Not Enough T?

[jaidee]

I just started taking test cyp, well I started and then I stopped and let me explain why. After going through my labs with my doctor we decided to start on a low dose and then go from there. 80 mg twice per week or 160 mg/week.
Nothing significant to report after the first two injections except maybe a drop in sex drive, however after the third injection I did notice some bad side effects; extreme tension throughout my body, muscles became extremely tight especially shoulders, hamstrings, and back. Very irritable, loss of ability to focus for more than a few seconds and overall feeling very anxious/nervous.
These symptoms started within about two hours of the third injection and progressively got worse over the next 12 hrs, remained steady for about 24 more hrs. 48 hrs after the injection the symptoms started to subside and by about day 4-5 the symptoms were almost gone.
After about 7 days the symptoms had totally subsided.
My first thought that this might be too much test causing these problems, not sure how? But after reading a post about dosing I thought maybe this is too low?
Has anyone had these symptoms or any idea what might be causing them?
Before starting my total T was 440 with a free T of 14.2 just to give a baseline.
Thanks in advance!

r/s
Jaidee

 

[johndoesmith]

I just started taking test cyp, well I started and then I stopped and let me explain why. After going through my labs with my doctor we decided to start on a low dose and then go from there. 80 mg twice per week or 160 mg/week.
Nothing significant to report after the first two injections except maybe a drop in sex drive, however after the third injection I did notice some bad side effects; extreme tension throughout my body, muscles became extremely tight especially shoulders, hamstrings, and back. Very irritable, loss of ability to focus for more than a few seconds and overall feeling very anxious/nervous.
These symptoms started within about two hours of the third injection and progressively got worse over the next 12 hrs, remained steady for about 24 more hrs. 48 hrs after the injection the symptoms started to subside and by about day 4-5 the symptoms were almost gone.
After about 7 days the symptoms had totally subsided.
My first thought that this might be too much test causing these problems, not sure how? But after reading a post about dosing I thought maybe this is too low?
Has anyone had these symptoms or any idea what might be causing them?
Before starting my total T was 440 with a free T of 14.2 just to give a baseline.
Thanks in advance!

r/s
Jaidee

So you stopped TRT after 3 weeks due to rather random symptoms, ones which can be entirely attributed to stress, sleeping in an odd position, or a flu?

These symptoms are not ones attributed to too high testosterone or E2, they are simply just random. Almost sounds like too much caffeine or stimulants honestly.

Plus 160mg per week is not a "low dose" at all. It's a rather decent, if not slightly higher than average dose.

Did you have anything else other than total and free testosterone drawn before starting TRT? 440 isn't a level which usually necessitates TRT.

 

[jaidee]

Thanks for the reply.
I have had all my labs done and I have been following them for over a year. When I first started tracking my T levels total was 361 with a free of 6.1. I started sleeping and eating better and this brought my levels up to the 440/14.2.
Additionally, I did not take it for three weeks; I only took three injections total. It was the third injection and the only variable in this situation (stress was low, sleep was good, not sick, caffeine intake low) was the introduction of the T.
Curious?

 

[johndoesmith]

Thanks for the reply.
I have had all my labs done and I have been following them for over a year. When I first started tracking my T levels total was 361 with a free of 6.1. I started sleeping and eating better and this brought my levels up to the 440/14.2.
Additionally, I did not take it for three weeks; I only took three injections total. It was the third injection and the only variable in this situation (stress was low, sleep was good, not sick, caffeine intake low) was the introduction of the T.
Curious?

It'd be best if you post the other labs, it will facilitate much more productive conversation than what is possible now.

I don't think your problems are from testosterone injections, in fact I've never heard of a response like that, but if you truly believe you're low what is your proposed solution seeing as you don't believe TRT will work?

 

[CoastWatcher]

Thanks for the reply.
I have had all my labs done and I have been following them for over a year. When I first started tracking my T levels total was 361 with a free of 6.1. I started sleeping and eating better and this brought my levels up to the 440/14.2.
Additionally, I did not take it for three weeks; I only took three injections total. It was the third injection and the only variable in this situation (stress was low, sleep was good, not sick, caffeine intake low) was the introduction of the T.
Curious?

It's given: when TRT starts, a patient will become hypersensitive to their body and attribute any and every change to the start of hormone therapy. In some cases, that's fair, the body is undergoing significant changes, serum levels are in flux, reactions are expected. That said, the issues you described aren't typically thought of as side effects associated with TRT.

Patience is required to succeed on any protocol.

 

[zojo360]

Are you on any other prescriptions or take ANY recreational drugs? Do you drink plenty of water (6-8 glasses daily)? Muscle cramps or tightness is a decent sign of dehydration.

