Swapping red meat for herring, sardines and anchovies could save 750,000 lives, study suggests

[WestB87]

This is complete nonsense and a good example of why people have become so skeptical of modern science. You can pry my red meat from my cold, dead hands.

I’ve self experimented with various forms of diets over the years to affect change of various issues/systems. Without a doubt, the absolute BEST I’ve ever felt in my entire life was when I was strictly carnivore and 80% or so was nothing but red meat, the remainder was salmon or chicken. I damn near tried to wear my poor wife out, I had fantastic energy, beautiful skin, minimal arthritic joint pain compared to baseline, my lipids were perfect (I wish I would have had a testosterone sample taken at that time as it was before TRT), my blood pressure was perfect, my blood sugar was in the 80s for the first recorded time ever (normally around 96-99) and I felt on top of the whole freakin world (and trying to bang it to death while I was there).

I stopped for 2 reasons.
1: Food repetition fatigue. Eating the same stuff over and over for 6 months straight, regardless of seasoning gets tiring.
2: I was powerlifting at the time and leg days at around the 4 month mark started involving lots of light headedness. Carb depletion is my assumed issue.

 

[Gman86]

Nothing against sardines -- if you like them, they're better for your health than any plant food. The problem is the premise that red meat is problematic for health and needs to be swapped out for anything else. In fact, the more red meat you eat, the healthier you'll be, right up to and including 100% of the diet as red meat.

Literally couldn’t have said it better myself. This is the actual truth. It’s not even debatable, at this point, imo

 

[Gman86]

Don't take it on faith. Try it and see for yourself.

Exactly. At the end of the day, nobody has to believe what anybody says about certain diets/ food choices. All u have to do is literally try something out for urself for a month or two, and u can simply see for urself what works/ what doesn’t, and what is actual truth/ facts, and what isn’t

 

[Gman86]

I’ve self experimented with various forms of diets over the years to affect change of various issues/systems. Without a doubt, the absolute BEST I’ve ever felt in my entire life was when I was strictly carnivore and 80% or so was nothing but red meat, the remainder was salmon or chicken. I damn near tried to wear my poor wife out, I had fantastic energy, beautiful skin, minimal arthritic joint pain compared to baseline, my lipids were perfect (I wish I would have had a testosterone sample taken at that time as it was before TRT), my blood pressure was perfect, my blood sugar was in the 80s for the first recorded time ever (normally around 96-99) and I felt on top of the whole freakin world (and trying to bang it to death while I was there).

I stopped for 2 reasons.
1: Food repetition fatigue. Eating the same stuff over and over for 6 months straight, regardless of seasoning gets tiring.
2: I was powerlifting at the time and leg days at around the 4 month mark started involving lots of light headedness. Carb depletion is my assumed issue.

So what does ur current diet look like?

How do u feel now compared to when u were doing strict carnivore?

 

[Gman86]

I don't intend to push my views on anyone, but I am now in the camp that there are no benefits to consuming Omega 3s or Omega 6s at all, whether in fish or fish oil supplements.
For more on that view, I can suggest three episodes from Jay Feldman's Energy Balance podcast, starting at Ep. 105.

Can u link the other two episodes?

 

[WestB87]

So what does ur current diet look like?

How do u feel now compared to when u were doing strict carnivore?

Hey Gman! My current diet (mass gaining phase) is 4500 calories per day. 303g protein, 434g carbs (I rarely reach this number. Any carb other than those in milk or fruit turn my guts to knots and give me horrible gas), 172g fat.

The core of my diet each day is:
-2 cups coffee with 25g heavy whipping cream per cup.
-6 eggs
-Protein shake @ 50g pro
-~220g cooked chicken breast
-Sweet potato or brown rice (these carbs don’t mangle my insides)
-Pre-Workout PB&J
-Post Workout Protein shake
-~220g chicken breast
-Sweet potato or brown rice.
-Other calories come from eating a meal with family.

The diet is working for my goals. The constant weighing and tracking is tedious, but if I don’t, then my results are just as haphazard. I have a near constant “distended stomach” feeling from the sheer amount of food and my body is beginning to induce nausea when I think about having to eat again to reach my calorie goal. Adding in a mass gainer shake to sub out some solid food to see if it helps.

In my profile pic, I was about 3 months into carnivore and felt like a million bucks in that picture, lol. I was 170lbs at the time and I’m now a pretty solid 203lbs as of this morning.

