Starting on cream, but it's low potency... What should I do.

[rain]

Okay so total test was 144 nd/dL .
Doc wanted to put me on gel, but I told him about the cream and he said okay.
I showed him the chart on this page https://www.lawleybasecamp.com/media/pdf/pi/androforte-5-pi.pdf
I said that I was concerned dosing just once a day would leave me with mostly low-ish levels throughout the day, but he said it falls like that in nature so it doesn't really matter and he said something like "these are people that aren't on it for a while" and that he expects my levels to be better. After pressing a bit more he said we could do an extra blood test before an application to see, as well as one 4-6 hours after.
He prescribed 2ml once in the morning, and didn't seem to care whether I put it on the scrotum or torso. I think he started with 2ml because the official dr stuff you pull up here only talks about torso of 2ml, where as the scrotum stuff usually says 1ml.

I'm 4 days in so far.

There's only one option for cream here, which is the one in that link. It is 50mg per ml. Whenever you guys talk about clicks, am I correct that's 0.25ml? If so, then this cream is 4x less potent.

_________

I am conflicted on what to do because... What comes back on those blood tests will determine whether I get given a higher amount or not, and damnit knowing you guys are on 200mg, and that this cream is less potent too, I really might end up needing more. If the 6hours after says 1300ng/dL and the just-before says 480ng/dL, he might want to cut my dose or keep it as is. And also, I really don't like the idea of sticking to 2ml once a day for the next 5 weeks. I've been doing 1ml twice a day instead for now.. I'm wondering, should I maybe go without ANY the day before the test, then dose just 1ml and get it tested? But then I might have to keep up that fib the whole way and I'll never get accurate bloodwork.

I honestly doubt 2ml gives double of 1ml, because 1ml is a lot of cream anyway, 2ml is pretty greasy, there has to be a limit on what can absorb down there. I feel like 2ml twice a day is probably bang on what I should be dosing just from everything I'm reading, but even that "200mg" might be less potent due to the amount of cream it's dispersed in.

Have a look at the chart on that pdf, and let me know what you think. I do want to be optimised 24/7. I've lived a shell of a life I need to make up for lost time. Sorry if I'm getting too ahead of myself, I just don't want to get stuck not feeling as good as I could feel.

 

[Systemlord]

The injectable testosterone is preferred because levels are very steady if on the appropriate protocol, the creams do not always keep stable levels. The fact that your doctor wanted you on androgel speaks volumes to his skill level as a TRT doctor.

It seems like you are left trying to figure everything out by yourself because your doctors is inept at managing your TRT protocol. Finding a good TRT doctor in managed healthcare is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

You need to post all revent labs including reference ranges, like SHBG and pre-TRT estrogen levels. If Total T is all you have, well that's like starting a marathon without shoes on.

 

[rain]

All I got is the total testosterone, and estrogen has never been checked, nor will it be checked this next time. Can you theorise a bit on what it means if SHBG is low, and what it would mean if it was average, and high? edit: my SHBG will be checked this next time though.

of the total testosterone, I measured a 5 and 4.1, the range is 10-33 nmol/L

But this is reality, I don't think he's that bad so far, although the estrogen thing I'll have to bring up again. I initially tried to get him to test for it, but he said he has never encountered anyone developing breast tissue unless they were taking really large amounts.

In Australia, you can only get TRT if you test less than 174 (converted to ng/dL, aussie is 6 nmol/L) TWICE, so I can understand how not many endo's get to treat patients.

 

[rain]

Another thing, we don't have testosterone vials here, only pre-filled syringes, which scares me off further because I won't have a chance to get the perfect dosing, nor be able to use thinner insulin needles.

I'm confident enough that the scrotal cream will work. There's enough evidence around that it has good enough and consistent absorption, it's just being plain testosterone the effects are more short-lived and as you say, not stable. But then again like my doc said, human levels arent stable either!

 

[Tman]

Okay so total test was 144 nd/dL .
Doc wanted to put me on gel, but I told him about the cream and he said okay.
I showed him the chart on this page https://www.lawleybasecamp.com/media/pdf/pi/androforte-5-pi.pdf
I said that I was concerned dosing just once a day would leave me with mostly low-ish levels throughout the day, but he said it falls like that in nature so it doesn't really matter and he said something like "these are people that aren't on it for a while" and that he expects my levels to be better. After pressing a bit more he said we could do an extra blood test before an application to see, as well as one 4-6 hours after.
He prescribed 2ml once in the morning, and didn't seem to care whether I put it on the scrotum or torso. I think he started with 2ml because the official dr stuff you pull up here only talks about torso of 2ml, where as the scrotum stuff usually says 1ml.

