Open vial degraded after 6 months?

[SH3P]

So I'm going on 6 months of using a vial. Since I only inject ~80mg/week, it takes forever to get through a 10ml vial.

On my most recent TT/FT test, my levels had quite a significant drop off without a change in dosage. There seems to be no general consensus on expiration on a vial once punctured, so seeing if anyone has any experience with this, or has data/info I might have skipped over. Tests were taken about 20 weeks apart.

830 ng/dL , 175 pg/mL

to

565 ng/dL 110 pg/mL


Injection schedule is everyday subQ. Wondering if I should just toss the rest of this vial when I get my new one in next week.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Systemlord]

Finish the vial, you'll be fine.

 

[Systemlord]

On my most recent TT/FT test, my levels had quite a significant drop off without a change in dosage.

The factor you never considered, your biology changed and so did your response to TRT.

 

[SH3P]

The factor you never considered, your biology changed and so did your response to TRT.

Just curious, what biological changes could occur in 20 weeks that would result in a 30% decrease in TT?

 

[Vince]

Generally, Testosterone Cypionate has a shelf life ranging from one to three years when stored properly.

 

[SH3P]

Generally, Testosterone Cypionate has a shelf life ranging from one to three years when stored properly.

Is this after opening/puncturing? I've only seen years in regards to properly stored, unopened vials.

 

[Systemlord]

Just curious, what biological changes could occur in 20 weeks that would result in a 30% decrease in TT?

Your metabolism changes, day to day, month to month. Days are shorter in the Fall and Winter months. Your thyroid hormones are slightly higher in the winter months to regulate body temp. Your body is always trying to regulate itself.

You should also note that the FDA allows deviation of strength of the T vials. That means the strength will vary vial to vial regardless of what's written on the vial.

 

[Cataceous]

Is this after opening/puncturing? I've only seen years in regards to properly stored, unopened vials.

Nothing much happens to the testosterone, but carrier oils may degrade over time and be less healthy to inject.

Just curious, what biological changes could occur in 20 weeks that would result in a 30% decrease in TT?

Underlying metabolism of testosterone is unlikely to change much in this time frame. It gradually slows with age, leading to higher testosterone at the same dose. In theory a significant insult to your liver could have the same effect, but in either case you would see an increase in serum testosterone.

More likely you either have a lab error or your SHBG has dropped. With the latter, free testosterone doesn't change but total testosterone decreases. Not sure if your free testosterone was determined with an accurate method. Another possibility is injection site leakage, which is more common with subcutaneous injections.

 

[SH3P]

Nothing much happens to the testosterone, but carrier oils may degrade over time and be less healthy to inject.


Underlying metabolism of testosterone is unlikely to change much in this time frame. It gradually slows with age, leading to higher testosterone at the same dose. In theory a significant insult to your liver could have the same effect, but in either case you would see an increase in serum testosterone.

More likely you either have a lab error or your SHBG has dropped. With the latter, free testosterone doesn't change but total testosterone decreases. Not sure if your free testosterone was determined with an accurate method. Another possibility is injection site leakage, which is more common with subcutaneous injections.

When you say "insult" to the liver, I'm assuming this means stress or injury? In that case, serum levels would be higher (the opposite of my experience)? Just making sure I'm understanding correctly.

I will probably test my SHBG again with my next round of labs.

 

[Vince]

Is this after opening/puncturing? I've only seen years in regards to properly stored, unopened vials.

They tell you 28 days because that's the longest they tested it. But I keep using mine a lot longer.

 

[Jerajera]

More likely you either have a lab error or your SHBG has dropped. With the latter, free testosterone doesn't change but total testosterone decreases

Yes

The factor you never considered, your biology changed and so did your response to TRT.

No, jesus christ

 

[Systemlord]

Yes



No, jesus christ

So changing SHBG levels and therefore a decrease in TT isn’t a biological change?

 

[Seagal]

So I'm going on 6 months of using a vial. Since I only inject ~80mg/week, it takes forever to get through a 10ml vial.

On my most recent TT/FT test, my levels had quite a significant drop off without a change in dosage. There seems to be no general consensus on expiration on a vial once punctured, so seeing if anyone has any experience with this, or has data/info I might have skipped over. Tests were taken about 20 weeks apart.

830 ng/dL , 175 pg/mL

to

565 ng/dL 110 pg/mL


Injection schedule is everyday subQ. Wondering if I should just toss the rest of this vial when I get my new one in next week.

Thanks in advance.

Interesting. What ester is it, what oil?
Maybe you had something additional in the 'mix' like HCG, AAS, Finasteride etc?

 

[SH3P]

Interesting. What ester is it, what oil?
Maybe you had something additional in the 'mix' like HCG, AAS, Finasteride etc?

Test C in cottonseed oil from a compounding pharmacy (not UGL).

No additional medications or supplementation. Both results from the same vial.

 

[Cataceous]

When you say "insult" to the liver, I'm assuming this means stress or injury? In that case, serum levels would be higher (the opposite of my experience)? Just making sure I'm understanding correctly.

Yes, impaired/slower metabolism leads to higher levels of testosterone, the opposite of what you're seeing.

I will probably test my SHBG again with my next round of labs.

This is a good idea. It's useful to have SHBG so that you can calculate free testosterone from total using the Vermeulen method. The general expectation is for average free testosterone to be proportional to the average dose rate.

 

[SH3P]

Yes, impaired/slower metabolism leads to higher levels of testosterone, the opposite of what you're seeing.

This is a good idea. It's useful to have SHBG so that you can calculate free testosterone from total using the Vermeulen method. The general expectation is for average free testosterone to be proportional to the average dose rate.

Thanks for this.

Yeah, I honestly haven't even tested my SHBG since starting over a year ago. Now that I'm experiencing such a deviation, I guess that it's something I need to at least check periodically.

I always do my TT/FT via LC/MS and Equilibrium Dialysis.

 

[Cataceous]

...
I always do my TT/FT via LC/MS and Equilibrium Dialysis.

Equilibrium dialysis is supposed to be the gold standard. Therefore if the test was done correctly then the results point against SHBG causing the variation in testosterone; free testosterone appears to drop in proportion to total. This leaves lab error as the most plausible reason for the large drop in measured testosterone. Consistent injection site leakage seems less likely, though it is something that can increase over time without adequate site rotation; in my experience the tissue gets a little swollen and is then more likely to build up pressure and eject some of the dose. With your daily injections of testosterone cypionate, timing of the test is unlikely to be a factor. Most guys will see little variation in serum testosterone when following this schedule.