 

[Jim Marlowe]

Episode 106

 

[Jim Marlowe]

Episode 107

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Exactly. At the end of the day, nobody has to believe what anybody says about certain diets/ food choices. All u have to do is literally try something out for urself for a month or two, and u can simply see for urself what works/ what doesn’t, and what is actual truth/ facts, and what isn’t

Absolutely. Forget the mainstream dietary prescriptions derived from sloppy epidemiology and try everything yourself. Try a Mediterranean diet, try a whole-food plant-based diet (healthiest version of veganism), try a paleo diet, try a carnivore diet. Look at your symptoms, look at your biomarkers, keep a journal.

When you've given a diet a few months, what you've learned will be 1000x more relevant to you than anything epidemiology can offer. For example, nothing stripped muscle off my frame and sapped my strength faster than the WFPB vegan diet -- it was incredible. In just a few months, I developed the classic sarcopenic body composition you see in the famous vegan doctors like Michael Gregor. And of course, the bloating and gas was off the charts.

 

[WestB87]

Absolutely. Forget the mainstream dietary prescriptions derived from sloppy epidemiology and try everything yourself. Try a Mediterranean diet, try a whole-food plant-based diet (healthiest version of veganism), try a paleo diet, try a carnivore diet. Look at your symptoms, look at your biomarkers, keep a journal.

When you've given a diet a few months, what you've learned will be 1000x more relevant to you than anything epidemiology can offer. For example, nothing stripped muscle off my frame and sapped my strength faster than the WFPB vegan diet -- it was incredible. In just a few months, I developed the classic sarcopenic body composition you see in the famous vegan doctors like Michael Gregor. And of course, the bloating and gas was off the charts.

That was 100% my experience as well. Every time I see people with no frame of reference and no experience with any other dietary system (almost always the mindless fools of reddit) recommend WFPB I cringe…a lot. The gas, bloating, indigestion, gut wrenching pain, fatigue, weakness, and lethargy for 3 months straight was enough to tell me that it was not a sustainable system in my case. As soon as I added eggs and milk (moving more toward lacto-ovo vegetarianism) things started to progress in the right direction.

 

[Gman86]

Absolutely. Forget the mainstream dietary prescriptions derived from sloppy epidemiology and try everything yourself. Try a Mediterranean diet, try a whole-food plant-based diet (healthiest version of veganism), try a paleo diet, try a carnivore diet. Look at your symptoms, look at your biomarkers, keep a journal.

When you've given a diet a few months, what you've learned will be 1000x more relevant to you than anything epidemiology can offer. For example, nothing stripped muscle off my frame and sapped my strength faster than the WFPB vegan diet -- it was incredible. In just a few months, I developed the classic sarcopenic body composition you see in the famous vegan doctors like Michael Gregor. And of course, the bloating and gas was off the charts.

I’ve said it a bunch of times, but I’ll say it again. There’s a reason why u can find hundreds and hundreds of vids on YouTube where people talk about their experience going from vegan/ vegetarian to carnivore, but good luck finding one vid where someone talks about going from carnivore to vegan/ vegetarian. It’s just not gonna happen. This is due to the fact that once someone tries carnivore, they realize that they feel and function at their best. Nobody is ever going to do carnivore, feel and function at their best, and then go to vegan/ vegetarian, feel and function worse, and then stick to the diet that makes them feel and function worse. Plus, once u truly learn about why a carnivore diet is so optional, and why it makes people feel and function so optimally, u can’t just ignore that knowledge, and go back to a diet where u now understand all the negatives/ pitfalls that come along with it.

I can see someone not wanting to do carnivore anymore due to wanting more flexibility/ freedom with what they eat, but even those people usually end up sticking to a carnivore base, with added carbs of their choice.

But I couldn’t agree more with everything u said. Instead of people being close minded and not even being open to the idea that a carnivore diet can do all the amazing things that thousands of people report, at this point, simply try it out for yourselves, and see if what everyone is saying about it is true or not. Like FunkOdyssey said, this is how u should approach any diet topic really. Instead of going back and forth with people about what possibly is and isn’t true, simply try it out, and see for urself if what u’ve heard about it is true or not

 

[WestB87]

I’ve said it a bunch of times, but I’ll say it again. There’s a reason why u can find hundreds and hundreds of vids on YouTube where people talk about their experience going from vegan/ vegetarian to carnivore, but good luck finding one vid where someone talks about going from carnivore to vegan/ vegetarian. It’s just not gonna happen. This is due to the fact that once someone tries carnivore, they realize that they feel and function at their best. Nobody is ever going to do carnivore, feel and function at their best, and then go to vegan/ vegetarian, feel and function worse, and then stick to the diet that makes them feel and function worse. Plus, once u truly learn about why a carnivore diet is so optional, and why it makes people feel and function so optimally, u can’t just ignore that knowledge, and go back to a diet where u now understand all the negatives/ pitfalls that come along with it.