 

[Vince Carter]

Three weeks is also the typical time when things get the roughest as negative feedback kicks in and you gut shutdown. You really have to ride it out.

 

[johndoesmith]

Three weeks is also the typical time when things get the roughest as negative feedback kicks in and you gut shutdown. You really have to ride it out.

Believe it or not, shut down occurs really quickly, within days.

If you think about it, it makes perfect sense, as what good is a negative feedback loop if its latency is weeks? It wouldn't prevent levels from going too high in a decent time frame, thus defeating the purpose of it.

 

[Vince Carter]

No one is shutdown within days, John. The feedback loop will start but it will indeed take several weeks to get bottomed out to the point at which you're only T, is Exo T.

 

[johndoesmith]

No one is shutdown within days, John. The feedback loop will start but it will indeed take several weeks to get bottomed out to the point at which you're only T, is Exo T.

Oh. So a 75% reduction in gonadotropins doesn't count?

I'd love to see some evidence of what you're saying, but I think this may be a disagreement in semantics. I don't know at which point you consider "shutdown" to have occurred, because obviously .001% endogenous testosterone doesn't constitute the HPTA being active.

 

[James]

jaidee - your symptoms are identical to what I experienced when starting TRT (tension throughout body, muscles became extremely tight, irritable, loss of ability to focus for more than a few seconds and a overall feeling of being very anxious/nervous). I too started on 160mg but I was doing 1 injection per week at the time. Horrible side effects that had absolutely nothing to do with stress, sleep or flu. 160 mg is not what I consider to be a low starting dose. My relief came from 1/4 mg per week of anastrozole and a cypionate dose of 100 mg per week, significantly less than the 160 we each took. The irritable, anxious, nervous feelings were horrible and started almost immediately once I began TRT. You may want to lower your dose, be patient and raise as symptoms/labs suggest.

 

[Vince]

When I first started TRT, 70mg of T and 500iu of HCG. I did get flu-like symptoms that lasted about two weeks. I was told it was my body adjusting to the hormones.

 

[CSI007]

60g twice a week is a low dose? Uhhh..

 

[CSI007]

Oh. So a 75% reduction in gonadotropins doesn't count?

I'd love to see some evidence of what you're saying, but I think this may be a disagreement in semantics. I don't know at which point you consider "shutdown" to have occurred, because obviously .001% endogenous testosterone doesn't constitute the HPTA being active.

If you will recall, when I switched form nasal gel T to the cream, within 1 to 2 days I started to feel the effects (terrible hot flashes) from the extreme low dose of T that I was getting. I had only been on the cream for a week or week an half.

 

[johndoesmith]

If you will recall, when I switched form nasal gel T to the cream, within 1 to 2 days I started to feel the effects (terrible hot flashes) from the extreme low dose of T that I was getting. I had only been on the cream for a week or week an half.

Hmm, I'm not sure I'm understanding you exactly, but I think you're agreeing with me?

Not being rude or confrontational, just a genuine question because I'm not exactly comprehending what you've said.

 

[Vince]

60g twice a week is a low dose? Uhhh..

I would say that's a good starting dose, but labs will tell.

 

[James]

I agree with Vince. 50 mg or 60 mg twice a week is a good starting dose IMO. 160 mg as a starting dose, and therefore not really knowing how you are going to react, is a bit high. I know exactly how I'm going to react and for me, there's no way I'm injecting 160mg. Currently I'm at 120mg and will likely go down to 100 mg soon. Just feel so much better there...maybe you'll be different, but at this stage in your game, lowering your dose may help you to feel better.

 

[CSI007]

Typo on my part. I meant to say 160mg My keyboard is dying on my laptop. It's missing keys.

That is approaching the typical maximum TRT dosage per week of 200mg.

 

[CSI007]

Hmm, I'm not sure I'm understanding you exactly, but I think you're agreeing with me?

Not being rude or confrontational, just a genuine question because I'm not exactly comprehending what you've said.

Pretty much agree. My body reacts quickly to external things. It took less then 24 hours for the T to drop so quickly and I had only been using it for a week or so an it dropped hard. Down to levels I had never been before I am sure of it.

 

[jaidee]

Thanks to everyone for chiming in. I know why I joined this site
One thing that i forgot to mention is that I am extremely sensitive to any drugs (alcohol, cold medicine...) and as was mentioned this is most likely the cause; something foreign coming into my body and a change is upsetting the "system".
I am going to lower the dose to 60 mg twice per week and see what happens. Stay tuned for more exciting updates!
Thanks again to everyone on this site. The knowledge you all possess is awesome!