I'm 4 days in so far.

There's only one option for cream here, which is the one in that link. It is 50mg per ml. Whenever you guys talk about clicks, am I correct that's 0.25ml? If so, then this cream is 4x less potent.

_________

I am conflicted on what to do because... What comes back on those blood tests will determine whether I get given a higher amount or not, and damnit knowing you guys are on 200mg, and that this cream is less potent too, I really might end up needing more. If the 6hours after says 1300ng/dL and the just-before says 480ng/dL, he might want to cut my dose or keep it as is. And also, I really don't like the idea of sticking to 2ml once a day for the next 5 weeks. I've been doing 1ml twice a day instead for now.. I'm wondering, should I maybe go without ANY the day before the test, then dose just 1ml and get it tested? But then I might have to keep up that fib the whole way and I'll never get accurate bloodwork.

I honestly doubt 2ml gives double of 1ml, because 1ml is a lot of cream anyway, 2ml is pretty greasy, there has to be a limit on what can absorb down there. I feel like 2ml twice a day is probably bang on what I should be dosing just from everything I'm reading, but even that "200mg" might be less potent due to the amount of cream it's dispersed in.

Have a look at the chart on that pdf, and let me know what you think. I do want to be optimised 24/7. I've lived a shell of a life I need to make up for lost time. Sorry if I'm getting too ahead of myself, I just don't want to get stuck not feeling as good as I could feel.

Just follow your doctor's orders and be honest with him or her. and if it's not working it's not working if the doctor can't adjust then you got the wrong doctor but don't start playing games with your dosage. And don't buy into the shots are better and you need an AI and you got to have HCG and all that other crap before you at least give it a shot. In
the long run your life will be a whole lot simpler if a little cream take care of what you need.

 

[Vince Carter]

I concur with following your Dr's script, for the time being, and adjust with some labs, later even though you think it is a week cream/dose.

Remember, apply the cream about 2hrs prior to your blood test.

 

[rain]

A bit of an update, 12 days in.

dosing wise, 2ml on the scrotum is too much liquid. The max that can really contain is probably 1.5ml. So I've been mostly doing 1.25ml and then 0.75ml later. Putting it on my body would be a waste.

The changes so far have been a bit better sleep, a bit better workouts (still awful), libido coming back and then disappearing, and morning erections are back.

In terms of feeling, I have only really felt better on the days I dose 3ml instead of 2ml, and even then it seems to go quickly. I'm trying to not do it but I seem to not have the best self control.

My worry at the moment is that the end outcome will be that I only feel better when my testosterone is high/optimised constantly (which regular endos probably aren't agreeable on), and using this low strength cream may require 3 or 4 applications a day to do that. That seems impractical.

But it's still too early to really judge for sure, but so far I'm feeling deflated and wish I didn't have another 5 weeks until my next appointment.

 

[Vince Carter]

Will be your boogeyman that will fail you if you can't be consistent with your dose from day-to-day, winging it because you feel X or Y on this or that day is a quick route to failure. At this point you have no reason to second guess the dose or what any one else uses.
Apply your 1mL daily, be consistent every day, and get some tests.

 

[rain]

Thanks Vince. I agree that I need to be more consistent, and I have been better at that lately which is good.

Lately I've been doing 1ml about 3 hours after waking, and 1ml 8 hours after that (so not going over my dose anymore). I would rather wake up, shower, and then apply, but I'm still having a lot of fatigue in the morning and I don't always have the shower available, so hence the delay.

As much as you guys are nudging me to be completely honest with my doctor, I feel that would be risky to my health. There are no other doctors I can go to, no other realistic options available to me, so I have to tread cautious, as I don't know yet. Before the bloodtests my plan is to take a break to reset, then start up at 1ml at just once a day, to demonstrate that the level drops a lot with just once a day dosing. After I can get him on board with twice a day dosing, and get an idea of what TT levels he is okay with me being at, I can start being more honest. If he's the kind that would reduce my dose if at 1000-1300ng/dL, even though that's perfectly healthy and not in anyway an abusive level, then for the sake of my health I will have to continue. I am optimistic that I will be able to be honest soon as he said the most important thing is to see "whether I feel better".