I can see someone not wanting to do carnivore anymore due to wanting more flexibility/ freedom with what they eat, but even those people usually end up sticking to a carnivore base, with added carbs of their choice.

But I couldn’t agree more with everything u said. Instead of people being close minded and not even being open to the idea that a carnivore diet can do all the amazing things that thousands of people report, at this point, simply try it out for yourselves, and see if what everyone is saying about it is true or not. Like FunkOdyssey said, this is how u should approach any diet topic really. Instead of going back and forth with people about what possibly is and isn’t true, simply try it out, and see for urself if what u’ve heard about it is true or not

If you’ll notice, the US is the world’s largest exporter of beef. It is my personal hypothesis that the World Health Organization (WHO) classifying red meat as a Class 1 carcinogen is an attempt to influence macroeconomics and impact US trade on an export whose value in 2022 was $9.3B. By and large, the medical opinions put out by the WHO are contradictory to US economic interests. Perhaps I’m noticing a correlation where there may not be one, but where there is smoke, there is often fire.

Meanwhile, very few are looking critically at refined sugar intake and the increasingly obvious issues it poses when consumed in typical amounts of today’s first world (and oftentimes second world) societies.

Largest beef exporters worldwide in 2023 | Statista

Brazil was the largest beef exporter in the world in 2023. That year Australia came in second with trade value of about eight billion U.S. dollars.

www.statista.com

 

[Vince]

I’ve said it a bunch of times, but I’ll say it again. There’s a reason why u can find hundreds and hundreds of vids on YouTube where people talk about their experience going from vegan/ vegetarian to carnivore, but good luck finding one vid where someone talks about going from carnivore to vegan/ vegetarian. It’s just not gonna happen. This is due to the fact that once someone tries carnivore, they realize that they feel and function at their best. Nobody is ever going to do carnivore, feel and function at their best, and then go to vegan/ vegetarian, feel and function worse, and then stick to the diet that makes them feel and function worse. Plus, once u truly learn about why a carnivore diet is so optional, and why it makes people feel and function so optimally, u can’t just ignore that knowledge, and go back to a diet where u now understand all the negatives/ pitfalls that come along with it.

I can see someone not wanting to do carnivore anymore due to wanting more flexibility/ freedom with what they eat, but even those people usually end up sticking to a carnivore base, with added carbs of their choice.

But I couldn’t agree more with everything u said. Instead of people being close minded and not even being open to the idea that a carnivore diet can do all the amazing things that thousands of people report, at this point, simply try it out for yourselves, and see if what everyone is saying about it is true or not. Like FunkOdyssey said, this is how u should approach any diet topic really. Instead of going back and forth with people about what possibly is and isn’t true, simply try it out, and see for urself if what u’ve heard about it is true or not

I feel my best on low carbs with lots of healthy non starchy vegetables. It shows in my labs. My APO-e is 3/3 so I am a natural fat eater.

Genetic Reason for NOT eating keto/low carb/high fat diet

Genetics play a part. Apparently APOE4 genes mean trouble from eating high fat The most pertinent bit at about 8:25 Note: Brewer reviewing debunking Mercola's book.

www.excelmale.com

 

[t_spacemonkey]

another cow farts boil the ocean study. give me the $$$ i produce you the data. fuck you can prove anything with enough $$$

 

[Seagal]

If you’ll notice, the US is the world’s largest exporter of beef. It is my personal hypothesis that the World Health Organization (WHO) classifying red meat as a Class 1 carcinogen is an attempt to influence macroeconomics and impact US trade on an export whose value in 2022 was $9.3B. By and large, the medical opinions put out by the WHO are contradictory to US economic interests. Perhaps I’m noticing a correlation where there may not be one, but where there is smoke, there is often fire.

Meanwhile, very few are looking critically at refined sugar intake and the increasingly obvious issues it poses when consumed in typical amounts of today’s first world (and oftentimes second world) societies.

Largest beef exporters worldwide in 2023 | Statista

Brazil was the largest beef exporter in the world in 2023. That year Australia came in second with trade value of about eight billion U.S. dollars.

www.statista.com

It seems that nowadays the nutrition recommendations include environmental concerns/ideology, unfortunately that is often not transparent.

 

[Gman86]

I feel my best on low carbs with lots of healthy non starchy vegetables. It shows in my labs. My APO-e is 3/3 so I am a natural fat eater.

