (250-1100), Free Test 66.8 (35.0-155.0) while on 400mg Kyzatrex a day.

How long should I wait after starting the Test Cypionate to get my labs done and see if the dose is correct? One month?

How long after my injection do I wait to have my blood drawn? Hours, days? So if the injection was on a Monday at 8am, when ideally should I have my blood drawn?

Thanks very much in advance!

Are you aware of the lab draw timing issue with Kyzatrex, that there are peaks and troughs, and that your T numbers will fluctuate widely through a 24 hour period? TT 416 and Free 66.8 are just fine in terms of midpoint or low end of the daily swing in blood levels.

You also did not state that you had negative symptoms on Kyzatrex.

I thought the cost was the same regardless of dose. I am very interested since I am trying to get off of injections in order to get on Kyzatrex. How are you obtaining, through a local doctor/provider, telehealth or??

 

[Systemlord]

May I ask you what total T and free T trough levels should I be aiming for to tell my dose is dialed in?

At what Free T level do you feel optimal?

As the thread title says, I want to compile a consensus and see at what Free T levels our members feel optimal. Please specify if levels are at trough, midpoint or peak. Also detail protocol and time of lab testing in relation to your injections. These poll questions are for Free T only either...

www.excelmale.com

• Above normal​

  Votes: 10 45.5%

• High normal or top 25% percentile​

  Votes: 5 22.7%

• Mid-range​

  Votes: 6 27.3%

• Low normal or bottom 25% percentile​

  Votes: 1 4.5%

The results of the poll shows 68.2% of men on ExcelMale feel their best at the top end or above it.

 

[madman]

madman,
May I ask you what total T and free T trough levels should I be aiming for to tell my dose is dialed in? Thank you!

Keep in mind that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

Although it is important to know where your trough FT level sits symptom relief is what truly matters.

What level you need to hit would be through trial and error.

Every individual is different as some men will feel good running a mid-range trough whereas others may need a high-end trough to reap the full benefits.

Many tend to aim for a higher-end let alone high trough.

Some will even venture into the absurd territory but that is usually the ones caught up on that more T is better mentality being pushed by those dime a dozen run of the mill T-clinics, so called men's health forums loaded with all those blast n cruizzzers polluting the internet let alone those so called gurus littered on the forums/Gootube!

Unfortunately many men are overmedicated running levels well beyond their genetic set-point.

The goal here is to achieve a healthy trough FT.

Just to put this in perspective most healthy young males would be hitting a FT 10 ng/dL tested using the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis assay (most accurate) or a cFTV 13-15 ng/dL and this is a short-lived peak to boot!

Trough would be 20-25% lower.

More importantly a FT in the low 20s whether cFTV or standardized ED assay would be very high!

Everyone needs to hammer it in their heads that a trough FT 30 ng/dL is absurdly high.

We are talking f**king TROUGH here too not peak!

Unfortunately many are caught up aiming for that super high FT 30+ ng/dL and this is troughs we are talking about here.

Again big difference between one hitting a very high trough FT 30 ng/dL injecting once weekly vs EOD or daily!

Critical to always pay attention to injection frequency/trough FT level.

Yes many may very well feel better overall running higher-end/high trough FT levels but it is far from a given.

As I have stated numerous times on the forum running too high a FT can be just as bad as running too low a FT in many ways especially when it comes to liibido, erectile function and mood!

Hammering your dopamine from running too high a steady-state/trough FT can easily backfire on you in the long-run.

Everyone has a genetic set-point and unfortunately many end up blowing well beyond it due to being caught upon that more T is better mentality!

Just to be clear here I see no issue if one chooses to run a high-end/high trough FT within reason especially if blood markers are healthy, minus any sides and they feel great overall.

Yes symptom relief is what truly matters but we need to tread lightly when it comes to the cop out for some claiming this is where I feel best!

I could bang 300 mg T/week maybe have minimal sides, blood markers fairly good overall other then very high hematocrit yet state this is where I feel best.

When you seen how absurd my TT and more importantly trough FT levels were on such protocol they would be well past therapeutic!