As for an update, it's about day 20 now. Workouts are better again, still bad, but better than last week. Usually I can't do leg workouts properly, because I run out of energy (central nervous system?) before my leg muscles get exhausted enough, but this time my legs felt like tree trunks from the pump. Good sign.
I have had a few tiny pimples on my back, and two on my face. They're small and mostly invisible but that is definitely different.
I also think my body is starting to look less pale lately. I'm not as ghostly, I have a slightly red-ish glow to my face and skin.
Patchy beard areas are still patchy, but maybe SLIGHTLY better but not enough that I can notice. The already-full areas of my beard though, they are noticeably fuller! My sideburns have a density I have never seen before, and I've had comments about how full it's looking under my chin. It's funny I hadn't even been noticing until someone pointed this out, as I was only interested in the patchy parts filling in more lol.
The thigh leg hair next to my balls are longer than usual, like, literally 2 inches long, strange effect. I've also had a few skin tags show up on this skin, which I plucked out. That's probably the strangest effect as I usually never get skin tags. It does seem like the testosterone causes some local effects in the skin.
I'm up 12lbs, and my scale seems to think I've gone from 24-25% body fat, to 26-27%. I look more bloated in the face, but it's not terrible. I think the majority is muscle and water. I do want to lose fat, but I don't want to diet yet as I feel it could jeopardise this initial 'recovery' from having low testosterone for so long. I'm hoping maybe soon my body fat % will start to naturally go down when I'm able to increase the intensity of my workouts.
I think the hair on my head has increased in density slightly, and I haven't noticed any hair loss.

Sometimes I notice a calmness and good feeling in my head/mind after dosing. It usually starts after 30 minutes, and then usually lasts less than 2 hours, sometimes only 20 minutes. I wonder if maybe this is the feeling of when my total testosterone is spiking into an optimal level.

Sometimes I find annoying people more annoying, sort of like I'm more repelled by needy people and people getting in my way of something. That's pretty different, in the past I've had more patience and given my attention away more easily. I don't mind the change though, as it's probably the more normal way to feel. And on the flip side I feel like I focus more intensely on the people I really like. These feelings seem to turn on and off though, and I don't know if it's an acute dose/absorption thing or if it's because things are in the process of changing. It is annoying to not always feel one way.

Energy levels are only slightly better, which is the main problem in my life. Still early days though

 

[rain]

day 30 now.

Compared to 10 days ago...

I got burnt out from light amounts of working out, and that involved me being in bed just alllll day for a few days. It sucked, and was something I really hoped this would improve.

Libido is honestly just not good. I think in week 2, I was waking up with erections in the morning etc and was feeling a good drive! But that almost doesn't happen at all now. Weird how that has progressed backwards. I occasionally kinda get some sorta feeling but it doesn't last. I wonder if that's an estrogen thing.

I'm getting seborrheic dermatitis on my thighs where the cream rubs off. I get this on my face, back and chest though. But yeah... I think that confirms I can't keep this cream up. I'm also having a really hard time applying consistently in the morning due to my excessive tiredness. I'm still exhausted, noticeably better sure, but, that doesn't mean much.

And I've given up on the idea of trying to convince him to let me dose twice a day. I'm still doing that, but, I can't keep this up. It's just too annoying, for me. If I had better energy and felt like a normal person, maybe I could manage it, but nah. Twice a day is just twice as much annoyance.

And gels, I'm sure would burn the heck out of my skin in other places where I have the dermatitis. so that's out.

So yeah, not a great 10 days... But at least I've gone through this and am now more convinced I need to move onto injections and not keep this up. Hoping that with injections, I'll achieve a steady level.

My biggest issue with injections is it seems test undecanoate 1000mg is my only viable option, and there's no way I'd only inject once every 10 weeks so I need to be able to split it up myself. I will probably have to keep that a secret. I'm getting the impression that all the doctors are too afraid to write a prescription for any protocol that isn't routine, as even the main 'good' TRT doctor here writes bad protocols on his prescriptions (like 250mg test e once every 2 weeks), but expects his patients to do otherwise.

What sucks is, 1000 / 10 weeks = 100mg, and 100mg testU is like 90mg TestE/C, which probably is not enough per week. I'm hoping I can push him to at least every 8 weeks, but honestly it sounds like it should be every 6 weeks -_-. I will talk about the 'loading dose', and how that's usually another injection after 6 weeks, that might make him more flexible. If he doesn't budge, I might have to just fill my prescription earlier and hope he doesn't notice.

I kind of hate that I have to doctor myself like this. Like jesus, just give me 125mg of testosterone a week in something that I can break the dose up easily. This country is so backwards.