Started TRT .... Looking forward (updated w 8/20/18 Labs)
- Thread starter AntCon
- Start date
But ya with a SHBG that low you definitely need to go EOD or ED injections. You can do E3.5 days but it's not going to be optimal for you. So why not just try and optimal protocol from the start to save time. ED would be ideal with your SHBG, but if that's too many injections, definitely go EOD.
Also, I would wait to start the AI. If you took it along with your first injection, that could absolutely be the reason why you feel more tired. I personally would drop it completely during this first run and see where your E2 falls after your first blood work. Your E2 was surprisingly higher than I thought it would be considering your low total T. So there's a chance it could elevate quite a bit on this protocol, but I would see how you feel without it first. If you are going to use it, I would at least wait a couple weeks before implementing it. Also I think you might of had the regular E2 test done. The sensitive E2 test is what you want. The regular E2 test usually always come back higher than the sensitive, so if this was the regular test, then ur sensitive E2 is most likely lower than 24.
So definitely up the frequency of injections. If not, what's going to happen is you're going to get your testosterone at trough checked and it's gonna come back lower than you'd probably like because you're excreting it too quickly. And you're going to think a dose increase is needed which will elevate everything else like E2 and possibly prolactin. Which is gonna require you to use more AI. When in reality all you need to do is increase the frequency, and even with the same dosage your testosterone levels might come back just where you want them. And this way you might not even need an AI. And if you can avoid using an AI, trust me, it's 100% the way to go
Also, I would wait to start the AI. If you took it along with your first injection, that could absolutely be the reason why you feel more tired. I personally would drop it completely during this first run and see where your E2 falls after your first blood work. Your E2 was surprisingly higher than I thought it would be considering your low total T. So there's a chance it could elevate quite a bit on this protocol, but I would see how you feel without it first. If you are going to use it, I would at least wait a couple weeks before implementing it. Also I think you might of had the regular E2 test done. The sensitive E2 test is what you want. The regular E2 test usually always come back higher than the sensitive, so if this was the regular test, then ur sensitive E2 is most likely lower than 24.
So definitely up the frequency of injections. If not, what's going to happen is you're going to get your testosterone at trough checked and it's gonna come back lower than you'd probably like because you're excreting it too quickly. And you're going to think a dose increase is needed which will elevate everything else like E2 and possibly prolactin. Which is gonna require you to use more AI. When in reality all you need to do is increase the frequency, and even with the same dosage your testosterone levels might come back just where you want them. And this way you might not even need an AI. And if you can avoid using an AI, trust me, it's 100% the way to go
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Thanks for the reply. Yes , in regards to the low SHBG, it was in the back of my head about EOD injections. While talking with Dr. Saya though, we decided on me trying every 3.5 days first and seeing how it works out for me. Which I have no problem with, especially since ideally, the less frequent I have to inject the better.
As far as my E2 , it was the ultrasensitive test. My E2 was actually even higher in a set of labs I had done last year @ 31.. So when I was on Clomid, I actually was on an AI with that too. This came into play , when deciding if I should be on an AI along with TRT. I'm going to consider getting labs done anyhow at the 3 .5 week mark since my insurance covers it, just to get an idea where everything is sitting at. What are your opinions on that? I'll still stick out the protocol until my follow up with the doc though, unless there's anything alarming I notice.
Would increasing frequency of injection eliminate the need for an AI ? Or is that just dependent on the person ? I'd be curioious to know if there is anyone in this forum that has EOD or even Everyday injections and still has to use an AI.
Systemlord
Member
You will have good days and bad days, it's guaranteed. The same thing can be said on a protocol change even long after you've been on TRT for awhile. I always have a worse time by week 3, it's always bad for me. This is when I start doubting everything in life and remind myself I'm BS'ing myself and snap out of it. Week 4 is magic, this is when my erections say hello.
The thing I hate is if you make the slightest dosage change it resets the 6 weeks until you reach a stable state, so don't. A lot of new guys make that mistake and wonder why they never feel good.
Yea that's what I figuring. I know times are gonna be hard during this but I definitely won't change anything , unless recommended by the doc at follow up.. Im just gonna have to have my wife slap me up a couple times to snap me out of it lol. I'm looking forward to that week 4 magic though haha. Just hope I feel it by then , as I've read for some it's sooner and others later.
Ya I think labs at the 3.5 week mark would be a great idea. The testosterone cypionate will still be increasing and raising your total T after this point for another 2-3 weeks or so, but your HCG and anastrozole will have both reached a steady state, so it will give you a decent peak into where things are and where things will probably end up. Most importantly it will let you know what the anastrozole is doing to your E2.
Increasing frequency will pretty much decrease E2 in everyone. I've personally only heard of that not being the case with maybe 1-2 guys out of hundreds, possibly thousands of posts at this point. With you having such a low SHBG, you're not going to need a high amount of total testosterone to get a good free T, so if you were to increase the frequency of your injections, and use the minimum dose needed to get your free T into a good range, I'd say the chances of you not needing an AI are very high.