Such dose would never be needed to achieve a healthy let alone high trough FT level let alone experience relief/improvement of low-T symptoms.

Also remember when first starting TTh or tweaking a protocol (increasing/decreasing T dose) hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks TE/TC) and it is common to experience ups/downs during the transition as the body is trying to adjust.

Even then once blood levels have stabilized it will still take the body time (a few more months) to adapt to its new set-point and this is the CRITICAL time period when one needs to gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-T symptoms and overall well-being!

The first 6 weeks means nothing when looking at the bigger picture here.

Every protocol needs to be given a fighting chance (12 weeks) before claiming whether it was truly a success or failure!

If you jump the gun too soon which many of the misinformed do then you will be left chasing your tail endlessly caught up on that never-ending merry go round!

Again patience is key.

Have realistic expectations especially when it comes to libido and erectile function!

Age-stratified reference ranges for directly measured (ED LC-MS/MS) serum free testosterone in healthy men

Just to be clear up any confusion this is Fiers camps data for mFT reference ranges not the harmonized reference range being worked on by the CDC. *Serum samples were analyzed from healthy men participating in the SIBLOS/SIBEX and EMAS studies, both population-based cohort studies * mFT...

www.excelmale.com

*We established mFT reference ranges for healthy men aged 18 to 69 years




We present 95% mFT age-stratified reference ranges

Age category (years)	Median mFT (ng/dl)	95% mFT reference range (ng/dl)
25-29 (n=148)	10.3	5.6 - 17.1
30-39 (n=252)	9.7	4.9 - 18.1
40-49 (n=207)	8.0	4.3 - 13.5
50-59 (n=146)	7.0	3.8 - 12.6
60-69 (n=114)	5.9	3.3 - 11.9

*The gold-standard for the determination of FT levels is considered to be directly measured free testosterone (mFT) using equilibrium dialysis followed by mass spectrometry (ED LC-MS/MS). However, no widely accepted reference ranges are available for this clinical parameter. We established mFT reference ranges for healthy men aged 18 to 69 years




*Serum samples were analyzed from healthy men participating in the SIBLOS/SIBEX and EMAS studies, both population-based cohort studies


* mFT levels were measured in 867 men using ED LC-MS/MS as previously reported (1).

Reference: 1. Fiers T, Wu F, Moghetti P, Vanderschueren D, Lapauw B, Kaufman JM. Reassessing Free-Testosterone Calculation by Liquid Chromatography–Tandem Mass Spectrometry Direct Equilibrium Dialysis. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2018;103(6). doi:10.1210/jc.2017-02360

Reassessing Free-Testosterone Calculation by Liquid Chromatography–Tandem Mass Spectrometry Direct Equilibrium Dialysis

Reassessment of FT in women and men with state-of-the-art methodology confirms previously established FT percentages but highlights limitations of differen

academic.oup.com

In the current study, we used a state-of-the-art direct ED method to reassess FT in sets of representative serum samples. This method takes advantage of the ability of a highly sensitive and accurate measurement of T by liquid chromatography–tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) to reliably measure the low FT concentration directly in the dialysate after ED. This more straightforward method avoids potential sources of inaccuracy in indirect ED, such as those resulting from tracer impurities or from measures to limit their impact (e.g., sample dilution). We then used the measured FT results to re-evaluate some characteristics of two more established and a more recently proposed calculations for estimation of FT.

Androgen modulation of mesoprefrontal dopamine systems and the effects of these actions on the adult male brain

Again would tread lightly on how high you run your trough/steady-state FT level! This can easily backfire in the long-run for many especially when it comes to mood, libido and erectile function! Too high a FT level can be just as bad in many ways as having too low a FT level. Libido starts in...

www.excelmale.com

Truth About Testosterone and Your Libido

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/truth-testosterone-libido-185000725.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr As an expert on andrology and sexual dysfunctions, urologist Andrew Y. Sun, M.D., sees plenty of patients who’re struggling with low libido. And most are pretty sure they already...

www.excelmale.com

 

[aloetard]

Keep in mind that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

Although it is important to know where your trough FT level sits symptom relief is what truly matters.

What level you need to hit would be through trial and error.

