Swapping To 1 Injection Per Week.

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

I don’t think cypionate is intended to be injected more than once a week, so it’s reasonable to follow the guidelines of the drug manufacturers. I think some people experiment with more than once a week just because they’re reading too much on the internet and forums. I’m guilty of that.

 

[Cataceous]

I don’t think cypionate is intended to be injected more than once a week, so it’s reasonable to follow the guidelines of the drug manufacturers. ...

If Pfizer says so it must be best.

For replacement in the hypogonadal male, 50–400 mg should be administered every two to four weeks.[R]​

​

Enjoy the ride.

 

[tareload]

Enjoy the ride.

Starting TRT Over Soon

urologist seen at clinic

forums.t-nation.com

Starting TRT Over Soon

Sorry for the error above @Gibbon (I input 300 mg/week every 7 days instead of the 300 mg you were doing every 28 days approx.) Very likely you were up close to 3000 ng/dl at peak and now the 755 ng/dl 10 days after injection makes sense. Sorry for confusion previous graph caused. Graph as...

forums.t-nation.com

 

[Vince]

Just got my levels back and again they are perfect. Traveling and typing this on my phone so not gonna go through and copy paste everything regarding bloodwork but even my docs at Defy agree everything is spot on.

After trying subq, daily injections and all other different methods the only thing I can think of left to try is changing to once per week injections. Currently at 2x per week.

Still missing the libido/mental drive/clarity aspect. It’s worse on trt.

I’ve seen posts about trying to get start making my hormone levels have some fluctuation to them like how they do in a natural flow of hormones.

Maybe being stagnant at the same range is what’s holding me back.

So just wanted to get others opinions on if they had any luck with swapping to once per week & if they did anything different or if they just took the total of their combined doses and just did them in 1 day.

I know this thread has been going for a while. But I should mention I have a friend who injects once every two weeks. He likes the way it makes him feel and he has no reason to switch. So he keeps injecting every two weeks. While I'm just the opposite and I do daily injections.

 

[tareload]

50–400 mg should be administered every two to four weeks.[R]

To be quite honest, I still don't understand how this part of the recommendation came about really. It's not as though we as the human race didn't understand tensors 50 years ago. In fact, a larger percentage of the population understood them then than today (if I had to guess).

 

[Eagleface]

Just got my levels back and again they are perfect. Traveling and typing this on my phone so not gonna go through and copy paste everything regarding bloodwork but even my docs at Defy agree everything is spot on.

After trying subq, daily injections and all other different methods the only thing I can think of left to try is changing to once per week injections. Currently at 2x per week.

Still missing the libido/mental drive/clarity aspect. It’s worse on trt.

I’ve seen posts about trying to get start making my hormone levels have some fluctuation to them like how they do in a natural flow of hormones.

Maybe being stagnant at the same range is what’s holding me back.

So just wanted to get others opinions on if they had any luck with swapping to once per week & if they did anything different or if they just took the total of their combined doses and just did them in 1 day.

Your levels can't be "perfect" If you're missing libido, mental clarity, drive, etc
you're not dialed in and even if your lab values are "spot on" it means nothing if your symptoms aren't resolved.

 

[Eagleface]

I have higher shbg, I have tried everything in the past 7 years, I feel my best with 120mg of T Cyp once a week IM

 

[bixt]

Enjoy the ride.

It seems the cutting edge of TRT involves (short term) variation. Creams, gels, nasal gels, oral TU. All seem to work well perhaps because levels drop low at some point. Something then resets its sensitivity and allows the next dose to "hit". Dopamine?

Now lets talk injections of long acting esters:

Low variation of levels between shots (frequency high):

Reports come in of "feeling flat" all the time. Especially with higher end doses and high T 24/7. All the complainers on these forums.

High variation of T between shots(eg. 14 day between shots):

The reports coming in say roller coaster. BUT NOTE WELL: They DO report feeling fantastic, high libido, big energy in the beginning, which then wanes as levels drop. Then they feel crap. But again right after the next shot, they are boosting once more. At least they feel awesome SOME of the time, as opposed to so many here who feel...nothing...all the time. The low levels enable the honeymoon to return on the next shot.

I still don't understand how this part of the recommendation came about really.

