SARMs versus AAS: Different Side Effects?

[tareload]

Readalot.....speaking of dropping the prices, check this out (this is for real too)
Oxandrolone 25mg 100-ct $85
Oxandrolone 10mg 100-ct $55

This is from your Chinese source?


Numbers I shared above were from compounding pharmacies. Hoyes closed down but plenty of others. Obviously Empower going strong.

How is your arrythmia and heart doing? I hope you are feeling better. My gym stuff had been suffering as I get panic attacks on a regular basis if I try to shift into 4th gear. Super frustrating.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

This is from your Chinese source?


Numbers I shared above were from compounding pharmacies. Hoyes closed down but plenty of others. Obviously Empower going strong.

How is your arrythmia and heart doing? I hope you are feeling better. My gym stuff had been suffering as I get panic attacks on a regular basis if I try to shift into 4th gear. Super frustrating.

Most likely that Oxandrolone was made from Chinese raws but comes from a domestic source which yes is a source I have dealt with. This just shows how much are being over charged here in the good old USA. As I said, I got testosterone cypionate from CVS made in India. India is known to use quite a lot of Chinese raws. So there is no real guarantee where our "pharmaceutical" or "compounded" products are coming from. Even my doctor laughed when I showed the cypionate to him and he said, "don't we make anything in the USA anymore?" We went to a local pharmacy and I watched the pharmacists pull a big bottle off the shelf and I noticed the bottle had Indian writing on it. But they didn't charge me Indian prices for the prescription.

This is the price of a very reputable Chinese biochemical lab. A gram makes a whole lot of tabs.
Oxandrolone US$7.0/g US$4650/Kg

Readalot, my cardiologist did an EKG and found the irregular hart beat was not A-fib. He suspected it may be a result of the high hematocrit. I am going Monday to another cardiologist to get a 2nd opinion.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

It wouldn’t be a waste of money because them patenting it is part of what would encourage people to crack down on the SARMs grey market, as the reason they’re sold online is because it’s for supposed research purposes.

At least from a pharmacy, my Oxandrolone is far more expensive.

These companies need investors to do trials etc. Who is going to invest in a drug that is already being manufactured in very large quantities in China? The company that discovered Ligandrol for instance has a patent. Hasn't stopped the Chinese from manufacturing it or companies from all over the world marketing it. Intellectual property means nothing in China. You can simply search "buy Ligandrol" on the internet and find 100's of companies sell it openly. The FDA is honestly doing nothing but sending out cease an desist letters only because they are being pushed by WADA ( U.S. Anti-Doping Agency ). Yes these online companies call them "research products" and usually sell liquid products to skirt the law. If they put it in a pill or cap, the FDA goes after them for selling products intended for human consumption. Most of this is so expensive per dose you are much better off using Oxandrolone.

 

[Anonymon]

These companies need investors to do trials etc. Who is going to invest in a drug that is already being manufactured in very large quantities in China? The company that discovered Ligandrol for instance has a patent. Hasn't stopped the Chinese from manufacturing it or companies from all over the world marketing it. Intellectual property means nothing in China. You can simply search "buy Ligandrol" on the internet and find 100's of companies sell it openly. The FDA is honestly doing nothing but sending out cease an desist letters only because they are being pushed by WADA ( U.S. Anti-Doping Agency ). Yes these online companies call them "research products" and usually sell liquid products to skirt the law. If they put it in a pill or cap, the FDA goes after them for selling products intended for human consumption. Most of this is so expensive per dose you are much better off using Oxandrolone.

I’m well aware of the SARMs market but you’re kind of missing the point. It’s easy as piss to get test underground too, and at far lower prices, but most if not all of us are still getting it from US pharmacies. The fact that Chinese companies put out SARMs isn’t what‘s holding the US made market back because relative to what that market could offer, the SARMs market underground is still almost nothing despite how many guys I’ve known to make a lot of money on it.

Them selling liquids isn’t to get around the FDA, either. The preference for liquids and selling raws for liquids is because you can micro manage your dose down to the mg at times with a low margin of error, whereas with capsules you’re stuck, and with tablets, you can only manage in large chunks. Some people also believe in sublingual and that liquid bases are better for that, that being true or not being anyone’s guess. With liquids you can also make custom stacks if you’re mixing the raws yourself and plenty of guys are stacking all the SARMs with other things like retards.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

So tell me why a drug company like GTx, Inc would spend $32 million dollars and ask for investors to keep their project going? They ran out of money and can't get investors so human trails are stopped. They never make it to the FDA. Especially when there is nothing really positive is coming out of any of them. As an investor, my money would be at risk after Chinese have already stolen intellectual rights and have been marketing this drug for years. Money down the toilet. Not 1 of these SARMS has been approved by the FDA for human use. In fact in I believe 2020, Congress tried to pass to pass the SARMS Control Act putting these in the same basket as anabolic steroids. Since it didn''t pass the FDA has just about thrown up their hand trying to enforce this deluge of SARMS being legally sold on the internet. Like I said, wasting the time on an attorney to file a patent is a total waste of funds. China could care a less about our laws or our patents. I know quite a few of these people in China over the years and even know the Chinese government helps those who pay them money to get around US Customs. Kind of hard to fight this. But theft of intellectual rights has been a big topic over the last few years and now seems to have been dropped.

