SubQ subpar?

Jay · Sep 20, 2015

I switched to SubQ about 3 weeks ago and have lost a little bit of muscle, plus am not feeling the effects of T as much (60 mg - 3x week). I wonder if due to genetics or the fact that I am a fast metabolizer of T it is better to do IM again?

The obvious solution is to go back to Nelsons shoulder injection...just wondering if anybody else tried both approaches and noticed a difference.

Vince · Sep 20, 2015

It seems both SubQ and IM are both very popular, personally I don't think one is better than the other. Whatever you're more comfortable with, I really enjoy using Nelson's method, injecting in the shoulders. Proper testing and how you feel should tell you if you doing it right.

chrismez · Sep 20, 2015

I don't think you are going to loose any muscle in 3 weeks from switching to subq.. The test is absorbed into the body no matter what way you inject it. I found no difference between the 2 according to blood work I've done. I've been doing sub q for the last year and a half and love it, very easy. What effects are you not feeling after switching to sub q??

Jay · Sep 20, 2015

libido drop, tightness in muscles...little things but noticeable. I take tape measurements and lost 1/4" on most muscle groups...could be water, but only thing that has changed is SubQ vs IM. Diet/macros/calories are all the same...same workout, etc

Nelson Vergel · Sep 20, 2015

I consider my method shallow IM
https://www.excelmale.com/?s=149-Ho...o-Preserve-Fertility-Libido-and-Testicle-Size

My T level went up by 300 points when I switched to 100 mg per week (plus 500 IU HCG twice per week) to this 50 mg + 500 IU HCG twice per week. Better absorption and better pharmacokinetics? I would love to see data on this.

James · Sep 20, 2015

Nelson - Is your SHBG fairly high? I'm thinking if a guy had higher SHBG and injected twice weekly, the shallow IM would be ideal. If a guy had low SHBG and metabolized the drug quickly, maybe a deeper IM injection would be better for this kind of guy. Your thoughts?

Nelson Vergel · Sep 20, 2015

Not really. My free T is 3% of total.

Re-Ride · Sep 20, 2015

And what if your free is 21% of total? (541/113) and SHBG is 22.7?

canatct · Sep 20, 2015

I was doing IM and my total T was 725+, free T 30.3 (above range), and good E2 levels. Switched to EOD subq and total T and free T dropped (free T down to 13), and E2 rose to highest level ever. Now I'm back on IM. We're all different. Just because something is working for 99 other guys doesn't mean it will for you.

James · Sep 21, 2015

Nelson - Do you agree shallow IM would, in theory, work better in someone with high/normal SHBG. I suggested it to my doc and he said since I have low SHBG and burn through the test pretty quick, a deeper IM injection is better.

Vince Carter · Sep 21, 2015

Re-Ride said:
And what if your free is 21% of total? (541/113) and SHBG is 22.7?

your Free T is not 21%; post your labs so we can see that lol

Jk78 · Sep 21, 2015

On another TRT forum (don't remember which one right now) they had members post T levels doing subq verse IM. The amounts injected and frequency remained constant. Thesr non-scientific postings suggested subq in the abdomen area resulted in lower T levels compared to IM. Subq in the thigh showed similar results to IM. It also seemed the leaner someone was, under 20% body fat, the better the results of subq. I've started at 50mg test cyp subq twice a week, now doing thigh injections only, and am taking my first blood work this Saturday. I will be certain to post my results.

Jay · Sep 21, 2015

canatct
Thanks for that information. I am switching back to IM shoulder to see how I feel. I just know that at near max dosage my Total T is real low, as my SHBG is also low, but the higher free T does not seem to make a great deal of difference on how I feel. I know when I used 500 mg per week in my bodybuilding days I did deep injection in the thigh (which I hated) and felt great...although underground stuff is generally under dosed so it was probably more like 350-400 mg per week. Dunno. Regardless, I just want to not burn through this stuff so quick and piss it all out.

Vince Carter · Sep 21, 2015

My perspective is that life get's easier if you stop with the subq and IM and simply inject in your location of choice. In that same zip code is delts are no better than quads are no better than glutes.

More so...a lot of talk and no lab results posted...hmmmmm