Supplements/recommendations for aiding in restoring cartilage to the knee. Only 39 years old and is considered level 3-4 arthritic

[Cataceous]

... Sorry guys but Regenexx didn't sell me the price of a consultation. ...

Having spent quite a bit on Regenexx myself I would also advise those considering it to save your money. The technology isn't there yet.

I am intrigued by your hGH experiment. Hope it continues to go well. I would also consider it to avoid knee surgery.

 

[testiculus]

I am going to check out Regenexx today. It seems to be covered by self funded insurance as well. Medicare Advantage may or may not cover this. We have places here in Houston that do this procedure. So I will find out more about it.

OK, so I contacted Regenexx here in Houston and talked to a sales associate. Sales???They don't take insurance at all. Red flags popping up all over the place for me. So right there I am asked to pay a whole lot of money on a hope and a dream because the research behind PRP and STEM cell is far from being accepted. In fact, I have done PRP 2 times and a much less expensive price and it was not effective at all. $2500 for PRP and I recently paid $350 cash. I use to work with a woman who had stem cell done in the hip and it was totally ineffective, she ended up with a total hip replacement. Their stem cell is $7500 so I would be financing over $1000 for one joint on a hope and a dream of it even being effective. They tell me their procedure for collecting stem cell is much better, yet it is the same procedure they rest do. PRP ain't rocket science either. Anytime a doctor doesn't take insurance is a huge red flag to me. I worked too hard for money in my life to have it taken from me. Sorry guys but Regenexx didn't sell me the price of a consultation. I can buy a whole lot of hGH for that kind of money. At least this seems to have been pretty effective.

All of the stem cell therapies are scams. While there's been great progress in taking adult cells and converting them to pluripotent stem cells, there's huge problems on the delivery side of things. Once injected in the body, there is no way to guide the differentiation of the stem cells. You want them to become chondrocytes, but there's nothing that's going to signal the stem cells to differentiate into chondrocytes. Most of the stem cells just end up dying. Even if researchers solve the differentiation problem, there is a secondary and much bigger problem. Once injected into the body, the stem cells don't stay where they are injected. They can migrate to anywhere. Right now this isn't a problem because they don't differentiate. But if you can signal them to differentiate into chondrocytes, then you get the problem of chondrocytes in places you don't want them, like in heart tissue. I'm pretty pessimistic that stem cells will ever be a viable therapy for any condition.

 

[testiculus]

IA IGF-1 injections might be a viable treatment for joint issues. Here's an interesting paper where researchers genetically engineered chondrocytes to express IGF-1 then implanted them in the joint as defect repair.

Genetic modification of chondrocytes with insulin-like growth factor-1 enhances cartilage healing in an equine model | Bone & Joint

Genetic modification of chondrocytes with insulin-like growth factor-1 enhances cartilage healing in an equine model

boneandjoint.org.uk

This was done in horses which is a good animal model for human joint treatments. Much better to read equine research than rabbit or mouse for this sort of thing.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Having spent quite a bit on Regenexx myself I would also advise those considering it to save your money. The technology isn't there yet.

I am intrigued by your hGH experiment. Hope it continues to go well. I would also consider it to avoid knee surgery.

@Cataceous places like this know people like you and me will spend what ever money we have to, to avoid surgery and quit having pain. It honestly make me angry to see older guys being taken advantage of. When I had to be turned over to a sales associate, I felt like I was buying a used car or something. Sorry you wasted you money. I still have the jury out on this HG thing. I want to see how long this lasts. At $100 a kit for hGH I could buy quite a bit of hGH for what they want for 1 Regenexx treatment. I still have the other shoulder, the knee and low back to deal with.

There has been a few mentions of Regenexx but until you there has been no one actually say they tried it. Thanks for your input.

 

[tareload]

Effects of intraarticular treatment with stanozolol on synovial membrane and cartilage in an ovine model of osteoarthritis

Aim of the study was to verify the clinical and morphological effects of intra-articular stanozolol or placebo treatment, lasting 3 and 9months, in sh…

www.sciencedirect.com

Stanozolol on HRT

Gents- As a kid I enjoyed Dianabol and especially Anadrol. I'm not into the Grey and Black market these days as I'm 38 and top old for that BS. My doc only offers 2 oral [in the title]. I never tried Var bc it's often faked but of course the pharmacy will he real. Still it's very expensive...

www.excelmale.com

I will report back if I ever try it.