SO, perhaps the original developers of the injections did some testing and felt feeling good for some percentage of the time is better than not feeling all of the time? And then came up with these infrequent protocols. I'm almost certain the creators played with this stuff on themselves. Hell, per wikipedia a Havard prof named Charles-Édouard Brown-Séquard did a subq inject of animal testicle mixture and felt well. For a while. Pretty sure those Pfizer guys were using the stuff off the record too and used the best protocol (for them, at the time) for the leaflet.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Now lets talk injections of long acting esters:

Low variation of levels between shots (frequency high):

Reports come in of "feeling flat" all the time. Especially with higher end doses and high T 24/7. All the complainers on these forums.

High variation of T between shots(eg. 14 day between shots):

The reports coming in say roller coaster. BUT NOTE WELL: They DO report feeling fantastic, high libido, big energy in the beginning, which then wanes as levels drop. Then they feel crap. But again right after the next shot, they are boosting once more. At least they feel awesome SOME of the time, as opposed to so many here who feel...nothing...all the time. The low levels enable the honeymoon to return on the next shot.

This is a great post, very thought provoking. How does the total area under the curve on a "good feels" graph compare though? Have the low frequency guys actually gained anything over time or are they just borrowing well-being from the future, when they will drop below the higher frequency flatline?

 

[bixt]

just borrowing well-being from the future

We would first have to define "well being" and now the discussion turns philosophical. Lets make the (very flawed) assumption that this rollercoaster cuts your life by 15 years.

So would you choose to live:

15 more years - having a party with good libido at least half of that time.

30 more years - as a boring geriatric, albeit with "excellent heart health markers"

NB: This is completely overblown hyperbole, should data come up, to show how such a trade off could be illustrated. We can use this same trade-off example as well for adding other "fun stuff" compounds to your TRT. Or to argue TOT vs TRT. Etc.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Haha, I should have clarified what I meant by future, although you raised a good question there. When looking at weekly injections versus daily, I was asking whether the weekly injector is borrowing well-being from later in the week. If you graphed one week of his well-being versus the daily injector at the same dose, does he have a higher total area under the curve? Or are the early week gains canceled out by later losses as he approaches trough?

 

[bixt]

Haha, I should have clarified what I meant by future, although you raised a good question there. When looking at weekly injections versus daily, I was asking whether the weekly injector is borrowing well-being from later in the week. If you graphed one week of his well-being versus the daily injector at the same dose, does he have a higher total area under the curve? Or are the early week gains canceled out by later losses as he approaches trough?

I'm sure that would be very individualistic, and so many variables define well being. Using just libido as an example: If a guy has a libido for 4 days and none for 3 days, surely he is better off than all the guys here with libido for 0 days? That guy would have some area under the curve vs no area.

 

[tareload]

I'm sure that would be very individualistic, and so many variables define well being. Using just libido as an example: If a guy has a libido for 4 days and none for 3 days, surely he is better off than all the guys here with libido for 0 days? That guy would have some area under the curve vs no area.

If I didn't have/had heart issues I would definitely try out your supra burst method more regularly. But two weeks is all I made before trouble. Sucks being such a weak man incapable of fully enjoying the TOT ride. Must be like Thor's Hammer.

In honesty two weeks only counts 325 mg/week TC. I had a decent run with nandrolone and oxandrolone pushing 300-400 mg/week total AAS (Test + other) for a year and a half. Live and learn. But darn it that learning comes with potential irreversible pain in the butt.

Maybe I need to run minor TC with mostly nandrolone and oxandrolone for the win . Throw in a little stanozolol (2 mg/week).

 

[bixt]

If I didn't have/had heart issues I would definitely try out your supra burst method more regularly. But two weeks is all I made before trouble. Sucks being such a weak man incapable of fully enjoying the TOT ride. Must be like Thor's Hammer.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Keep your heart friendly protocol. And use scrotal creams\prop\supension\fast acting orals for the "weekend" or as a pre workout 2 x per week occasionally? I'm sure that's not going to kill you. Look into what protocols athletes are using to get enhanced for a few hours, train hard, and then test normally.

 

[tareload]

Where there's a will, there's a way. Keep your heart friendly protocol. And use scrotal creams\prop\supension\fast acting orals for the "weekend" or as a pre workout 2 x per week occasionally? I'm sure that's not going to kill you. Look into what protocols athletes are using to get enhanced for a few hours, train hard, and then test normally.

Unfortunately the arrhythmia / exercise intolerance still on and off with my reasonable 100 mg/week TC protocol or off T. Sucks not to be able to push it hard. So probably some irreversible damage there somewhere. Haven't checked for fibrosis with MRI but I kinda don't want to know.