Every individual is different as some men will feel good running a mid-range trough whereas others may need a high-end trough to reap the full benefits.

Many tend to aim for a higher-end let alone high trough.

Some will even venture into the absurd territory but that is usually the ones caught up on that more T is better mentality being pushed by those dime a dozen run of the mill T-clinics, so called men's health forums loaded with all those blast n cruizzzers polluting the internet let alone those so called gurus littered on the forums/Gootube!

Unfortunately many men are overmedicated running levels well beyond their genetic set-point.

The goal here is to achieve a healthy trough FT.

Just to put this in perspective most healthy young males would be hitting a FT 10 ng/dL tested using the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis assay (most accurate) or a cFTV 13-15 ng/dL and this is a short-lived peak to boot!

Trough would be 20-25% lower.

More importantly a FT in the low 20s whether cFTV or standardized ED assay would be very high!

Everyone needs to hammer it in their heads that a trough FT 30 ng/dL is absurdly high.

We are talking f**king TROUGH here too not peak!

Unfortunately many are caught up aiming for that super high FT 30+ ng/dL and this is troughs we are talking about here.

Again big difference between one hitting a very high trough FT 30 ng/dL injecting once weekly vs EOD or daily!

Critical to always pay attention to injection frequency/trough FT level.

Yes many may very well feel better overall running higher-end/high trough FT levels but it is far from a given.

As I have stated numerous times on the forum running too high a FT can be just as bad as running too low a FT in many ways especially when it comes to liibido, erectile function and mood!

Hammering your dopamine from running too high a steady-state/trough FT can easily backfire on you in the long-run.

Everyone has a genetic set-point and unfortunately many end up blowing well beyond it due to being caught upon that more T is better mentality!

Just to be clear here I see no issue if one chooses to run a high-end/high trough FT within reason especially if blood markers are healthy, minus any sides and they feel great overall.

Yes symptom relief is what truly matters but we need to tread lightly when it comes to the cop out for some claiming this is where I feel best!

I could bang 300 mg T/week maybe have minimal sides, blood markers fairly good overall other then very high hematocrit yet state this is where I feel best.

When you seen how absurd my TT and more importantly trough FT levels were on such protocol they would be well past therapeutic!

Such dose would never be needed to achieve a healthy let alone high trough FT level let alone experience relief/improvement of low-T symptoms.

Also remember when first starting TTh or tweaking a protocol (increasing/decreasing T dose) hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks TE/TC) and it is common to experience ups/downs during the transition as the body is trying to adjust.

Even then once blood levels have stabilized it will still take the body time (a few more months) to adapt to its new set-point and this is the CRITICAL time period when one needs to gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-T symptoms and overall well-being!

The first 6 weeks means nothing when looking at the bigger picture here.

Every protocol needs to be given a fighting chance (12 weeks) before claiming whether it was truly a success or failure!

If you jump the gun too soon which many of the misinformed do then you will be left chasing your tail endlessly caught up on that never-ending merry go round!

Again patience is key.

Have realistic expectations especially when it comes to libido and erectile function!

Age-stratified reference ranges for directly measured (ED LC-MS/MS) serum free testosterone in healthy men

Just to be clear up any confusion this is Fiers camps data for mFT reference ranges not the harmonized reference range being worked on by the CDC. *Serum samples were analyzed from healthy men participating in the SIBLOS/SIBEX and EMAS studies, both population-based cohort studies * mFT...

www.excelmale.com

*We established mFT reference ranges for healthy men aged 18 to 69 years




We present 95% mFT age-stratified reference ranges

Age category (years)	Median mFT (ng/dl)	95% mFT reference range (ng/dl)
25-29 (n=148)	10.3	5.6 - 17.1
30-39 (n=252)	9.7	4.9 - 18.1
40-49 (n=207)	8.0	4.3 - 13.5
50-59 (n=146)	7.0	3.8 - 12.6
60-69 (n=114)	5.9	3.3 - 11.9

*The gold-standard for the determination of FT levels is considered to be directly measured free testosterone (mFT) using equilibrium dialysis followed by mass spectrometry (ED LC-MS/MS). However, no widely accepted reference ranges are available for this clinical parameter. We established mFT reference ranges for healthy men aged 18 to 69 years




*Serum samples were analyzed from healthy men participating in the SIBLOS/SIBEX and EMAS studies, both population-based cohort studies


* mFT levels were measured in 867 men using ED LC-MS/MS as previously reported (1).