Absolutely they use liquids to try to attempt to skirt the law. LAW

I was actually in the business for about 8 years and had the advice of an attorney on how to avoid prosecution, which back then no one really cared as it was all new. To get around "selling a unapproved drug" charges by the FDA they have to be sold strictly as "research only" products. Any slight mention on the web site or social media by owners of the owners of the company of the product being used by humans will result in a violation of the law and charges of selling an unapproved drug will be charged. The key is to just sell the product, not be greedy and get out quick. There have already been a few of those charges dropped on some big companies and they in the end forfeited 1-2 years of earnings resulting of $ millions being turned over to the Feds. They also frequently hit them with mail fraud charges. I know of a few guys who have already been through this. When you are selling a liquid form of any "research chemical" you are attempting to skirt the laws, when you sell a pill you are promoting this product for human consumption. Going to be very hard for an attorney to get you off any charges. Heck, I had a friend get charged by the FDA for defrauding the United States government. Its all they could think of I guess.

What these companies do when they get a cease and desist letter from the FDA is immediately close up, shut down their web site and later open as a totally new business. I have dealt with some Chinese nationals who set up domestic reseller web sites, so shipping is domestic and avoid US Customs. The web site are on foreign servers using Chinese banks. Its very hard for a company of this type to use Paypal or any credit card. So once they get the letter from the FDA they are easily moved under a different name a week later and the customer base contacted. This cat and mouse game is played all the time and the FDA does not have the man power to go after all of them. They just get the easy stupid ones.

Here is a clip from the charges in a New Jersey case by the FDA vs AA Peptide Inc. "introduction of misbranded drug to interstate commerce, introduction of unapproved drugs to interstate commerce, operating an unapproved drug manufacturing factory." "The AAP web site included a bogus legal disclaimer that its products were intended for laboratory research only and not as drugs or food." Most of these charges will result in a forfeiture of their annual earnings which is usually in the $millions.

Department of Justice U.S. vs. AA Peptide LLC

Most of the other drugs that we use lost their patent years ago and are now generic drugs which anyone can copy and sell. New drugs have to be developed and sent through the clinical trial process and approved by the FDA and kept under a patent to have any chance to profit and make back for the millions invested. When the Chinese have already beat you to the punch 10-20 years before approval chances and and the drug already being manufactured and sold by the 40gal drums full all over the world you are just wasting time and money trying to make your investment money back. Only a fool would invest. Even if it got FDA approval, how many are going to buy Legandrol from the pharmacy at 25x the amount when you can open up 100's of web site and buy it for a fraction of the price, legally? I get testosterone from the pharmacy ONLY because my insurance pays for it and charges my $14 for 10cc. Hard to beat that price UG.

I have no problem with people buying SARMS or using them. Heck, I sold them on the UG market, yea all liquid products. However, I also had the opportunity to try ALL of them and can safely tell you compared to anabolic steroids these products are a JOKE. Yet I couldn't fill up 30ml vials fast enough to meet the demand. My stuff went for FAR less than what I see most web sites charging. The same with peptides. I paid $2.35 per 100 for most all peptides when you buy 1000's at a time it dropped to just over $1/vial. All excellent products. The profit margin off these are huge as is the demand. Those that get popped are the ones who get greedy and buy multiple homes, multiple expensive cars and live the life of a cartel member. So yes, I know the market too well.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I just have to add one more thing I over looked. Making big doses of liquids is VERY easy. My customers bitched about it because it was too hard to manage doing liquids as compared to just swallowing a pill. So they eventually wanted pills. Making pills involved a huge expense that most are not ever going bother with as you need a very expensive pill press. This baby spits out about 400,000/hr at a nice price of well over $10,000.

TPR 500 Tablet Press​

 

[tareload]

I get testosterone from the pharmacy ONLY because my insurance pays for it and charges my $14 for 10cc. Hard to beat that price UG.

Staying legal would be of paramount importance for many people with medical need for TRT.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Staying legal would be of paramount importance for many people with medical need for TRT.

Absolutely. I am sure it would be, but in my case I never had a choice and was forced to see illegal means to use the same drugs we all use. Trust me, after about 40 years of using the UG to get anabolic steroids it is a very relaxing feeling knowing that the bottle of test cypionate I have is completely legal. Yes the monetary part was definitely a part of my decision to be legal. If I had to pay $100 for the same bottle being legal I would not have made the same decision. Getting on Medicare changed a lot of my views.