Question about TRT

[Ghost919]

Hello all. I am only 27 and I am athletic, I attend College and am planning on studying medicine in the future.

I have been struggling to gain any muscle, I lift heavy and rest whenever I have days off from the gym, and I make sure to count my caloric intake of my macronutrients and also make sure to supplement with protein with a high BCAA content. I asked my primary physician to check my Testosterone levels and Estrogen levels, he said my Testosterone was 550 ng and my estrogen was in the 300s per ng. He said that was normal. I was wondering if any of you believe that to be normal for my age bracket and also the estrogen being elevated like that what could be causing that?

The main question I have though regarding TRT os why are some doctors so against prescribing it for men that have low levels of Testosterone? Even if a person is met with suppression of endogenous hormones couldn't the patient just pct with hcg, clomiphene, and anastrizole to reconnect the hypothalamic pituitary axis to the gonads to restore the endogenous production.

If it can be medically advised I don't see the harm in more physicians prescribing it.
Anyway, please let me know your opinions, I live in a very conservative town and its hard to find docs that listen to you much less act like you know anything.

 

[HealthMan]

Either your workout routine is not optimal or you are not eating enough. I was able to put muscles with a total testosterone in the low 300s. If you are skinny type of guy (like i was) it might take A LOT of calories to put muscle on and very well designed workout routine. If your TT is in the 500s with absence of symptoms i would not recommend trying TRT. So many people try to get on TRT solely for improving body composition. Not judging anyone here just poiting it out and that looks like your case. You are better off doing a steroid cycle - I am not recommending this just telling you facts - if your purpose is that (TRT is no magic bullet specially with your not so low T-levels). Also you had only one measurement. Testosterone levels fluctuate a lot. Test again and next time get a more complete blood work done. Including at least FT and SHBG.

 

[Ghost919]

Thanks for your honesty, the main reason I am looking at TRT though is that its a legal option for a steroid when it is prescribed by a doctor. I do think my hormones are imbalanced. Been having pseudogyno ever since puberty, I have even went and had a breast ultrasound to check for gyno, and there isnt any glandular masses, just fat and the presence of a clear or white tiny drop that comes out of the nipple when I squeeze. At times it also is sore, but I have talked with my doctor about all this and the only thing he did was said my ultrasound came back normal, and that my blood values are normal. I also have hereditary primary hypothyroidism, so I feel the imbalance of hormones is almost genetic. My father is on TRT at the moment and it took being in the 200s to get his script. Just think thats a bit crazy.

 

[HealthMan]

Check your estradiol (ultrasensitive) and prolactin. Also make sure to check your FT and SHBG. Are you on thyroid meds? Too much thyroid meds can make it even harder to gain weight if you dont eat enough.
But bottom line it doesn’t look like TRT is for you. Also TRT dosages will do very little in terms of body composition if other problems are not addressed. And steroid cycle testosterone dosages are way higher than TRT. In a first cycle you can expect to put on 20 pounds of weight in some cases (i put a little bit more than that back in the day). The effects on muscle mass are major. TRT will not give you that specially since your TT is not terrible (but don’t forget to check FT).
Again if you are a skinny type of guy you have to eat A LOT. I was only able to completely change my body when i got my diet and workout routine right. Sometimes skinny types get full easily and are unable to eat enough calories to maximize muscle gains. What has worked for me is to add a few liquid meals during the day to fill the caloric gap.

 

[Ghost919]

I would be open to the real steroid cycles, but I have no idea where a real pharmacy is that can be trusted, Its like the risk of synthol or snake oil being in a vial, or a bacterial agent because of the lack of a chemist being the one who engineered the drug. If there is real sources out there I would definitely try it. Havent be shown the way down the rabbit whole yet.

 

[HealthMan]

I would be open to the real steroid cycles, but I have no idea where a real pharmacy is that can be trusted, Its like the risk of synthol or snake oil being in a vial, or a bacterial agent because of the lack of a chemist being the one who engineered the drug. If there is real sources out there I would definitely try it. Havent be shown the way down the rabbit whole yet.