Reference: 1. Fiers T, Wu F, Moghetti P, Vanderschueren D, Lapauw B, Kaufman JM. Reassessing Free-Testosterone Calculation by Liquid Chromatography–Tandem Mass Spectrometry Direct Equilibrium Dialysis. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2018;103(6). doi:10.1210/jc.2017-02360

Reassessing Free-Testosterone Calculation by Liquid Chromatography–Tandem Mass Spectrometry Direct Equilibrium Dialysis

Reassessment of FT in women and men with state-of-the-art methodology confirms previously established FT percentages but highlights limitations of differen

academic.oup.com

In the current study, we used a state-of-the-art direct ED method to reassess FT in sets of representative serum samples. This method takes advantage of the ability of a highly sensitive and accurate measurement of T by liquid chromatography–tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) to reliably measure the low FT concentration directly in the dialysate after ED. This more straightforward method avoids potential sources of inaccuracy in indirect ED, such as those resulting from tracer impurities or from measures to limit their impact (e.g., sample dilution). We then used the measured FT results to re-evaluate some characteristics of two more established and a more recently proposed calculations for estimation of FT.

Androgen modulation of mesoprefrontal dopamine systems and the effects of these actions on the adult male brain

Again would tread lightly on how high you run your trough/steady-state FT level! This can easily backfire in the long-run for many especially when it comes to mood, libido and erectile function! Too high a FT level can be just as bad in many ways as having too low a FT level. Libido starts in...

www.excelmale.com

Truth About Testosterone and Your Libido

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/truth-testosterone-libido-185000725.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr As an expert on andrology and sexual dysfunctions, urologist Andrew Y. Sun, M.D., sees plenty of patients who’re struggling with low libido. And most are pretty sure they already...

www.excelmale.com

Simply excellent. The OP is fortunate to have you.

 

[Ethan@50]

Keep in mind that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

Although it is important to know where your trough FT level sits symptom relief is what truly matters.

What level you need to hit would be through trial and error.

Every individual is different as some men will feel good running a mid-range trough whereas others may need a high-end trough to reap the full benefits.

Many tend to aim for a higher-end let alone high trough.

Some will even venture into the absurd territory but that is usually the ones caught up on that more T is better mentality being pushed by those dime a dozen run of the mill T-clinics, so called men's health forums loaded with all those blast n cruizzzers polluting the internet let alone those so called gurus littered on the forums/Gootube!

Unfortunately many men are overmedicated running levels well beyond their genetic set-point.

The goal here is to achieve a healthy trough FT.

Just to put this in perspective most healthy young males would be hitting a FT 10 ng/dL tested using the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis assay (most accurate) or a cFTV 13-15 ng/dL and this is a short-lived peak to boot!

Trough would be 20-25% lower.

More importantly a FT in the low 20s whether cFTV or standardized ED assay would be very high!

Everyone needs to hammer it in their heads that a trough FT 30 ng/dL is absurdly high.

We are talking f**king TROUGH here too not peak!

Unfortunately many are caught up aiming for that super high FT 30+ ng/dL and this is troughs we are talking about here.

Again big difference between one hitting a very high trough FT 30 ng/dL injecting once weekly vs EOD or daily!

Critical to always pay attention to injection frequency/trough FT level.

Yes many may very well feel better overall running higher-end/high trough FT levels but it is far from a given.

As I have stated numerous times on the forum running too high a FT can be just as bad as running too low a FT in many ways especially when it comes to liibido, erectile function and mood!

Hammering your dopamine from running too high a steady-state/trough FT can easily backfire on you in the long-run.

Everyone has a genetic set-point and unfortunately many end up blowing well beyond it due to being caught upon that more T is better mentality!

Just to be clear here I see no issue if one chooses to run a high-end/high trough FT within reason especially if blood markers are healthy, minus any sides and they feel great overall.

