Quitting TRT after 1,5 years. There is hope

[kiko]

I recently went to twice a wk injections of 100 mg(T) on my own just to see if I can increase my T-FREE to see if it will help Now looking back I think I've worsened the issue further? your thoughts???
02/13/2017: SHBG 33
10/11/2018
Total T:924.9 ng/dl
Free T:27.6 pg/ml
Estradiol NON-SENSITIVE: 32.62 pg/ml

 

[sh1973]

You can drop your dose at least 15-20% in my opinion. Speaking for myself trough numbers that high cause all kinds of problems.

 

[kiko]

will give your suggestion a try, TY

 

[RX]

Go natural all you can and wait to check the new test innovations that science are close to deliver in the next years.

 

[maxadvance]

Jesus man, all i see is a guy self prescribing and seeing if the shit sticks on the wall, just reckless if you ask me. Your e2 is up and down and you're saying you're taking arimidex 'as needed', what the hell does that even mean?

 

[Norwaytrt]

Jesus man, all i see is a guy self prescribing and seeing if the shit sticks on the wall, just reckless if you ask me. Your e2 is up and down and you're saying you're taking arimidex 'as needed', what the hell does that even mean?

In some countries - self prescribing is the only option.
Have had both ups and downs, mostly due to the difficulty controlling e2, and cortisol issues that stem from that. `as needed` means exactly that.

Looking forward to maximizing life without having to think about these things.
More blood in late November will confirm my succesfull recovery.

Btw, you sound like kind of a dick=)

 

[at15]

I am apart of the 95% of the world who does not have access to the sensitive E2 test. Its rough, we do not have any choice but to go by feel on an Ad-Hoc basis with the aromatase inhibitors. Not safe to start blindly hammering on a dosing schedule week after week.

I have two methods where I feel good, either very low or very aggressive. 75-100 test per week + maybe a light hcg dose, NO AI. Or the aggressive option 250-300 test per week + hcg + AI as needed. If im going to use the AI, I like going high so i know its really hard to crash estrogen.

 

[HarryCat2]

Basically just stop. Know that starting at 3 weeks it’s going to be the worst you feel. It takes about 3 weeks for you to hit bottom.

Maybe, maybe not. I quit cold turkey about 6 weeks ago. My labs just came back with a total T of 180ng/dL. To be honest I don't felt much different in anyway since coming off, I'm sleeping slightly better and I'm not getting flush and feeling hot in the afternoons like I was on TRT, so 2 positives there. Other than that can't really say anything else has changed.

 

[Norwaytrt]

I wouldnt recommend quitting cold turkey.. for most people, the emotional sides will be really nasty.

I had a really smooth coming off when I did it the way I explained in the original post.

 

[Norwaytrt]

I am apart of the 95% of the world who does not have access to the sensitive E2 test. Its rough, we do not have any choice but to go by feel on an Ad-Hoc basis with the aromatase inhibitors. Not safe to start blindly hammering on a dosing schedule week after week.

I have two methods where I feel good, either very low or very aggressive. 75-100 test per week + maybe a light hcg dose, NO AI. Or the aggressive option 250-300 test per week + hcg + AI as needed. If im going to use the AI, I like going high so i know its really hard to crash estrogen.

I havent tried the really high dose T, but I always felt better on the lower doses.
I would say 75mg e/w and 100iu hcg ed, no ai was what I felt best on.
But I didnt feel amazing, so figured i could do an attempt at going off.

 

[sh1973]

My only point to just stopping, is considering someone is on a long ester such as cypionate, there is no cold turkey. It basically will work itself out of your system in 4-5 half lives. I don't even hit any sort of crash until 3 weeks post last injection. Everyone is different but still there will always be a gradual decline while the drug is fully releasing from the depot.

 

[Norwaytrt]

My only point to just stopping, is considering someone is on a long ester such as cypionate, there is no cold turkey. It basically will work itself out of your system in 4-5 half lives. I don't even hit any sort of crash until 3 weeks post last injection. Everyone is different but still there will always be a gradual decline while the drug is fully releasing from the depot.

Yeah I can see your point.
I was thinking the same the last time I tried to go off.
But didnt meet my hopes.. felt like utter garbage after 14-16 days or so, and started questioning why I was going off.. was I gonna feel that way forever etc.. =p
Not easy to think clear with both bottomed out test and e2.

