Results are in (HCG potency)
- Thread starter Gman86
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Very good point. The empower rep seems like he knows what he's talking about on this stuff, so I tend to believe him when he says there's no difference between compounded and Pregnyl HCG. So ya maybe you're right. Maybe there is something that happens to compounding HCG by the time you inject it into yourself. In my personal experience, the only thing I have physically seen that is different is the water used to reconstitute. Pregnyl is the only one that came with bacteriostatic water mixed with sodium chloride. So the only thing I can think of that is causing such a drastic variance between Pregnyl and compounded HCG is what they are being reconstituted with.
What I do know 100% now tho is that Pregnyl is more effective and more consistent than every compounded HCG that I've tried. Which to date includes United Pharmacy, APS and Empower. Why? Not completely sure. But it's just a fact now that I don't think can be disputed. I have just too much blood work and anecdotal experience with all of them to still be unsure. At this point I am 100% convinced, and can't really see anyone looking at this thread and being able to say otherwise. Like I said, the smartest scientist can probably explain that they're all the same when being manufactured possibly, but if he guarantees 100% that they should all work the same, he's either lying or doesn't know what he's talking about. Because real world results conclusively say otherwise. But also like I said, the HCG might all actually be the same, and it might be what we're reconstituting it with that is causing the issue.
Vince Carter
Banned
Any thoughts of taking the Pregnyl and a compounded variety and using a pregnancy test on both? Ive heard that's a good way to "test" the HCG and then heard it's ridiculous to do that.
I have noticed the same thing with empowers hcg. I thought that it was because it lost efficacy on me after being on it a while but it did not occur to me it could be the brand. I have taken other compounders hcg and it worked and gave me the well being that hcg is suppose to give and it plumped my testicles up nicely. I am going to bring this up with my doctor the next time I speak with him, my experience with empower other than this has been very positive. Hcg is a critical part of treatment and I hate to be missing out on the benefits it gives if I don’t have to.
Ya a pregnancy test isn’t gonna tell you much. We’re all getting legitamge HCG. So I would assume they are all gonna show positive on a pregnancy test. That just tells u whether it’s HCG or not. But it won’t tell u the strength and efficacy, which is what we’re concerned with. I have no doubt empower’s HCG is real. I’m just trying to figure out why it doesn’t work as good as Pregnyl did.
Very interesting to hear other people's experiences with compounding HCG and it not being effective. Didn’t realize there were so many other guy’s going through the same thing.
I’ve personally never been off of HCG, so not sure what my testicles would look like on testosterone alone, but mine are so small while on Empower’s HCG that it makes me think that this might be what they would look like if I was on no HCG at all. I can’t imagine them getting much smaller. I can definitely relate now to when guys say their HCG might as well be water. That’s pretty much how I feel when i’m using compounding HCG.
Very interesting to hear other people's experiences with compounding HCG and it not being effective. Didn’t realize there were so many other guy’s going through the same thing.
I’ve personally never been off of HCG, so not sure what my testicles would look like on testosterone alone, but mine are so small while on Empower’s HCG that it makes me think that this might be what they would look like if I was on no HCG at all. I can’t imagine them getting much smaller. I can definitely relate now to when guys say their HCG might as well be water. That’s pretty much how I feel when i’m using compounding HCG.
Vince Carter
Banned
Any sources for Pregnyl like All Day Chemist? I see ReliableRX lists is but is out-of-stock.
my exact wondering as well, where to get pregnyl,
quick q
is hucog the same as preg?
i need to refill my hcg and get back on this journey,
Gman, amazing results man! glad to have seen this post, ill need to drop my own test injects to 110 per week or so,
i still love Crislers original hcg protocol, so ill stick with that one once i get some in...
Ya any sources for Pregnyl would be appreciated. I think I might try to switch back to Pregnyl. It sucks injecting HCG EOD and spending money on the HCG and not getting any of the benefit of it. Sucks feeling like I’m spending money on it every month when injecting water might give a similar result. Another thing that I miss that I don’t get when using compounded HCG is the flaccid penis girth. On Pregnyl my penis always seemed to hang nicely and was very girthy while flaccid I remember.
Ya I’ve been waiting for my labs to come back to see finally have enough info to post a quality thread on this subject.
Good question. Seems like Hucog might be very similar to Pregnyl. I’m not 100% sure though.
http://www.drugpillstore.us/buy-hucog-5000iu-injection-pregnyl-hcg-online-usa-cheap-price.html
Has anyone used a pharmacy grade HCG that has worked well for them? If Pregnyl is discontinued, I would definitely be open to trying a comparable HCG if I knew it worked as good as Pregnyl. At this point I think i’m willing to pay a little more for a quality product if needed.
