Permanent crash of estrogen?

[Gman86]

Just to add,I too suffered long term issues when I played around with aromasin before I was on TRT in my early 20s. Joint pain, sexual dysfunction, feeling old, but mostly my mobility and ability to workout. I can only describe it as my muscles felt like they never had glycogen in them especially my legs. I’m reluctant to say because it’s only been about a 2 weeks but I’ve been supplementing 1 mg of estradiol valerate a day and haven’t felt this good in my roughly 5 years on trt. To add I’ve tried many protocols involving dosage adjustments( ED, EOD, hcg,) before I went with taking estradiol, which is why my trt journey has been 5 years and counting. The feeling of my muscles actually being “full” is great and I’m having great workouts again. I’ll continue this experiment with caution but I am just happy I actually am feeling physically functional on trt for once.

What aromasin dosages were u using when u were on it?

 

[Anonymon]

Many different things, from low E2 to low cortisol and thyroid issues and various PFS oddities, all lead to reduced glycogen retention in the muscles. Is the mechanism for this just insulin resistance caused by the other hormones being out of whack?

My E2’s always seemingly been fine, but I’ve had similar issues over the years, and as they progressed, I could feel them spreading to other muscles. Started with my back, then upper chest, and seemingly went around affecting areas with the most androgen receptors first. Taking cortisol and MCT oil over time helped me build up some kind of resource in my muscles that spread in reverse order along the same path as they all refilled, which was fun while I was doing that.

I’ve always had a great A1C and fasting blood glucose and other markers, but does all of the ‘muscle flatness’ stuff come back to insulin resistance through many of various means?

 

[Bmac]

What aromasin dosages were u using when u were on it?

Roughly 12.5mg EOD, some days I did take 25mg but for the bulk of my usage 12.5mg. There’s a long story as to why I did use aromasin and even continued using after I started to get negative side effects. Not knowing about the potential inaccuracy of the standard immunoassay was a big factor tho.

 

[Bmac]

Wow I tried this too. I increased my e2 number by around 20 pg/ml but felt nothing. I was using around 40mcg. This is like 1/25 of what you are taking!!! Amazing you feel well. Please get a sensitive e2 test done and share with us! How has sexual function been impacted? Was this one of the reasons you tried this?

The 1 mg dosage is potential going to be reduced in the coming day’s, we’ll see. If I recall correctly you were taking it by injection? The bio availability of oral estradiol valerate is very poor vs injection which is 100%. As for sexual function I can not say it has had a positive or negative affect at this time. It is something I’ll be monitoring as actual erectile function is something I’m concerned with taking estradiol. As for blood work unfortunately I cannot guarantee I can get the sensitive e2 test as I don’t live in the US.

 

[JA Battle]

The 1 mg dosage is potential going to be reduced in the coming day’s, we’ll see. If I recall correctly you were taking it by injection? The bio availability of oral estradiol valerate is very poor vs injection which is 100%. As for sexual function I can not say it has had a positive or negative affect at this time. It is something I’ll be monitoring as actual erectile function is something I’m concerned with taking estradiol. As for blood work unfortunately I cannot guarantee I can get the sensitive e2 test as I don’t live in the US.

Ah yes, thanks for clarification. I thought you were injecting 1 milligram. I was injecting it. I will be curious to hear of how things go moving forward with your experiment.

With the oral bioavailability I would say your dose is close to a reasonable dose until we know more. It’s actually roughly what the average man makes in a day. The average man We estimate makes in between 20-70 mcg daily or .02-.07 milligrams.

 

[eli]

This is an incredibly valuable comment and experience summary.
I feel exactly like you, and the worst is that glycogen depletion in the muscle.
People with normal e2 can't understand the feeling.

I've only ever felt full again with testosterone cream and HGH, but I will definitely try the estradiol valeriate.

Are you low SHBG?

Only cream works for me too, injecting testosterone is like injecting water

But the other thing that has worked for me too with Test injections is adding a very low dose of Tren or Trest or DHB. I'm talking about 10-20mg of Tren or 30-50mg of trest or dhb

Also, I think cream is perfect for people who hyper aromatize because it converts into Test and DHT more than E2.

