Propionate PIP Poll

[tareload]

Subcutaneous Drug Administration

This chapter provides an overview of subcutaneous drug administration. In rodents, the subcutaneous administration of drugs is more frequently used th…

www.sciencedirect.com

Effective method for drug injection into subcutaneous tissue - Scientific Reports

Subcutaneous injection of drug solution is widely used for continuous and low dose drug treatment. Although the drug injections have been administered for a long time, challenges in the design of injection devices are still needed to minimize the variability, pain, or skin disorder by repeated...

www.nature.com

Pain perception after subcutaneous injections of media containing different buffers - PubMed

Several hormones are administered by daily subcutaneous injections. Pain caused by subcutaneous injection is an unpleasant condition, which can limit patient compliance. The objective of the present study was to evaluate the perception of pain by subcutaneous injection of two different and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Subcutaneous Injection of Drugs: Literature Review of Factors Influencing Pain Sensation at the Injection Site - PMC

The subcutaneous administration route is widely used to administer different types of drugs given its high bioavailability and rapid onset of action. However, the sensation of pain at the injection site might reduce patient adherence. Apart from a ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[tareload]

Here's an article about it: Shark Tank Entrepreneur Turned Steroid Dealer Received Harsher Punishment Because He Was Too Stingy with His Employees - Roidvisor - Your reliable guide in Steroids

Thanks for sharing this. This is what I don't understand. Same downfall of Lance Armstrong. Don't get cheap if your achille's heel is your employees and associates.

Is there a way to cut Danny out of the videos or fast forward when Danny speaks? He won't shut up and says stuff like "10 mg/day of D-bol, that's nothing."

 

[Willyt]

I've injected hundreds of times with Propionate from Empower both subq and shallow IM. All low dose. Rarely ever have PIP. If I do, it likely had more to do with user error on the injection. I do take more care these days to let the swabbed alcohol fully dry on skin before injecting.

Empower prop: Other ingredients include BENZYL ALCOHOL 1%/ BENZYL BENZOATE 15%

I do experience different sides on prop versus cyp/enan, but nothing to do with PIP.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I do experience different sides on prop versus cyp/enan, but nothing to do with PIP.

Thanks for posting your experience. Do you mind sharing how the sides differed between esters for you?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Excellent summary! In my mind (I have no experience with 100 mg/ml TP) that leaves the question would PDP be more of a problem injected strictly IM or SQ. Injection protocol may then depend on the person, age, bodyfat,... Would dilution curve be more favorable to avoid PDP with SQ approach? Effective water activity with IM injection vs SQ injection.

Those are good questions. If I were suffering PIP with testosterone propionate and wanted to continue with it, I would definitely experiment with SQ vs IM. I can say I did another shot today, 5 mg shallow IM, and no pain during or after.

 

[tareload]

Some real interesting "moments" in the follow up.

 

[Willyt]

Thanks for posting your experience. Do you mind sharing how the sides differed between esters for you?

On the plus side, I get zero water retention from Prop versus anywhere from 5-15lbs on Cyp/Enan depending on dose and frequency. And then there is the daily variation that many seek.

The major drawback is that Prop is like a triple expresso for me within several hours of injecting. Great energy, but hard to control even with low doses. Mind constantly racing. I hit 1200 TT on only 8mg daily.

I continue to experiment with Cat's prop-enan blend concept. As I mentioned in the other thread, using the blend is about seeking balance. Inject first thing in morning. Peak early in day and let levels come down overnight for better sleep.
Tips on how to blend propionate with enanthate (or cypionate)?

 

[Deleted member 43589]

When Testosterone Propionate was still sold legally in the USA, I remember now I was using Lilly TP and it was 50mg/ml. Watson also sold a versiojn and it came in 25mg/ml and 50mg/ml. The 50mg/ml was very painful. So yes I have always heard because of the higher melting point in the short chains the crystals do not melt in the body so easily thus, causing pain. Especially in the higher doses like 50-100mg/ml. I never tried the 25mg/ml and it is probably much less painful. UG labs commonly make 100mg/ml.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Some real interesting "moments" in the follow up.

Cool, so he found a way to continue selling steroids legally at much higher prices than the black market. Much respect, but no way I would pay what he charges on his web site. Cheaper than most but still way more than I am willing to pay. But he is absolutely right, the bodybuilding world has spent quite a few years reading research and doing their own personal research and I believe is much further ahead than the medical community. I have always said the same thing is true with nutrition. Pro bodybuilders are very good at what they do. Yet dieticians refuse to listen to them.

Those Omnitrope (hGH) he prescribes are so high I almost got a nose bleed. In my world, Omnitrope goes for $150 a kit.

 

[tareload]

Cool, so he found a way to continue selling steroids legally at much higher prices than the black market. Much respect, but no way I would pay what he charges on his web site. Cheaper than most but still way more than I am willing to pay. But he is absolutely right, the bodybuilding world has spent quite a few years reading research and doing their own personal research and I believe is much further ahead than the medical community. I have always said the same thing is true with nutrition. Pro bodybuilders are very good at what they do. Yet dieticians refuse to listen to them.

Those Omnitrope (hGH) he prescribes are so high I almost got a nose bleed. In my world, Omnitrope goes for $150 a kit.

I thought you would like the HGH "deals".

As we discussed prior the stanozolol and oxandrolone prices are not what I would characterize as underselling everyone else. I have to give him credit for the honesty of referring to patients as customers before he then switches quickly to calling them clients (ahem).