 

[robegu]

Several things:

- Review the "fixes for joint issues" thread
- Eliminate from your diet any high-risk foods that could be causing an inflammatory reaction in joints such as wheat and whey
- BPC/TB500/DMSO as discussed elsewhere here
- GH secretagougues
- Be sure your gait/posture is perfect
- Glucosamine/Chondroitin
- Investigate prolotherapy/dry needling
- Have a proper stem cell eval done. Regenexx is a good provider
- Hyaluronic acid injections

There are other things but that is a good place to start.

Several things:

- Review the "fixes for joint issues" thread
- Eliminate from your diet any high-risk foods that could be causing an inflammatory reaction in joints such as wheat and whey
- BPC/TB500/DMSO as discussed elsewhere here
- GH secretagougues
- Be sure your gait/posture is perfect
- Glucosamine/Chondroitin
- Investigate prolotherapy/dry needling
- Have a proper stem cell eval done. Regenexx is a good provider
- Hyaluronic acid injections

There are other things but that is a good place to start.

This is a fairly complete list. I would add; Hylauronic acid in liguid/oral form is a must. I use "Neocell" brand which is definately bioavailable, its helped me tremendously and you can feel it a few days. The Injections are actually not good for the tissue long term. but are a good short term. A collagen supplement also helps. Glucosamine/chondroitin generally has low bioavailability, but it seems to help some people, I have tried various forms with no luck.. secretagougues are good , but the real GH is even better, you can get chinese GH on the internet for about 10-20% of the price and get about 80% of the benefit. I have had tremendous success with Prolotherapy on my spine and neck, not so much for my knees
Good luck.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Effects of intraarticular treatment with stanozolol on synovial membrane and cartilage in an ovine model of osteoarthritis

Aim of the study was to verify the clinical and morphological effects of intra-articular stanozolol or placebo treatment, lasting 3 and 9months, in sh…

www.sciencedirect.com

Stanozolol on HRT

Gents- As a kid I enjoyed Dianabol and especially Anadrol. I'm not into the Grey and Black market these days as I'm 38 and top old for that BS. My doc only offers 2 oral [in the title]. I never tried Var bc it's often faked but of course the pharmacy will he real. Still it's very expensive...

www.excelmale.com

I will report back if I ever try it.

Seems like the key phrase I keep seeing in all of these solutions is "stimulating IGF-1 production." Perhaps intra-articular injections of IGF-1 would be a good idea?

 

[tareload]

Seems like the key phrase I keep seeing in all of these solutions is "stimulating IGF-1 production." Perhaps intra-articular injections of IGF-1 would be a good idea?

Commercial product...

Nandrolone and Mood Poll

Background: There is no shortage of threads and posts on nandrolone. Further, there are numerous opinions on the mental side effects of nandrolone. However, personal anecdotes vary widely with respect to how nandrolone affects mood. Like all hormones, nandrolone's affect one's physiology...

www.excelmale.com

Clive Brittain second Newmarket trainer to reveal Sungate use on horses

Clive Brittain has become the second Newmarket trainer to reveal that Sungate was used on his horses

www.theguardian.com

AEC Client Education - Sungate®

Must have some efficacy if giving to the racehorses. Big bucks.

 

[tareload]

Effect of a single intra-articular administration of stanozolol in a naturally occurring canine osteoarthritis model: a randomised trial - Scientific Reports

Osteoarthritis (OA) is a disease with a high negative impact on patient’s quality of life and a high financial burden. It is a source of chronic pain and affects all mammals, including humans and dogs. As the dog is a common model for translation research of human OA, and exploring spontaneous...

www.nature.com

Dose-Finding Study for Intraarticular Treatment With Stanozolol in Horses

Recent reports accounted for the intraarticular (IA) use of the stanozolol in the horse as a disease-modifying drug without any previous specific indi…

www.sciencedirect.com

Stanzolol for Horses with Osteoarthritis - Kentucky Equine Research

While many veterinarians first reach for methylprednisolone or triamcinolone when medicating arthritic joints, new research shows that stanzolol may be useful as an intra-articular medication for osteoarthritis.

ker.com

Anabolic Steroid Can Help Repair Joint Issues In Horses, But Use With Caution - Horse Racing News | Paulick Report