 

[Rb1980]

My e2 went from 80 to 10 in a span of 2 months and I can barely tell a difference. I pretty much feel the same... but it’s kind of scary to read some of these posts.

 

[Zibernet]

Are you low SHBG?

Only cream works for me too, injecting testosterone is like injecting water

But the other thing that has worked for me too with Test injections is adding a very low dose of Tren or Trest or DHB. I'm talking about 10-20mg of Tren or 30-50mg of trest or dhb

Also, I think cream is perfect for people who hyper aromatize because it converts into Test and DHT more than E2.

You mean 30mg of Trest daily? That's a huge dose of Trest.
What benefits did you derive from it?
I'm curious to try it for the seemingly positive mood enhancement.

 

[eli]

You mean 30mg of Trest daily? That's a huge dose of Trest.
What benefits did you derive from it?
I'm curious to try it for the seemingly positive mood enhancement.

No a week, try DHB first with your TRR (1-test cyp)
30-50mg a week
Every benefit that testosterone is supposed to give lol

 

[Zibernet]

No a week, try DHB first with your TRR (1-test cyp)
30-50mg a week
Every benefit that testosterone is supposed to give lol

So you didn't get those benefits with test but you got them with trest?
Can you name a few?

 

[swolg8r]

This is an incredibly valuable comment and experience summary.
I feel exactly like you, and the worst is that glycogen depletion in the muscle.
People with normal e2 can't understand the feeling.

I've only ever felt full again with testosterone cream and HGH, but I will definitely try the estradiol valeriate.

Please let us know what your results are with this. If it works I will hop on as well to give it a shot.

 

[swolg8r]

Just to add,I too suffered long term issues when I played around with aromasin before I was on TRT in my early 20s. Joint pain, sexual dysfunction, feeling old, but mostly my mobility and ability to workout. I can only describe it as my muscles felt like they never had glycogen in them especially my legs. I’m reluctant to say because it’s only been about a 2 weeks but I’ve been supplementing 1 mg of estradiol valerate a day and haven’t felt this good in my roughly 5 years on trt. To add I’ve tried many protocols involving dosage adjustments( ED, EOD, hcg,) before I went with taking estradiol, which is why my trt journey has been 5 years and counting. The feeling of my muscles actually being “full” is great and I’m having great workouts again. I’ll continue this experiment with caution but I am just happy I actually am feeling physically functional on trt for once.

Any updates on this? How is the oral estrogen supplementation working for you?

 

[Bmac]

Any updates on this? How is the oral estrogen supplementation working for you?

I’m still experiencing benefits regarding gym performance and mobility. The feeling of having “full” muscles is becoming very prominent especially in my legs. I’d say My libido is better, especially noticeable on my days off work when I’m generally more relaxed anyway. Still can’t say it has positively or negatively affected erections. Something I’ve noticed but not sure if it’s from the estradiol is that I’m sweating much more than I normally do. Before when I’d sweat I’d have salt stains in my shirt. Now I’m sweating much more but have no sweat stains. With this I’ve noticed my tolerance to warm weather has increased.

 

[swolg8r]

I’m still experiencing benefits regarding gym performance and mobility. The feeling of having “full” muscles is becoming very prominent especially in my legs. I’d say My libido is better, especially noticeable on my days off work when I’m generally more relaxed anyway. Still can’t say it has positively or negatively affected erections. Something I’ve noticed but not sure if it’s from the estradiol is that I’m sweating much more than I normally do. Before when I’d sweat I’d have salt stains in my shirt. Now I’m sweating much more but have no sweat stains. With this I’ve noticed my tolerance to warm weather has increased.

I’ve gone ahead and gotten the valerate and will give it a shot. It’s .625 mg. I think I’ll break that in half and go once per week to start? This is a first for me.

 

[Cataceous]

I’ve gone ahead and gotten the valerate and will give it a shot. It’s .625 mg. I think I’ll break that in half and go once per week to start? This is a first for me.