 

[Deleted member 43589]

LOL!!! My friend in China also manurfactures his own hGH $90 a kit. I had some tested by a friend here using the SDS PAGE and the lines on the test were a very think blue line right on the 22dka line it was much thicker than the Hygetropin it was compared with. Good stuff.

 

[Gladiator]

My TRT provider, who is also the largest convicted steroid dealer in America, is of the opinion that PIP reported with testosterone propionate is most likely caused by the testosterone crashing out of solution in the body and provoking an inflammatory response. He does not believe that it is caused by particular additives, but instead by pushing the concentration beyond the capacity of test prop to dissolve well.

I'm personally not sure whether the problems relate to concentration versus additives. I do suspect that this problem is mostly limited to UGL formulations though. I set up this poll to confirm or refute that suspicion. I want to know what your experiences have been with legally obtained, 100mg/ml testosterone propionate from a compounding pharmacy.

It's possible that this whole PIP thing is just a myth that discourages people from trying an effective TRT option that offers unique benefits for many people.

So how much do you pay for the testosterone?
Can’t believe someone who got busted can run a trt clinic.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

So how much do you pay for the testosterone?
Can’t believe someone who got busted can run a trt clinic.

I paid $236 total including fees for 10 ml of 200 mg/ml test cyp.

 

[Gladiator]

I paid $236 total including fees for 10 ml of 200 mg/ml test cyp.

That’s very expensive.
But if you can’t get it legally from a doctor then I guess an x steroid dealer is good enough

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I have to say, my initial reaction to small amounts of test propionate is not great. Maybe 4-5 hours after taking just 5 mg of TP I'm feeling turbo stimulation that is very uncomfortable. Someone described it as feeling like they drank a triple espresso and that seems accurate. Then, later in the evening I'm feeling drained and burnt out. It's crazy how different the experience is from cypionate.

By contrast, I took 30 mg of testosterone cypionate today to make up for some missed daily doses during my propionate experiment and I feel back to normal. While I might have adapted to the propionate given time, I can't afford the incapacitation right now, so I'm pressing pause on the propionate experiment. I got something out of it though -- a new appreciation for the calm, soothing stability of cypionate.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

That’s very expensive.
But if you can’t get it legally from a doctor then I guess an x steroid dealer is good enough

Do you know how TRT clinics work? You do get it legally from a doctor, and the cost of the testosterone vial has all of the doctor's fees, administrative fees, and profit margin of the clinic built in. There are no other costs involved for appointments or anything else.

I'll probably look into moving to a local urologist at some point to use my insurance and bring costs down but this works fine for now

 

[Gladiator]

Do you know how TRT clinics work? You do get it legally from a doctor, and the cost of the testosterone vial has all of the doctor's fees, administrative fees, and profit margin of the clinic built in. There are no other costs involved for appointments or anything else.

I'll probably look into moving to a local urologist at some point to use my insurance and bring costs down but this works fine for now

I get my trt from a doctor. It costs me $120 for 10ml. The clinic others use charge $300 for 10ml.

No I don’t know how a trt clinic works. Guess it’s on being dishonest

 

[tareload]

Do you know how TRT clinics work?

You can lead a horse to the book and even open the book and turn to page 1, but you can't make him read.

 

[tareload]

I have to say, my initial reaction to small amounts of test propionate is not great. Maybe 4-5 hours after taking just 5 mg of TP I'm feeling turbo stimulation that is very uncomfortable. Someone described it as feeling like they drank a triple espresso and that seems accurate. Then, later in the evening I'm feeling drained and burnt out. It's crazy how different the experience is from cypionate.

By contrast, I took 30 mg of testosterone cypionate today to make up for some missed daily doses during my propionate experiment and I feel back to normal. While I might have adapted to the propionate given time, I can't afford the incapacitation right now, so I'm pressing pause on the propionate experiment. I got something out of it though -- a new appreciation for the calm, soothing stability of cypionate.

Thanks for the update. I get the same issue intermittently same day as I inject the blend. Guess our beta adrenergic receptors are a little on the sensitive side. That's my main issue with trying TP solo, to get a decent mean level over the week you gotta really go through a crazy peak. This 4 to 1 blend I am using probably as much prop as I want to sample although there is so much good stuff on here regarding blends.

High hematocrit prevalence with intranasal vs. intramuscular testosterone

A cross-sectional comparison of secondary polycythemia in testosterone-deficient men treated with nasal testosterone gel vs. intramuscular testosterone cypionate Abstract Introduction: Secondary polycythemia is a known adverse effect of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Different...

www.excelmale.com

I hope you feel better.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Thanks for the update. I get the same issue intermittently same day as I inject the blend. Guess our beta adrenergic receptors are a little on the sensitive side. That's my main issue with trying TP solo, to get a decent mean level over the week you gotta really go through a crazy peak. This 4 to 1 blend I am using probably as much prop as I want to sample although there is so much good stuff on here regarding blends.

I hope you feel better.

Thanks. Yes, I think I am definitely sensitive to the stimulating effects of testosterone, whether it's sensitive beta adrenergic receptors or another mechanism. Considering what 5 mg did, I can only imagine injecting a bodybuilding cycle dose of TP would either give me a heart attack or the mother of all panic attacks.

I like what test cyp is doing in the 73.5 - 105 mg weekly range as far as benefits to energy, mood, sleep, joint pain, and resurrection of nocturnal/morning erections. Where it's letting me down so far is libido. Except for maybe a few days between weeks 2 and 3 where it was better than normal, it's been pretty crappy. My next experiment might be to try the hybrid thing with a little cream.