You may be used to thinking of anabolic steroids with respect to doping, but veterinarians say they can help with joint issues.

paulickreport.com

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1947603520906597

Intra-articular Injections With Either Triamcinolone Hexacetonide, Stanozolol, Hylan G-F 20, or a Platelet Concentrate Improve Clinical Signs in Police Working Dogs With Bilateral Hip Osteoarthritis - PMC

Objectives: To compare the effect of intra-articular treatment with triamcinolone hexacetonide (TH), stanozolol, hyaluronan, and a platelet concentrate in police working dogs with bilateral hip osteoarthritis (OA). Study Design: Prospective, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Seems like the key phrase I keep seeing in all of these solutions is "stimulating IGF-1 production." Perhaps intra-articular injections of IGF-1 would be a good idea?

That's as interesting idea, as is stanozolol (and while we're at it, it would be interesting to see if nandrolone had a synergistic affect under the conditions you're creating.) If I understand the creation of IGF-1 through the liver correctly, the IA injections would create an IA GH spike but not an IGF-1 spike, so both might by helpful.

Also, collagen amino acids (or at least glycine) seem logical as well since you are creating an environment which should stimulate healing, but not necessarily creating a similar spike in the building blocks for healing.

 

[Dmods]

yea def try to avoid surgery unless you you cannot stand it and wait 6 more months. know so many guys who saw the awesome young and very rich sports dr who loved giving surgery to anyone he could.. they thought because dr said lets do it it meant it would help... lol more so they make the big bucks in the OR.. and that bit sore shoulder they wish to have back as spent years and years recovering from surgery to get near the old normal pain/movement wise..

I would like to make a note about BPC and TB peptides... just so folks are aware. yes BPC will help pain, however its mechanism of action isn't what you may assume... that is to say, the "healing" isn't healing rather feeling better (which is great), BPC acts on the brain like anti depressants also BPC has a similar side effect profile..flat mood, stimulants work less etc... but also "healing" of broken bones in animals and tendon bone healing is also found in animals(like BPC) with prozac... so the folks who studied the peptides mirrored studies already done by other antidepressants that had shown healing in animals.. as it turns out the "healing" in animals was because under less stress/pain and they moved around less as less social stress... antidepressants are also Rx for pain... something to keep in mind, may not "heal" like u think just feel better. also it seems people who have history of anxiety or depression tend to be the ones who felt BPC "healed" there torn tendon in a week(which of course is not possible), feeling less pain in a day or 2 is though..

TB can increase bodies immune response which sounds great, however if covid taught us anything its that over stimulated immune response with high levels of cytokinins which can cause inflamation over active immune responses. so if take TB def dont take it if recently had covid, may get more antibodies which again is sorta nice but they are also what causes alot of the damage from covid aswell as the vaccine.. that is to say just because a study hasn't looked into long term use or even side effects of whatever peptide doesn't mean they dont exist even if blogs from clinics make it seem otherwise. so proceed with caution with peptides. kind of scares me when people get allergic reaction to TB or thyma 4 and the naturopathy folks say its "detox" and keep using..

EDIT:

im sure other things are happening and perhaps not binary however side effect profile and effect just appear to mirror antidepressants so very closely and of course BPC has been studied for its antidepressant properties. I have little doubt that people get relief and that in and of itself is remarkable never mind if help heal aswell! I just would be wary of long term use. would be interesting if cat or dog saliva holds such healing gastric peptides like BPC...

im sure this bone tendon healing study sounds familiar to the BPC folks

Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor Promotes Bone-Tendon Interface Healing in a Rotator Cuff Tear Rat Model - Tissue Engineering and Regenerative Medicine

Background: Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) is believed to accelerate wound healing, and thus expected to have a positive effect on rotator cuff repair. We hypothesized that SSRI has a positive effect on the healing of the bone-tendon interface (BTI), and improved rotator cuff tear...

link.springer.com

or

Histologic and Biomechanical Evaluation of the Effects of Social Stress and the Antidepressant Fluoxetine on Tendon Healing in Rats

Thieme E-Books & E-Journals

www.thieme-connect.com

antidepressants heal bone fractures.... sound familiar?

Effects of social stress and fluoxetine treatment on fracture healing in a rat femur fracture model

Mental stress and depressive disorders have negative effect on bone biology and increase fracture risk. Fluoxetine is a widely used selective serotoni…

www.sciencedirect.com

antidepressants heal peptic ulcers...