Yes symptom relief is what truly matters but we need to tread lightly when it comes to the cop out for some claiming this is where I feel best!

I could bang 300 mg T/week maybe have minimal sides, blood markers fairly good overall other then very high hematocrit yet state this is where I feel best.

When you seen how absurd my TT and more importantly trough FT levels were on such protocol they would be well past therapeutic!

Such dose would never be needed to achieve a healthy let alone high trough FT level let alone experience relief/improvement of low-T symptoms.

Also remember when first starting TTh or tweaking a protocol (increasing/decreasing T dose) hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks TE/TC) and it is common to experience ups/downs during the transition as the body is trying to adjust.

Even then once blood levels have stabilized it will still take the body time (a few more months) to adapt to its new set-point and this is the CRITICAL time period when one needs to gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-T symptoms and overall well-being!

The first 6 weeks means nothing when looking at the bigger picture here.

Every protocol needs to be given a fighting chance (12 weeks) before claiming whether it was truly a success or failure!

If you jump the gun too soon which many of the misinformed do then you will be left chasing your tail endlessly caught up on that never-ending merry go round!

Again patience is key.

Have realistic expectations especially when it comes to libido and erectile function!

Age-stratified reference ranges for directly measured (ED LC-MS/MS) serum free testosterone in healthy men

Just to be clear up any confusion this is Fiers camps data for mFT reference ranges not the harmonized reference range being worked on by the CDC. *Serum samples were analyzed from healthy men participating in the SIBLOS/SIBEX and EMAS studies, both population-based cohort studies * mFT...

www.excelmale.com

*We established mFT reference ranges for healthy men aged 18 to 69 years




We present 95% mFT age-stratified reference ranges

Age category (years)	Median mFT (ng/dl)	95% mFT reference range (ng/dl)
25-29 (n=148)	10.3	5.6 - 17.1
30-39 (n=252)	9.7	4.9 - 18.1
40-49 (n=207)	8.0	4.3 - 13.5
50-59 (n=146)	7.0	3.8 - 12.6
60-69 (n=114)	5.9	3.3 - 11.9

*The gold-standard for the determination of FT levels is considered to be directly measured free testosterone (mFT) using equilibrium dialysis followed by mass spectrometry (ED LC-MS/MS). However, no widely accepted reference ranges are available for this clinical parameter. We established mFT reference ranges for healthy men aged 18 to 69 years




*Serum samples were analyzed from healthy men participating in the SIBLOS/SIBEX and EMAS studies, both population-based cohort studies


* mFT levels were measured in 867 men using ED LC-MS/MS as previously reported (1).

Reference: 1. Fiers T, Wu F, Moghetti P, Vanderschueren D, Lapauw B, Kaufman JM. Reassessing Free-Testosterone Calculation by Liquid Chromatography–Tandem Mass Spectrometry Direct Equilibrium Dialysis. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2018;103(6). doi:10.1210/jc.2017-02360

Reassessing Free-Testosterone Calculation by Liquid Chromatography–Tandem Mass Spectrometry Direct Equilibrium Dialysis

Reassessment of FT in women and men with state-of-the-art methodology confirms previously established FT percentages but highlights limitations of differen

academic.oup.com

In the current study, we used a state-of-the-art direct ED method to reassess FT in sets of representative serum samples. This method takes advantage of the ability of a highly sensitive and accurate measurement of T by liquid chromatography–tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) to reliably measure the low FT concentration directly in the dialysate after ED. This more straightforward method avoids potential sources of inaccuracy in indirect ED, such as those resulting from tracer impurities or from measures to limit their impact (e.g., sample dilution). We then used the measured FT results to re-evaluate some characteristics of two more established and a more recently proposed calculations for estimation of FT.