I've got a really hard time believing a name brand pharmaceutical is doses wrong. I feel the same way about Empower. Your experiment wasn't perfect. If you are up for it I think you should contact Empower and do a more controlled experiment. I think they'd stand behind they're product. My dr sends everyone there, and he is a leading fertility specialist in the country.
Ya I agree. I’d be extremely shocked if Empower dosing their HCG wrong was the issue. The attention to detail at that place is unbelievable. So in your opinion, how do you think I could do more of a controlled experiment? Not being sarcastic or condescending, I’m honestly curious to any input on how to test their HCG in a better way. I’d probably try doing it. My first priority is me, my protocol and feeling my best. But my second priority in this whole TRT journey is to gather as much information through experience, lab testing, trial and error, learning from other people’s anecotdal experiences, and learning from studies, so that I can try to help others still trying to dial themselves in. So any input on how to test Empower’s HCG further would be appreciated. Other than going on HCG mono though. That i’m not willing to try.
And another reason I don't think these compounding pharmacies getting the dosage incorrect is the issue is because on Empower's HCG I went down to 500iu per week for a while, and am currently doing 1200iu per week, and honest to god don't think I notice any difference in testicular size. Not even exaggerating. If they were just getting the dosage incorrect, I feel like I should of at least seen a difference going from 500iu to 1200iu/ week. Maybe not a huge difference, but at least a little difference right? But truth is I see none. It seems like for some reason the HCG really isn't working at all for me. It doesn't seem to be working based off of testicular size, ejaculate volume, ejaculate pressure, orgasm intensity, flaccid penis girth and lab work.
After studying all my blood work, which is vast and detailed. My blood work tells me 1000iu's of Pregnyl adds 600 to my total T. This is based off of when I was on HCG mono with Pregnyl for 3 separate blood tests, all showing that 1000iu's will produce around 600 points of endogenous T, and all months apart. So I know Pregnyl is not only effective, but consistent. As each bottle was different days old during each blood test. For example one test it was near the beginning of opening it, and I remember another being more than 30 days since it was opened. And literally almost no variance in efficacy and total T numbers. I remember being very surprised actually how close my numbers came back. You can see all those numbers at the beginning of the tread where I posted all my HCG mono labs on Pregnyl. So already knowing that 1000iu of Pregnyl produces about 600 of endogenous T, when my blood work came back at 1855 while on 108mg of T and 1000iu of HCG, I figured if I just subtract 600, that would leave me with what my total T would of been on with just the testosterone alone, which would be 1255. My last labs were while on 101mg of test and 800iu of Empower HCG. My total T came back at 1147. Which is almost exactly what I would assume my total T would be on 101mg of test by itself. So if I had to make an educated guess taking all variables into consideration, my completely honest to god, non biased opinion would be that Empower's HCG is doing nothing for me. This fact I'm almost sure about. What I'm not sure, and through this thread would like to figure out, is why it is doing nothing. That's honestly my goal with this thread.
After studying all my blood work, which is vast and detailed. My blood work tells me 1000iu's of Pregnyl adds 600 to my total T. This is based off of when I was on HCG mono with Pregnyl for 3 separate blood tests, all showing that 1000iu's will produce around 600 points of endogenous T, and all months apart. So I know Pregnyl is not only effective, but consistent. As each bottle was different days old during each blood test. For example one test it was near the beginning of opening it, and I remember another being more than 30 days since it was opened. And literally almost no variance in efficacy and total T numbers. I remember being very surprised actually how close my numbers came back. You can see all those numbers at the beginning of the tread where I posted all my HCG mono labs on Pregnyl. So already knowing that 1000iu of Pregnyl produces about 600 of endogenous T, when my blood work came back at 1855 while on 108mg of T and 1000iu of HCG, I figured if I just subtract 600, that would leave me with what my total T would of been on with just the testosterone alone, which would be 1255. My last labs were while on 101mg of test and 800iu of Empower HCG. My total T came back at 1147. Which is almost exactly what I would assume my total T would be on 101mg of test by itself. So if I had to make an educated guess taking all variables into consideration, my completely honest to god, non biased opinion would be that Empower's HCG is doing nothing for me. This fact I'm almost sure about. What I'm not sure, and through this thread would like to figure out, is why it is doing nothing. That's honestly my goal with this thread.
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Kirk001
Member
Doesn't look like this one is available through Discounted Labs, but...
https://www.labcorp.com/test-menu/28431/human-chorionic-gonadotropin-hcg-β-subunit-quantitative
I don't know that there is info out there though on what serum levels are effective, it's usually talked about as what dosages are effective. But theoretically if you did get some Pregnyl you could compare your serum levels on that versus your levels on compounded HCG.
https://www.labcorp.com/test-menu/28431/human-chorionic-gonadotropin-hcg-β-subunit-quantitative
I don't know that there is info out there though on what serum levels are effective, it's usually talked about as what dosages are effective. But theoretically if you did get some Pregnyl you could compare your serum levels on that versus your levels on compounded HCG.