Understood. This forum won’t be able to help you on that but there are many other forums out there that focus on that. Best of luck

 

[madman]

I would be open to the real steroid cycles, but I have no idea where a real pharmacy is that can be trusted, Its like the risk of synthol or snake oil being in a vial, or a bacterial agent because of the lack of a chemist being the one who engineered the drug. If there is real sources out there I would definitely try it. Havent be shown the way down the rabbit whole yet.

Thyroid dysfunction whether (hypo/hyper) can mimic low t symptoms let alone cause many other negative issues.

You did not mention once any low t symptoms and your main concern seems to be with not being able to gain muscle mass.

550 ng/dl is by no means low for a total t and even than when was your testing done as it needs to be done in a fasted state and bloods drawn between 7-10 am as this is when a males natural endogenous levels peak in the 24hr circadian rhythm.

Total t at the levels you have are descent and you could very well be higher as levels fluctuate and more than one test should be done.

If you had a rough stressful week at school along with lack of sleep during the week and had blood work done it will result in lowering your testosterone levels temporarily.

So to get an accurate reading make sure you are rested and not stressed out whether mentally or physically from over training in the gym.

Total t is only part of the overall picture as free t is what really matters and is the active fraction.

Also shbg is critical to know as there are cases where a male can have healthy levels of total t but they also have high shbg which is binding up all their testosterone resulting in low free t.....hence one will suffer from low testoterone and experience low t symptoms.

Do understand that even when one uses trt dose (100-150mg/week) even if ones total t/free t end up in the high/normal physiological range that yes if one is training with weights and has their diet in check it will result in improved body composition (increse muscle/loss body fat) but it is average at best and in no way comparable to the significant gains in muscle/strength and recovery one would gain from using high doses of testosterone (300-600mg/week) to attain supra-physiological testosterone levels.

There is no comparison it is like night and day!

I was always lean and had a hard time putting on weight due to a fast metabolism and it was not until I started eating enough calories (macros) and training properly that I was able to add muscle.

I had to hit 4000 cal/day every day consistently to gain quality weight and even than as I became older it was not only easier to gain but I was able to still be lean/muscular having low/normal testosterone (300s).

Diet/training are critical and if you are not eating enough nor training effectively testosterone will not be the god send.

 

[madman]

Hello all. I am only 27 and I am athletic, I attend College and am planning on studying medicine in the future.

I have been struggling to gain any muscle, I lift heavy and rest whenever I have days off from the gym, and I make sure to count my caloric intake of my macronutrients and also make sure to supplement with protein with a high BCAA content. I asked my primary physician to check my Testosterone levels and Estrogen levels, he said my Testosterone was 550 ng and my estrogen was in the 300s per ng. He said that was normal. I was wondering if any of you believe that to be normal for my age bracket and also the estrogen being elevated like that what could be causing that?

The main question I have though regarding TRT os why are some doctors so against prescribing it for men that have low levels of Testosterone? Even if a person is met with suppression of endogenous hormones couldn't the patient just pct with hcg, clomiphene, and anastrizole to reconnect the hypothalamic pituitary axis to the gonads to restore the endogenous production.

If it can be medically advised I don't see the harm in more physicians prescribing it.
Anyway, please let me know your opinions, I live in a very conservative town and its hard to find docs that listen to you much less act like you know anything.

Also understand that trt will shutdown ones hpta let alone increase ones estradiol, hemoglobin/hematocrit among possible cosmetic side effects such as oily skin/acne, increased body/facial hair, increase male pattern baldness (in those that are gentically prone), increase water retention/bloat, gynocomastia (in those that are genetically prone) and even though side effects are not common using trt doses some individuals are very sensitive to the effects of testosterones metabolites- e2/dht.

Even though e2/dht play important roles and are needed in men excess or lack there of can cause many negative issues.

Trt is a commitment and can involve many ups/downs as it is no quick fix!