Androgen modulation of mesoprefrontal dopamine systems and the effects of these actions on the adult male brain

Again would tread lightly on how high you run your trough/steady-state FT level! This can easily backfire in the long-run for many especially when it comes to mood, libido and erectile function! Too high a FT level can be just as bad in many ways as having too low a FT level. Libido starts in...

www.excelmale.com

Truth About Testosterone and Your Libido

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/truth-testosterone-libido-185000725.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr As an expert on andrology and sexual dysfunctions, urologist Andrew Y. Sun, M.D., sees plenty of patients who’re struggling with low libido. And most are pretty sure they already...

www.excelmale.com

Absolutely amazing information madman! Thank you so much for taking the time to provide this very thorough reply. This is exactly the information I was looking for. Really appreciate it!

 

[Ethan@50]

Are you aware of the lab draw timing issue with Kyzatrex, that there are peaks and troughs, and that your T numbers will fluctuate widely through a 24 hour period? TT 416 and Free 66.8 are just fine in terms of midpoint or low end of the daily swing in blood levels.

You also did not state that you had negative symptoms on Kyzatrex.

I thought the cost was the same regardless of dose. I am very interested since I am trying to get off of injections in order to get on Kyzatrex. How are you obtaining, through a local doctor/provider, telehealth or??

I took my labs 4 hours after the morning dose which is what the manufacturer suggests. I think that between 3-5 hours after after a dose is when it peaks if I am not mistaken. So the 416 TT and 66.8 FT should have been at peak. The Kyzatrex titration guide says if you are < 460 TT when taking labs 3-5 hours after a dose then you need to go up to the max dose of 400mg BID. I was taking 200mg BID. It comes in 120 capsules for $159 + $25 shipping. At 200mg BID it would have lasted me two months which was doable but at a dose of 400mg BID it would only last me one month at $184 a month which is a bit much for me.

I am very curious why you are switching from injections to oral?

 

[Ethan@50]

What is the smallest gauge needle you would suggest for test cypionate injection into the deltoid? Would 1/2 inch be the best length? Thanks very much!

 

[aloetard]

What is the smallest gauge needle you would suggest for test cypionate injection into the deltoid? Would 1/2 inch be the best length? Thanks very much!

How patient are you and how much are you trying to inject?

29/30 g insulin pin is doable. Some may prefer 27 g if more impatient.

 

[Ethan@50]

How patient are you and how much are you trying to inject?

29/30 g insulin pin is doable. Some may prefer 27 g if more impatient.

Thank you aloetard! I will be injecting 0.5ml or 50mg at a time via deltoid twice a week. I've seen both 29g and 28g, 1/2 length, 1 ml syringes online.

 

[aloetard]

Thank you aloetard! I will be injecting 0.5ml or 50mg at a time via deltoid twice a week. I've seen both 29g and 28g, 1/2 length, 1 ml syringes online.

28 is silly, same ID as 29. Sounds like a plan. Best wishes!

Damn, that aloetard name does kind of have a ring to it. Thanks!

 

[Cataceous]

...
Damn, that aloetard name does kind of have a ring to it. ...

Clever. Still some left for next time, though hope you stay put instead. "tealroad", or maybe "roadtale"? Is "oatalder" against the rules?

 

[ignition]

I took my labs 4 hours after the morning dose which is what the manufacturer suggests. I think that between 3-5 hours after after a dose is when it peaks if I am not mistaken. So the 416 TT and 66.8 FT should have been at peak. The Kyzatrex titration guide says if you are < 460 TT when taking labs 3-5 hours after a dose then you need to go up to the max dose of 400mg BID. I was taking 200mg BID. It comes in 120 capsules for $159 + $25 shipping. At 200mg BID it would have lasted me two months which was doable but at a dose of 400mg BID it would only last me one month at $184 a month which is a bit much for me.

I am very curious why you are switching from injections to oral?

I have reached the end of the line to donate blood to reduce hematocrit. Ferritin is too low.

 

[Ethan@50]

I have reached the end of the line to donate blood to reduce hematocrit. Ferritin is too low.

Yea that's no fun. Sorry you're dealing with that. What dose are you taking?

 

[aloetard]

Clever. Still some left for next time, though hope you stay put instead. "tealroad", or maybe "roadtale"? Is "oatalder" against the rules?

Wow, those are epic. Man, you are good at everything it seems!

I swear there are a lot of permutations on those 8 letters. Didn't fully appreciate it when I picked that handle initially.