Genetic Reason for NOT eating keto/low carb/high fat diet

Genetics play a part. Apparently APOE4 genes mean trouble from eating high fat The most pertinent bit at about 8:25 Note: Brewer reviewing debunking Mercola's book.

www.excelmale.com

Everyone is going to feel better mentally/ energy wise if they’re doing low carb, to the point they’re in ketosis, while concurrently eating enough protein and fats to get all the micronutrients they need to be getting daily, while avoiding foods that harm the body. Imo there’s no debating this. But obv everyone’s goals and what makes them happy are going to be different. So from an overall happiness standpoint, being in a constant state of ketosis, and eating low carb, might not be ideal for them. But the best anyone can feel, mentally/ energy wise mainly, is going to be in a state of ketosis. Again, imo this isn’t debatable. It’s just human biology, and how our bodies and brains work, in relation to food.

 

[Vince]

Everyone is going to feel better mentally/ energy wise if they’re doing low carb, to the point they’re in ketosis, while concurrently eating enough protein and fats to get all the micronutrients they need to be getting daily, while avoiding foods that harm the body. Imo there’s no debating this. But obv everyone’s goals and what makes them happy are going to be different. So from an overall happiness standpoint, being in a constant state of ketosis, and eating low carb, might not be ideal for them. But the best anyone can feel, mentally/ energy wise mainly, is going to be in a state of ketosis. Again, imo this isn’t debatable. It’s just human biology, and how our bodies and brains work, in relation to food.

So true! I understand what you're saying. For me it's just about health. My family has a long history of heart disease. Thankfully no cancer. My dad had his first major heart attack at age 60. My mom at age 70. My older sister at age 57. So yes my concern is heart disease.

 

[Gman86]

So true! I understand what you're saying. For me it's just about health. My family has a long history of heart disease. Thankfully no cancer. My dad had his first major heart attack at age 60. My mom at age 70. My older sister at age 57. So yes my concern is heart disease.

Jeeze, ya u clearly have a genetic disposition that u need to take very seriously, I totally get it. Just don’t get caught up in the antiquated myths about what actually causes heart disease and what doesn’t. Fatty red meat, and saturated fats in general, are not the cause of heart disease. It’s actually the complete opposite. Those are the foods u want to consume the most of, if optimal health/ avoiding heart disease are a few of ur goals in life. Imo, it’s extremely conclusive that chronic inflammation and insulin resistance, are the actual main causes of heart disease. Eating mostly fatty red meat is the #1 way to maintain a zero to very low inflammation/ insulin sensitive state. Aka keep ur heart disease risk as low as possible. Again, just make sure to not get suckered into believing all the antiquated myths we were told about diet growing up. It’s actually extremely ironic that the actual truth, when it comes to diet and optimal health, is to basically eat the complete opposite way that we were told growing up/ what the food pyramid is based on. The reasons ur parents and sister had heart attacks were due to genetic predispositions, and being in chronically inflamed/ insulin resistant states. Not because they ate too much fatty red meat/ saturated fats. Just keep that in mind

Were any of them diabetic or pre-diabetic when they had their heart attacks?

 

[Vince]

Jeeze, ya u clearly have a genetic disposition that u need to take very seriously, I totally get it. Just don’t get caught up in the antiquated myths about what actually causes heart disease and what doesn’t. Fatty red meat, and saturated fats in general, are not the cause of heart disease. It’s actually the complete opposite. Those are the foods u want to consume the most of, if optimal health/ avoiding heart disease are a few of ur goals in life. Imo, it’s extremely conclusive that chronic inflammation and insulin resistance, are the actual main causes of heart disease. Eating mostly fatty red meat is the #1 way to maintain a zero to very low inflammation/ insulin sensitive state. Aka keep ur heart disease risk as low as possible. Again, just make sure to not get suckered into believing all the antiquated myths we were told about diet growing up. It’s actually extremely ironic that the actual truth, when it comes to diet and optimal health, is to basically eat the complete opposite way that we were told growing up/ what the food pyramid is based on. The reasons ur parents and sister had heart attacks were due to genetic predispositions, and being in chronically inflamed/ insulin resistant states. Not because they ate too much fatty red meat/ saturated fats. Just keep that in mind

Were any of them diabetic or pre-diabetic when they had their heart attacks?

No, none of my family members are diabetic. My dad lived to 90, he died from kidney disease, he did not want to do dialysis, my mom is still alive. My oldest sister died from ALS 2 years ago at age 69.

 

[Gman86]

No, none of my family members are diabetic. My dad lived to 90, he died from kidney disease, he did not want to do dialysis, my mom is still alive. My oldest sister died from ALS 2 years ago at age 69.

Wow, glad to hear that ur dad ended up living so long after his heart attack, and that ur mom is still going strong after hers. Sorry to hear about ur sister obv. ALS is a tough way to go