That`s why I got onto Propionate for a month before I got off now.

 

[sh1973]

Yeah, I see you point and I considered doing the same with topical to allow the cypionate to be fully released. Only thing is, even if you do it that way you still have to hit bottom, unfortunately there's no way around that. At least you could sort of dictate the day this way. Even when Administering a serm you cannot totally mitigate the crash. I tried the last time going from hcg to clomid but still once the hcg had dissipated, there was still a hard crash between the transition to clomid.

 

[Alive]

It's been exactly 1 year that I've been on TRT and the only positive things I can report are increased confidence and a more stable emotional state. On the other hand I now have much more body hair, look older and my mental fog may have increased. My current protocol is 0.2 ml of T Prop EOD (which I may change to ED).

Maybe its my E2, I don't really know. There is one thing I wanted to ask you guys and I ask it here instead of starting a new thread. What's your experience with DIM been like? I know that it is an androgen blocker too. This may not be bad for someone like me whose facial hair does not stop increaseing. But I've read it can have long term effects similar to those of finastride.

 

[lsr75]

Hey, sorry to hear you wasted good years of your life aswell.
I have the same intolerance to AI`s.. a quarter pill would leave me low for well over a week.
If you go off, then make sure all the exogenous T is out of your body before you start serms.
If you are low body fat%, making a recovery should be easier..
During and after pct, estrogen control is paramount! I found that I could control it pretty good with just feeling my balls several times a day.. if they were getting soft, I would do the daily AI, if they were hard and full, I would skip it.
for the end of the serms and the especially the next 14 days after.. my dick was pretty much just hanging there.. almost no feeling. But I didnt feel too bad.
Reason for limp/senseless dick is a combination of low e2 and high shbg I`m pretty sure.
Gotten better after a few days of the boron.
Had sex daily the last 3 days, and actually enjoyed it.[/QUOTE

Hey thx for replying.. I am traveling at the moment so..hard to reply right away..and on that note another major problem with trt..very hard to travel with hcg..I freeze my hcg in syringes..how the hell can I lug then around for 7 days..so for the next week..no hcg..anyways..

So I got my labs back.. Iam not gonna post all the extra results..just a quick fill in..
Basically the last time I had labs..maybe 6 months ago..I was on 60mg of test C a week in 2 doses and either 100iu of hcg daily or 250iu twice a week..I ve gone back and forth with the hcg over time trying to figure out which works best for me..on a side note hcg has never helped my balls from shrinking which is a big concern for me..
Any how on that dose I was 1295 total T ..top of the ranging being 1200..my e2 was high although not a e2 sensitive test and my shbg was over top of the range..
At that dose I didn't feel great..anxiety..dry scalp..rash on my face..even thou I was ripped to the bone..very vascular and very strong..
So I dropped to 50 mg for awhile and i didn't feel much better..
Maybe 2 months ago i dropped again to 45mg of test c a week and back at 100iu of hcg daily as that seems to be the best hcg does as far as side effects..
Right now on this current does i feel my best mentally..my depression is almost no existent..I have lots of energy and am very into my hobbies once again..I am very lean and strong ..my appetite is great and my skin and scalp are much better..the downside is I have zero libido..I dont even think about sex and my penis and balls are very small and pulled up..
My labs that I just got back are.
Total T 485 top of range 1200..that's lower than pre trt
My e2 which was high is now normal at 21..
And shbg is in range at 36 top of range 50..

So I am just completely lost now..it seems I lower my dose too much..and that is probably why my libido sux..but I have so much energy and I feel so strong and fit.. I am not really sure what to do..maybe bump my dose up just a bit to 50 or 52mg a week?

A few questions about coming off.. if I decide to come off.. I have some old cream from when I first started..would be a good idea to get on that while the test C gets out of my system. .
Since I seem to be sensitive to hcg..would I just continue the 100hcg daily or would it need to be increased in the transition from test c to clomid?
12.5 clomid daily is the best dose? Why did you use Nova..I ve heard it's bad to combine seems?
My testes have shrunk alot..will they come back over time once I am off..

And just before everyone just in.. I do plan to Consult with Dr Crisler before or if I come off.. I have consulted with him several times..