If you're not on TRT then you're likely to get different results than guys on TRT. Estradiol is highly suppressive of the HPTA. Oral estradiol valerate is fairly short-acting, but you could still knock back your testosterone production for at least a couple days.

 

[swolg8r]

If you're not on TRT then you're likely to get different results than guys on TRT. Estradiol is highly suppressive of the HPTA. Oral estradiol valerate is fairly short-acting, but you could still knock back your testosterone production for at least a couple days.

Yeah that’s why I haven’t touched anything else. I’ve gotten off everything. And last I checked my HPTA is working. I wonder if one dose will be enough to stimulate aromatase production or if I’ll just have a new array of problems. I’ve been thinking about making an appointment with Defy. Not sure I can afford to shop around for local endocrinologists who may or may not be knowledgeable in this area.

 

[Amanofgod]

I’m still experiencing benefits regarding gym performance and mobility. The feeling of having “full” muscles is becoming very prominent especially in my legs. I’d say My libido is better, especially noticeable on my days off work when I’m generally more relaxed anyway. Still can’t say it has positively or negatively affected erections. Something I’ve noticed but not sure if it’s from the estradiol is that I’m sweating much more than I normally do. Before when I’d sweat I’d have salt stains in my shirt. Now I’m sweating much more but have no sweat stains. With this I’ve noticed my tolerance to warm weather has increased.

Can u pm me

 

[Bmac]

recently got blood work done. Blood was taken morning before my next injection as well as my 1mg estradiol valerate. This is on 120mg a week test cyp dosed 30mg EoD. Accuracy of these tests are questionable as I’m outside the U.S
total T = 29.9 nmol/l or 859 ng/dl
Free T = 731 pmol/l or 210 pg/ml
Estradiol non sensitive = 213 pmol/l or 58 pg/ml
C reactive protein = 0.6 mg/l
Progesterone = 2.8 nmol/l or 0.8 ng/dl.
I think going forward I’ll be lower my EV dose to 0.5mg daily. This is to see if I still retain the benefits of mobility, well being and exercise capacity with lower effective dose. Also while erections where there they weren’t as Rock hard as I was would like and from everything I’ve read on e2 excess erections tend to suffer.

 

[Gman86]

recently got blood work done. Blood was taken morning before my next injection as well as my 1mg estradiol valerate. This is on 120mg a week test cyp dosed 30mg EoD. Accuracy of these tests are questionable as I’m outside the U.S
total T = 29.9 nmol/l or 859 ng/dl
Free T = 731 pmol/l or 210 pg/ml
Estradiol non sensitive = 213 pmol/l or 58 pg/ml
C reactive protein = 0.6 mg/l
Progesterone = 2.8 nmol/l or 0.8 ng/dl.
I think going forward I’ll be lower my EV dose to 0.5mg daily. This is to see if I still retain the benefits of mobility, well being and exercise capacity with lower effective dose. Also while erections where there they weren’t as Rock hard as I was would like and from everything I’ve read on e2 excess erections tend to suffer.

How is ur libido on this protocol?

How is ur progesterone level so high? U don’t take any HCG do u?

 

[Bmac]

How is ur libido on this protocol?

How is ur progesterone level so high? U don’t take any HCG do u?

I found my libido to be great while on this protocol. Libido that sometimes would affect my ability to work. I see I forgot to mention I been taking 50mg oral pregnenolone at night for the past year. Since that progesterone test was the standard one I understand that the accuracy of it is questionable. I’m following the recent increase in interest of progesterone on this forum as my Pre trt levels averaged 4.3 nmol/l or 1.2 ng/dl which then crashed to near 0 on trt. Again that was measured with the standard test so how much of it being measured was not actually progesterone I’m not sure. But for me direct progesterone use with creams or oral seems to causes feminizing sides for me. My normally dark facial hair starts to get lighter in colour with more red hairs as well as my arm hair. To see how progesterone would potential affect Gyno symptoms I applied roughly 10mg prog cream to my right nipple which caused pronounced pain and swelling. This was done a year before my experiment with estradiol valerate. I don’t want to discourage anyone from trying progesterone as I may be completely wrong that it caused feminizing sides just wished there was more research in men with this hormone.