Thanks for your posts.

Take care of those heart nodes guys and limit the AAS when doing extreme HIIT + heavy weights perhaps. Maybe Mike O-Tren has it right (pains me to even posit this).

As you get older limit crazy goals like 315 for 5 on bench plus 6 min mile. Probably unwise.

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

It seems the cutting edge of TRT involves (short term) variation. Creams, gels, nasal gels, oral TU. All seem to work well perhaps because levels drop low at some point. Something then resets its sensitivity and allows the next dose to "hit". Dopamine?

Now lets talk injections of long acting esters:

Low variation of levels between shots (frequency high):

Reports come in of "feeling flat" all the time. Especially with higher end doses and high T 24/7. All the complainers on these forums.

High variation of T between shots(eg. 14 day between shots):

The reports coming in say roller coaster. BUT NOTE WELL: They DO report feeling fantastic, high libido, big energy in the beginning, which then wanes as levels drop. Then they feel crap. But again right after the next shot, they are boosting once more. At least they feel awesome SOME of the time, as opposed to so many here who feel...nothing...all the time. The low levels enable the honeymoon to return on the next shot.



SO, perhaps the original developers of the injections did some testing and felt feeling good for some percentage of the time is better than not feeling all of the time? And then came up with these infrequent protocols. I'm almost certain the creators played with this stuff on themselves. Hell, per wikipedia a Havard prof named Charles-Édouard Brown-Séquard did a subq inject of animal testicle mixture and felt well. For a while. Pretty sure those Pfizer guys were using the stuff off the record too and used the best protocol (for them, at the time) for the leaflet.

This is what I’ve been saying but it seems as though some people on this forum would rather pin everyday (makes no sense and not how the drug was intended to be used… duh).

 

[Vince]

This is what I’ve been saying but it seems as though some people on this forum would rather pin everyday (makes no sense and not how the drug was intended to be used… duh).

The reason I started daily injections. I was trying to stop donating blood every 8 weeks. Going to daily injections did work for me. Once I started I never had to donate blood again. So far it's been over five and a half years. I know it doesn't work for everyone but somehow it worked for me. Plus I do have a strong libido, good energy and no brain fog.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

This is what I’ve been saying but it seems as though some people on this forum would rather pin everyday (makes no sense and not how the drug was intended to be used… duh).

Let's say there's a negative side effect that you get whenever you exceed a total T of X ng/dL (like rising hematocrit in Vince's example). If you insist on weekly dosing and don't want to trigger that side effect, you're going to have use a much lower dose than you could if you were willing to inject more frequently.

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

Unfortunately the arrhythmia / exercise intolerance still on and off with my reasonable 100 mg/week TC protocol or off T. Sucks not to be able to push it hard. So probably some irreversible damage there somewhere. Haven't checked for fibrosis with MRI but I kinda don't want to know.

Thanks for your posts.

Take care of those heart nodes guys and limit the AAS when doing extreme HIIT + heavy weights perhaps. Maybe Mike O-Tren has it right (pains me to even posit this).

As you get older limit crazy goals like 315 for 5 on bench plus 6 min mile. Probably unwise.

So doctors don’t know what’s wrong with your heart? Why don’t you just get the mri so you can at least rule it out and see if you can treat whatever it is? No judgement just asking the question lol

 

[tareload]

So doctors don’t know what’s wrong with your heart? Why don’t you just get the mri so you can at least rule it out and see if you can treat whatever it is? No judgement just asking the question lol

At this point a matter of actionable data. Kinda hard to treat heart fibrosis. Maybe worth it but cardiologists so far dismiss any real damage. So it's a matter of be careful what you look for with me.

Cardiac Fibrosis: New Treatments in Cardiovascular Medicine

www.uspharmacist.com

Cardiac fibrosis: potential therapeutic targets - PubMed

Cardiovascular disease is a leading cause of mortality in the world and is exacerbated by the presence of cardiac fibrosis, defined by the accumulation of noncontractile extracellular matrix proteins. Cardiac fibrosis is directly linked to cardiac dysfunction and increased risk of arrhythmia...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Between my modest experience and @BigTex 's cumulative experience should inform that playing with AAS such an individual risk continuum. Of course I can't prove AAS are the cause of my issue (or AAS plus insane HIIT + heavy resistance training, etc). But the timing is kinda suspect. Still curious if we will learn anything from Crossfit + AAS. COVID wildcard in there too ;-).