Tricyclic Antidepressant Therapy for Peptic Ulcer Disease

• The role of tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs) as agents for treatment of peptic ulcer disease is of growing interest. In both placebo-controlled clinical trials and comparative studies with cimetidine, TCAs have proved effective and safe as ulcerhealing agents. The mechanism of action by which...

jamanetwork.com

what's interesting is that BPC was found to reduce serotonin syndrome... one would think it would just be lowering serotonin or at least stopping its release?? or counteracts the drug given to induce SS... SS btw can be caused by antidepressants. imagine may be why some people get "flat mood" /anhedonia/caffiene or ADHD meds stop working from BPC-157.


make sure u get real stem cells if actually want best chance to work, and not the concentrated blood.

omegas and at least a small dose of quality protein mix and fibre, hemp seeds flax seeds 2 tablespoons a day keeps intestines happy and omegas/protein is wonderful, nails hair eyes skin all get nicer/stronger, have to assume helps internals stay lubricated/less inflamed too. aminos with nutrient dense food/vitamins seems to really have a synergy and guess it has to do with chelation to drive nutrients into your body and help growth and healing.

stay away from iron supplements unless deficient as promotes oxidation/inflammation.

I purchased from Precision Peptides whom I found through this sites forums and have been taking it now for 1 week.. Out of all the research I have done and all the good I've heard about bpc157 this now leaves me in question to your theory on it's "healing" properties... I have horizontal and vertical tear on left side meniscus on my right knee. The MRI shows "complex tear" surgeons words it's mangled.. She could not give me a good answer when I asked what would you do.. In the end she felt like surgery was best.. Now, I left saying ok because I could hardly walk without crutches and already 1month in from when it tore on October 2.

That being said, I didn't; like her answer and after looking deeper into surgery and all the failures with my kind of tear, I felt it was best to let this heal slow and naturally the best it can, because it was getting better from the day it happened..

I couldn't raise my right shoulder without pain for about 4 years after snapping something in my right upper arm and to this day I am careful with certain activities and putting a coat on without raising my arm to high.. Even though it feels fine my body adapted to the injury IMO..Point being we do/can heal naturally if we eat right and take care of ourselves and give it time...

I would like more incite on where you gathered your information, in other words, is it's anti depressant properties making us not feel pain just your theory?

I have just ordered a large supply of bpc157 and was going to be adding TB500 into the mix, however, I am now questioning on moving forward with this routine.. What are your thoughts on this and what do you know about TB500 that I may have missed?

Had I seen this post during all my research on bpc157 I don't think I would have bought it and began this home trial..

There is no doubt this acts as an anti depressent because I have documented ALL my side effects or rather how I feel.. and I will try to share that in the next few days..

Seeing this is almost a year old Big Tex how is your knee and did this work for you..?

I could go on and on but wanted to post this before I go to sleep..

Just want to give a BIG Thanks to you, Big Tex and all the others who share there information as we subject ourselves to our own human trials with live data and new research!

Cheers
D

 

[granger]

I think huberman had been reading my posts(hehe or came to the same conclusion as me) and also uses "healing" in quotations aswell as recently highlighted possible danger. his major concern was of course increasing cancer blood flow.. but there are other concerns re mental effects. Although some people dont have issues, but who knows whats going to happen to some people who take for 5 years and stop..

many people find pain relief from BPC i have little doubt. but yes the loss of pain within a week or 2 of starting BPC with a chronic injury is most certainly nerve related and part of the antidepressant properties. also could be inflammatory cascade that is stopped aswell once pain stops. some people say "anti cancer" by causing angiogenesis which is sort of the opposite of what a cancer DR would say. you dont want more vessels being grown in random places.

in my humble opinion if have tried PT and solid 8 months with NO change and talkign surgery, def BPC for a month is prob an ok choice esp if nothing has been found wrong that you could be just re injuring if it feels better.

I think folks forget sometimes will just take time.. ive had injuries that took years to get better. they wanted to do surgery, but seeing friends who did surgery esp while we were young always seemed far worse off. broken bones in a cast for 4 months and destroying ACL. unstable for several years but it came back slowly

i am just a little concerned about how many people are using BPC willy nilly for no real major issue and taking it long term.

negative experiences on peptide groups are discounted and often deleted (or never approved) as the peptide sellers basically run those groups.