An AI is usually needed more for high SHBG guys that require a higher total T to get a good level of free T, but with you having a higher E2 to begin with, you might possibly be the exception to that. I'm very curious to find out, as are you I'm sure.
Increasing frequency will pretty much decrease E2 in everyone. I've personally only heard of that not being the case with maybe 1-2 guys out of hundreds, possibly thousands of posts at this point. With you having such a low SHBG, you're not going to need a high amount of total testosterone to get a good free T, so if you were to increase the frequency of your injections, and use the minimum dose needed to get your free T into a good range, I'd say the chances of you not needing an AI are very high.
An AI is usually needed more for high SHBG guys that require a higher total T to get a good level of free T, but with you having a higher E2 to begin with, you might possibly be the exception to that. I'm very curious to find out, as are you I'm sure.
Alright , yea , I think will get those labs then for sure. When looking at lab work how can you tell what the HCG is doing for you? Is there anything specific to look for that correlates to taking HCG?
Thanks Gman , I really appreciate all the info and advice. I'll definitely be keeping all this in mind as things go forward.
Thanks Gman , I really appreciate all the info and advice. I'll definitely be keeping all this in mind as things go forward.
Anytime man, that’s what this forum is here for. To help eachother out.
With the HCG I don’t think there’s any blood test that specifically will tell you about the HCG in your system. I think the only things you can really go by are testicular size and a semen test to see how much sperm you are producing and the quality of them. Other than those two things idk how else you would be able to tell if the HCG is working, and to what degree. Does anyone else know of any tests?
With the HCG I don’t think there’s any blood test that specifically will tell you about the HCG in your system. I think the only things you can really go by are testicular size and a semen test to see how much sperm you are producing and the quality of them. Other than those two things idk how else you would be able to tell if the HCG is working, and to what degree. Does anyone else know of any tests?
Dr Justin Saya MD
Moderator
Debatable, but potentially 17-OH progesterone as an upstream marker.
Serum quantitative beta hCG level can be checked to show actual serum levels, but as you stated testicular size and, if fertility is considered, semen analysis are the common measuring sticks.
Lol, thanks again Gman and thanks Dr. Saya.
Well my testes seem fine , although it's still early, nothings changed there since starting my protocol. And I'll definitely be getting my semen tested then down the road as I still want to have more kids. Dam, I probably should of gotten it tested prior then so I could see how it's affecting my lil dudes when I do get then tested.
Well my testes seem fine , although it's still early, nothings changed there since starting my protocol. And I'll definitely be getting my semen tested then down the road as I still want to have more kids. Dam, I probably should of gotten it tested prior then so I could see how it's affecting my lil dudes when I do get then tested.
Hey all, hope all is well. I’ll be having a 3 week update coming Monday.
In the meantime I have a cpl questions. I’m using 29g 1/2” Easy Touch Insulin Syringe for delt injections. I’ve never aspirated , but today when pulling the needle out after injection, a decent size dribble of blood came out. I highly doubt I injected into my vein, but it got me thinking .... a lot lol..
Do you guys think I hit a vein or went through one?
I know a lot of you don’t aspirate and some do, but I think I might start. If I do aspirate and see boood in the syringe , what should I do? Can I just re-inject in a different spot?
In the meantime I have a cpl questions. I’m using 29g 1/2” Easy Touch Insulin Syringe for delt injections. I’ve never aspirated , but today when pulling the needle out after injection, a decent size dribble of blood came out. I highly doubt I injected into my vein, but it got me thinking .... a lot lol..
Do you guys think I hit a vein or went through one?
I know a lot of you don’t aspirate and some do, but I think I might start. If I do aspirate and see boood in the syringe , what should I do? Can I just re-inject in a different spot?
Vince
Super Moderator
I'm sure you did not inject into a vein, when someone injects into a vein the oil pools in your lung, it causes you to cough and is painful. I've never done it though, I've never felt the sensation. I would say you nicked a vein, something I have done a number of times over the years. I just wipe off the blood and go on my way.
Hitting a vein in delt
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?7457-Hitting-a-vein-in-delt
Hitting a vein in delt
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?7457-Hitting-a-vein-in-delt
Ya I agree with Vince, I highly doubt u injected into a vein. I’ve been injecting EOD into my outer thighs for a year or two now, and have aspirated every single injection, and I’ve still had blood dribble out plenty of times. Haven’t had blood dribble in a while tho, which makes me think my HCT is up and blood is a little thicker.
And ya if u aspirate and see blood, just pull out and inject into another area. No need to throw that syringe and the testosterone away.
And ya if u aspirate and see blood, just pull out and inject into another area. No need to throw that syringe and the testosterone away.
albert9000
New Member
Hope all is well Antcon, I am following your progress as our symptoms are VERY similar and i am about to start TRT in the coming weeks. keep me posted please!
Dr Justin Saya MD
Moderator
Yes that’s okay assuming site was sterilized properly.
Ok soounds good, that's good to know. Thanks Dr. Saya
Hey thanks , all is pretty ok so far.. Still early though. But yes , I will definitely keep updating as time progresses. Do you have a thread started already I can follow as well?
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