Anyone with any input is very appreciated

 

[Norwaytrt]

Yeah, I see you point and I considered doing the same with topical to allow the cypionate to be fully released. Only thing is, even if you do it that way you still have to hit bottom, unfortunately there's no way around that. At least you could sort of dictate the day this way. Even when Administering a serm you cannot totally mitigate the crash. I tried the last time going from hcg to clomid but still once the hcg had dissipated, there was still a hard crash between the transition to clomid.

My experience when I got off now, I didnt reach a bottom. There was some sort of down and up in the transitioning between hcg and nolva/clomid, but it was very minor.

However, I did combine the pct with a few 72hour fasts. That really helped me.
Anxiety is mostly gone when you dont eat, and the body gets some time to get back to its core chores.

 

[Norwaytrt]

It's been exactly 1 year that I've been on TRT and the only positive things I can report are increased confidence and a more stable emotional state. On the other hand I now have much more body hair, look older and my mental fog may have increased. My current protocol is 0.2 ml of T Prop EOD (which I may change to ED).

Maybe its my E2, I don't really know. There is one thing I wanted to ask you guys and I ask it here instead of starting a new thread. What's your experience with DIM been like? I know that it is an androgen blocker too. This may not be bad for someone like me whose facial hair does not stop increaseing. But I've read it can have long term effects similar to those of finastride.

Not far from my experience.
I don`t have much experience with DIM, but the little I have, it doesnt really do very much for me. I feel the precursor to DIM (Indole 3 Carbinole) does more, but it`s hard to say. Right now I`m using only the I3C and Calcium D-Glucarate for e2 control.

I think getting really lean is a better way to make e2control easier.

 

[Norwaytrt]

So your testicles don`t respond to hcg at all?
Were you diagnosed as primary hypogonadal prior to starting trt?

If that`s the case, going off is not a good option for you I`m afraid.

I was on 100 iu ed hcg prior to going off. 3 days after last prop shot, I increased it to 200iu ed for the next 17 days.

For the last 4 days of those 17 days, I also took 10mg Nolvadex, up to 20 when I got off hcg. This seemed to smooth the transition from hcg to serms.

I used Nolva with the Clomid because I have used Clomid before, and I get crazy anxiety and really bad well being on higher doses..
I also was afraid of meddling too much with my shbg with higher doses and prolonged use of serms.
So I used only 12,5 of clomid and 20 nolva, reducing after 2 weeks.
This is considered VERY moderate dosing for a pct.

I think consulting with Dr.Crisler is a very good idea.
I wish I had access to doctors of his caliber in Norway.

 

[cigpk]

So your testicles don`t respond to hcg at all?
Were you diagnosed as primary hypogonadal prior to starting trt?

If that`s the case, going off is not a good option for you I`m afraid.

I was on 100 iu ed hcg prior to going off. 3 days after last prop shot, I increased it to 200iu ed for the next 17 days.

For the last 4 days of those 17 days, I also took 10mg Nolvadex, up to 20 when I got off hcg. This seemed to smooth the transition from hcg to serms.

I used Nolva with the Clomid because I have used Clomid before, and I get crazy anxiety and really bad well being on higher doses..
I also was afraid of meddling too much with my shbg with higher doses and prolonged use of serms.
So I used only 12,5 of clomid and 20 nolva, reducing after 2 weeks.
This is considered VERY moderate dosing for a pct.

I think consulting with Dr.Crisler is a very good idea.
I wish I had access to doctors of his caliber in Norway.

How has it been off of Clomid? I’ve had a pretty difficult time myself. I’ve been off for 1.5 months now and my test and free test have dropped substantially

 

[Norwaytrt]

How has it been off of Clomid? I’ve had a pretty difficult time myself. I’ve been off for 1.5 months now and my test and free test have dropped substantially

Hey, sorry to hear you`re having a difficult time.. it`s been about 2 months off clomid for me aswell.

Been both some good times and some bad ones.
I have faced the same realization as I did prior to starting trt.. If I`m gonna feel good, I have to really be strict with my diet. If I eat too much shit food for more than one day, things start really going south.

Libido has been really bad, but have had sex a couple times a week, with varying results..
it`s definitely better now than 2 months ago though.

Mood is generally more stable than on trt, but energy levels and presence are def suffering a bit. I sleep a little better though.

Have taken a drop or two of liquidex a few times. That has helped, as long as I dont take too much.

I took a blood test last wednesday.. so I hope the results will be here before christmas.