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
Discounted labs does have a test that indicates the effectiveness of HCG by measuring a downstream hormone.
17 - OH Progesterone : HCG + TRT Efficacy Predictor
https://www.discountedlabs.com/17-oh-progesterone-hcg-efficacy-predictor
If seems like this would work.
17 - OH Progesterone : HCG + TRT Efficacy Predictor
https://www.discountedlabs.com/17-oh-progesterone-hcg-efficacy-predictor
If seems like this would work.
SafeMeds4All has HCG that they call "Pregnyl (Generic Version)," so I don't know if it's supposed to be exactly the same:
http://www.safemeds4all.com/product...c-version-freeze-dried-hcg-injection/530.html
http://www.safemeds4all.com/product...c-version-freeze-dried-hcg-injection/530.html
I found this information very interesting and am glad that you took the time to do this and to share the information. No company or compounding pharmacy will ever study this issue so anecdotal evidence from individuals is all we will ever see. That is how this board has been so useful to me, by scanning to determine what is to be considered and what is to be viewed with skepticism (i.e. much of the discussion around managing E2 on this board).
My experience has been identical and if I were less lazy a summary of my labs and doses over the last 14 months would show the same thing. I am also a high SHBG guy - mid 50's - and use a "modified" Crisler protocol of 180 units HCG per day and have been steadily decreasing my test cyp dose, now 70 mg every 3.5 days, to maintain a total t of 1260 and a free T of 20 (I also need to run high total T to maintain a decent free T). Those test numbers have been dramatically lower, more than once, on the compounded product. Pharmaceutical facilities are subject to exponentially higher quality control and regulatory procedures and are inspected with an infinitely higher degree of care than compounding pharmacies which ensures that the products produced are identical with each lot. A compounding pharmacy simply cannot maintain those standards. They would go out of business.
All that being said I believe everyone should maintain a relationship with a compounding pharmacy in their local community. I use a small place in my local area (Northern California) and have found the PharmD to be much more helpful and helpful than the disinterested quack MD who charges me $150 a month to utilize his testosterone mill. I use several compounded products, DHEA troches among them, and would vouch for their quality. I find it interesting though that they don't even attempt to compound HCG. They fill my HCG prescriptions with brand name Pregnyl.
My experience has been identical and if I were less lazy a summary of my labs and doses over the last 14 months would show the same thing. I am also a high SHBG guy - mid 50's - and use a "modified" Crisler protocol of 180 units HCG per day and have been steadily decreasing my test cyp dose, now 70 mg every 3.5 days, to maintain a total t of 1260 and a free T of 20 (I also need to run high total T to maintain a decent free T). Those test numbers have been dramatically lower, more than once, on the compounded product. Pharmaceutical facilities are subject to exponentially higher quality control and regulatory procedures and are inspected with an infinitely higher degree of care than compounding pharmacies which ensures that the products produced are identical with each lot. A compounding pharmacy simply cannot maintain those standards. They would go out of business.
All that being said I believe everyone should maintain a relationship with a compounding pharmacy in their local community. I use a small place in my local area (Northern California) and have found the PharmD to be much more helpful and helpful than the disinterested quack MD who charges me $150 a month to utilize his testosterone mill. I use several compounded products, DHEA troches among them, and would vouch for their quality. I find it interesting though that they don't even attempt to compound HCG. They fill my HCG prescriptions with brand name Pregnyl.
It's a generic substitute for Brand name Pregnyl. This I believe is this stuff here:
https://www.reliablerxpharmacy.com/zyhcg-7367.html
Thanks for the reply. Really enjoyed reading your response and experience. You're probably right about the standards difference. I personally think Empower is one of the top compounding pharmacies in the country, but ya maybe they still just can't keep up with the standards that big pharmaceutical companies have to adhere to. Empower's HCG is much cheaper than big brand name HCG, so maybe that comes with a cost unfortunately.
So how long have you been on Pregnyl, and did you notice any objective/ subjective differences between compounded and PREGNYL? Like testicular size, ejaculate volume, ejaculate pressure, orgasm intensity, flaccid penis girth or increase/ decrease in sex drive?
Also, how much do you pay for your Pregnyl at that compounding pharmacy? If you don't mind me asking. I have a local compounding pharmacy that carries it, and they charge $150 for a 10,000iu bottle of Pregnyl. The cheapest I was ever able to get it was through CVS with a GoodRX coupon. It was $104 with the coupon. Recently, however, CVS has told me that they cannot order it due to Pregnyl being out of stock.
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