Progesterone for sleep

[Appassionato]

Did anyone used progesterone successfully for better sleep? Especially to stay asleep at night and to calm down the mind. I've been tested for progesterone and the level was 0.10 ng/mL (range 0.10 – 1.00 ng/mL).
Several TRT doctors refuse to prescribe progesterone due to be highly inflammatory in men, at least according to this study:

Endogenous progesterone and the exogenous progestin norethisterone enanthate are associated with a proinflammatory profile in healthy men. - PubMed - NCBI

They say it's nothing to get concerned about, since TRT lowers the level of progesterone, but since finasteride is another drug that inhibits endogenous progesterone and I've been on it for 7 years, I was wondering if anyone got better sleep out of small doses of progesterone.

@xqfq your post about progesterone here

Irritability and anxiety on Testosterone

was really interesting. Did you try it yourself?

 

[Cataceous]

Yes, progesterone use has correlated with an increase of about an hour in uninterrupted sleep and a reduction in irritability. I'm not overly concerned about the results of the studies on inflammation, though the markers could be worth monitoring.

 

[Appassionato]

Yes, progesterone use has correlated with an increase of about an hour in uninterrupted sleep and a reduction in irritability. I'm not overly concerned about the results of the studies on inflammation, though the markers could be worth monitoring.

I basically know nothing about progesterone. What form of bio-identical progesterone is available? Cream or injections? What would be a really low-dose to start with?

EDIT: I've found this: Now Foods, Natural Progesterone, Liposomal Skin Cream, Unscented, 3 oz (85 g)
Should I try one pump before bed to start with?

 

[Cataceous]

Check out this thread for the details: Progesterone affect/symptoms in men
I mention that I started with scrotal application of progesterone in oil, but migrated to including progesterone in injections. I titrated the dose to attain physiological levels.

 

[Appassionato]

Check out this thread for the details: Progesterone affect/symptoms in men
I mention that I started with scrotal application of progesterone in oil, but migrated to including progesterone in injections. I titrated the dose to attain physiological levels.

Thanks for the valuable information. Unfortunately I think I won't be able to find injections of bio-identical progesterone where I live now, hence why i was looking for a cream. The one I posted is 20 mg of natural progesterone per pump though, while you were only using 6-8 mg in oil form. do you think 20 mg would be too much?
Do you mind sharing which oil you were using?

 

[Cataceous]

Does AllDayChemist ship to your location? They have the injectable version. Previously I used the Progestelle brand purchased on Amazon for topical applications. It's hard to predict whether 20 mg would be too much; absorption is quite variable. Even before you get lab work you may be able to tell by whether or not you have morning grogginess.

 

[Appassionato]

Does AllDayChemist ship to your location? They have the injectable version. Previously I used the Progestelle brand purchased on Amazon for topical applications. It's hard to predict whether 20 mg would be too much; absorption is quite variable. Even before you get lab work you may be able to tell by whether or not you have morning grogginess.

I'll try the 20 mg cream and see how it goes with that, because it's way cheaper. Just out of curiosity, can you only apply half of the pump and dispose the rest if 20 mg is too much?

 

[Cataceous]

... Just out of curiosity, can you only apply half of the pump and dispose the rest if 20 mg is too much?

I don't see why not. I recall that with Androgel I was able to dispense fractions of a pump, though without much precision. I suppose you could measure the volume you apply for better accuracy, either with standard measuring spoons or the smaller versions.

 

[Appassionato]

I've tried 20 mg applied through an oil on the skin last time and it made my sleep worse.
I had trouble falling asleep like when I was on AI and I've kept waking up from 4 am.
This morning I felt sensibly more tired than the previous nights and with joint pains.
I assume it dropped my E2 low, but I'm just speculating.
I think I won't give it a go again.

@Cataceous did you sleep better since the first application?

 

[Vince Carter]

Id go way down from 20mg I think that that's a lot for what can be seen as a more mainline dose inspite of what the dispenser gives you. 5mg may be more inline with a titration if tolerance is good.
Too, why inject when a perfectly creams out there that are far easier to obtain; Amazon.

Id do more due diligence on Progesterone use in men for a variety of reasons it's direct use is generally not advised but you'll have to decide for yourself.

Would be much easier to supplement Pregnenolone as it's one up in the hormonal cascade, something else to consider as an alt.

 

[Appassionato]

Id go way down from 20mg I think that that's a lot for what can be seen as a more mainline dose inspite of what the dispenser gives you. 5mg may be more inline with a titration if tolerance is good.
Too, why inject when a perfectly creams out there that are far easier to obtain; Amazon.

Id do more due diligence on Progesterone use in men for a variety of reasons it's direct use is generally not advised but you'll have to decide for yourself.

Would be much easier to supplement Pregnenolone as it's one up in the hormonal cascade, something else to consider as an alt.

Pregnenolone gave me a horrible night last week when I tried with 90 mg after doc suggestion. I woke up at 3 AM and couldn't go back to sleep until 6 AM.
30 and 60 mg were doing nothing.

I went with 20 mg because Cataceous tried 7 mg in oil form and brought his progesterone from 0.1 to 0.3 ng/dL. I've been tested with 0.1 as well, so I thought the higher dose would have increased the level a bit more.
I may try with 5 mg again in the weekend, but I think that's not the issue here. I should have felt the calming effect many claims, but I got the opposite result.

 

[cigpk]

I’ve been dosing 20 mg pregnenolone every night before bed and it helped me with the 3 am wide awake episodes. I still wake up but able to fall back asleep easier. I will say that this effect was more pronounced when I began taking it and it has kind of lessened over time.

I’ll see what my progesterone levels are in a few days when I get my labs back.

 

[fifty]

Stopping trt improved my sleep a lot

 

[cigpk]

Stopping trt improved my sleep a lot

When I stopped trt I slept about the same. the difference was no matter how much I slept, I felt like a depressed elderly person.

 

[Cataceous]

...
@Cataceous did you sleep better since the first application?

Yes, I had immediate results, and using too much caused morning grogginess.

 

[Vince Carter]

90mg of Pregnenolone hahahahaha

 

[cigpk]

90mg of Pregnenolone hahahahaha

Yeah that’s a hefty dose.

My doc recommended 25 mg at night.

I would prob recommend 10-30 mg max and then get your progesterone levels tested

 

[Appassionato]

When I stopped trt I slept about the same. the difference was no matter how much I slept, I felt like a depressed elderly person.

It happened the same to me when I stopped Clomid. I could sleep really well, but I had 0 energy.

Yes, I had immediate results, and using too much caused morning grogginess.

That's why I think dropping the dose won't help much. But I will give it go, just not to leave anything untried.

90mg of Pregnenolone hahahahaha

And consider that the doctor wanted me to try 200 mg.
Thank God I had the common sense not to go so far.
I still believe TRT is such poorly understood yet, even from the so called doctors with years and years of experience.

 

[Cataceous]

...
That's why I think dropping the dose won't help much. But I will give it go, just not to leave anything untried.

Doing it right requires checking serum levels.

 

[Appassionato]

Doing it right requires checking serum levels.

Hi @Cataceous ,
a question on your experience with progesterone and E2 numbers. Did you check E2 before and after supplementing with progesterone? Did it lowers your E2 or it didn't have any effect on it?
I tried 7 mg of progesterone oil this morning and it made me quite drowsy for 8 hours, so I may give it a go at bedtime again with 7 mg, rather than 20 mg as I did before.
I'm just concerned about the effect it could have on E2 though, since I felt quite warmer this morning, so I thought it may had an effect on it.