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

My two cents…the one overriding reason to be cautious with TRT or a “cycle” is the small but meaningful chance that you will disrupt your libido and not be able to easily get it back. I can relate to the difficultly building muscle as I am a typical “hard-gainer”. If you really want to build muscle it may require a huge amount of clean food. I would try some sort of spot fat removal for gyno-like issues before I would try TRT for that . Also, IMO a micro-dose of Clomid (12mg every other day) could be worth a try. It disrupts libido in some at higher doses but should be fairly reversible and could help in the gym department and is easily obtainable. Many who want to build muscle overtrain and go to failure on their sets, something I don’t recommend. If you decide to try the so-called “dark-side” I would micro-dose and not do doses or lengths that will shut you down. As a hard-gainer you may find that you respond very well to micro-doses of things

 

[1Draw]

Ghost could you get a copy of the blood work and post since estradiol at 300 ng whatever surely sounds high. That way we can look at the ranges. Also probably the wrong estradiol test. Hopefully he pulled your free t as well. Free T is very important.

 

[Ghost919]

My two cents…the one overriding reason to be cautious with TRT or a “cycle” is the small but meaningful chance that you will disrupt your libido and not be able to easily get it back. I can relate to the difficultly building muscle as I am a typical “hard-gainer”. If you really want to build muscle it may require a huge amount of clean food. I would try some sort of spot fat removal for gyno-like issues before I would try TRT for that . Also, IMO a micro-dose of Clomid (12mg every other day) could be worth a try. It disrupts libido in some at higher doses but should be fairly reversible and could help in the gym department and is easily obtainable. Many who want to build muscle overtrain and go to failure on their sets, something I don’t recommend. If you decide to try the so-called “dark-side” I would micro-dose and not do doses or lengths that will shut you down. As a hard-gainer you may find that you respond very well to micro-doses of things

Can you post the ideal diet for cutting and gaining dry lean mass, if I were to train correctly?

 

[Ghost919]

I am going to the doctor on monday I will see what I can get a copy of, and also I will see if he can check my prolactin and shbg.

 

[madman]

I am going to the doctor on monday I will see what I can get a copy of, and also I will see if he can check my prolactin and shbg.

Have lab work redone for at least total t, free t, shbg, estradiol (sensitive assay), prolactin and if shbg is high than your free t will be low.....otherwise your shbg will be normal and your free t will be in a descent range.

The main reason I am skeptical is that yes even though free t is the active fraction and even though we do not know your shbg/free t levels and seeing as your total t level of 550 is not low and you did NOT state once that you were experiencing low t symptoms other than not being able to put on muscle it is highly unlikely your free t would be low.

No doctor would prescribe testosterone to a male with healthy endogenous levels solely for the purpose of muscle gain.

As I stated trt doses will not result in significant gains muscle/strength.....improvement in body composition yes but packing on muscle absolutely not!

 

[madman]

My two cents…the one overriding reason to be cautious with TRT or a “cycle” is the small but meaningful chance that you will disrupt your libido and not be able to easily get it back. I can relate to the difficultly building muscle as I am a typical “hard-gainer”. If you really want to build muscle it may require a huge amount of clean food. I would try some sort of spot fat removal for gyno-like issues before I would try TRT for that . Also, IMO a micro-dose of Clomid (12mg every other day) could be worth a try. It disrupts libido in some at higher doses but should be fairly reversible and could help in the gym department and is easily obtainable. Many who want to build muscle overtrain and go to failure on their sets, something I don't recommend. If you decide to try the so-called “dark-side” I would micro-dose and not do doses or lengths that will shut you down. As a hard-gainer you may find that you respond very well to micro-doses of things

Regarding the dark side lol.....there is no such thing as micro-dosing as one would need to use high doses of testosterone (300-600mg/week) to obtain supra-physiological testosterone levels resulting in significant gains in muscle/strength and enhanced recovery.

You also state "and not do doses or lengths that will shut you down"....hope you understand that low trt doses shuts down ones hpta!

 

[Excellent]

Regarding the dark side lol.....there is no such thing as micro-dosing as one would need to use high doses of testosterone (300-600mg/week) to obtain supra-physiological testosterone levels resulting in significant gains in muscle/strength and enhanced recovery.

You also state "and not do doses or lengths that will shut you down"....hope you understand that low trt doses shuts down ones hpta!

How would this work? Run 125mg/wk maintenance, bump to 300/600mg/wk for 12 weeks, then back to 125mg for maintenance for 24 weeks? Would HCG, Finasteride, Anastrozole, DHEA, Vitamin D, Zinc, etc. need to be upped as well? Isn't it illegal beyond 200mg/wk?