Non scrotal application +DHT

[Bryan_K77]

has anyone used topical testosterone on non scrotal areas and had dht tested? I’ve seen guys talk about having high levels on Androgel, but thought maybe the larger surface area of low strength testosterone might convert more to dht? Thanks gents

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Simply taking T will increase DHT. But DHT only increases significantly (and it does increase significantly) when applying a compounded T cream to the scrotum. You should NOT apply Androgel, or any alcohol-based gel to your scrotum by the way. It will burn.

 

[eli]

Simply taking T will increase DHT. But DHT only increases significantly (and it does increase significantly) when applying a compounded T cream to the scrotum. You should NOT apply Androgel, or any alcohol-based gel to your scrotum by the way. It will burn.

Any idea how much difference there is btw dht levels from scrotum vs non-scrotum? Like 50% less dht on non-scrotum?

 

[Bryan_K77]

Any idea how much difference there is btw dht levels from scrotum vs non-scrotum? Like 50% less dht on non-scrotum?

Ya this is exactly what I’m trying to figure out. I know topical T converts more to dht regardless of application site, obviously scrotum is crazy high, mine was 350 ng/dl. Defy had me switch application to non scrotal areas, but I’ve yet to get labs done. Some don’t convert injections to dht hardly at all, I believe Vince Carter was one of them on here. People who may have used 5 ar inhibitors in the past.

 

[Bryan_K77]

I don’t believe that high levels of serum dht are an issue though, as dht is a paracrine hormone and studies show intraprostatic dht levels are tightly controlled. Ya it seems it will blow your hair out if you are prone, and if that is the case and you are concerned for sure don’t apply t cream to your scrotum

 

[Bryan_K77]

I know many guys here started out on Androgel back in the day, were docs testing dht levels back then?

 

[bbex2014]

Defy had me cut my amount that I apply to the scrotum in half because of elevated dht. I still test significantly over the upper dht range applying 1 click to scrotum and 1 to back of knee, forearm, or top of foot twice daily

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Any idea how much difference there is btw dht levels from scrotum vs non-scrotum? Like 50% less dht on non-scrotum?

There is no way to determine that and there is no formula or guideline because it's highly individualized. The numbers and results really do vary drastically from person to person. All anyone will say is "a lot more" as some of the replies of DHT results indicate. Nothing will currently come close to increasing DHT as much as applying T cream to your scrotum.

It isn't an all or nothing proposition. You could apply partial doses of the cream to several areas for example. I use both cream and injections as another example. That is the great thing about using compounded medications with custom strengths that you can't get commercially and progressive care from a clinic like Defy. Everything can be fine-tuned to you as an individual to meet your needs and goals. It sometimes just takes time and effort to figure out complicated cases. I was one of those cases.

 

[bbex2014]

There is no way to determine that and there is no formula or guideline because it's highly individualized. The numbers and results really do vary drastically from person to person. All anyone will say is "a lot more" as some of the replies of DHT results indicate. Nothing will currently come close to increasing DHT as much as applying T cream to your scrotum.

It isn't an all or nothing proposition. You could apply partial doses of the cream to several areas for example. I use both cream and injections as another example. That is the great thing about using compounded medications with custom strengths that you can't get commercially and progressive care from a clinic like Defy. Everything can be fine-tuned to you as an individual to meet your needs and goals. It sometimes just takes time and effort to figure out complicated cases. I was one of those cases.

I totally agree with everything you have here. Hopefully some guys on cream only protocols can share their dht labs on here. If anyone here is doing a cream only protocol through Defy, I can pretty much guarantee they are testing dht levels. What are you doing Jason, 1 click of 200 mg/gm cream scrotally daily added to your injections?

 

[Jason Sypolt]

I totally agree with everything you have here. Hopefully some guys on cream only protocols can share their dht labs on here. If anyone here is doing a cream only protocol through Defy, I can pretty much guarantee they are testing dht levels. What are you doing Jason, 1 click of 200 mg/gm cream scrotally daily added to your injections?

Yes, we test for DHT when a patient is on a T cream. DHT is involved in a lot of things not the least of which is libido, so I highly recommend checking it at least 1-2 times a year no matter what type of treatment one is on. It's good to get a baseline if nothing else and then see how that trends over time because you are getting older every day and no protocol always stays the same.

I use a 5% (50mg cream) with 2 clicks AM, 1 click PM daily. I am a bad example in looking at results because I unknowingly took a 5-ar inhibitor (Accutane) in my late teens. No matter how much T I take (I've tried up to 40mg daily), my DHT never goes above 41. The cream pushes my DHT up to 80-85-ish, drastically improving libido. I have also been trying out the new T nasal gel that Empower makes which is prescribed as a temporary booster and that works very well.

If you are interested in other ways of increasing DHT, there was a small study with rugby players showing that 10g of creatine supplemented daily increased their DHT by 56%. I tried it myself and it does work, but that is a lot of creatine and it made me feel bloated.

If you are a Defy patient and interested in maybe "going around" low DHT-related issues, you can ask about other androgens. It doesn't work for everyone and the doses have to be reasonable in relation to your T, but I've been on low doses of Nandrolone and either Oxandrolone or Stanozolol and my libido is far higher than it ever has been and I'm losing bodyfat like crazy too.

There really are a lot of different options in working with DHT in various ways.

 

[bbex2014]

Damn, I was prescribed Accutane in my teens as well. I never had any sexual dysfunction or libido issues though, never tested dht until I was with Defy so not sure about dht levels prior. I had no idea that you could get oxandrolone or Stanozolol through Defy!

 

[JimboTRT]

Thanks for the great info, @Jason Sypolt. I'm a Defy patient and reached out to them a couple days ago by email. I was inquiring about CJC / Ipam combo but haven't heard back. I also took them up on their offer to order 6 months of T. I received confirmation on my order / payment, but haven't received any shipping confirmation, etc. I'm not upset at all - I totally understand how overwhelmed you guys must be right now. When things settle some, I would like to discuss the possibility of trying CJC / Ipam, benefits, etc. Hang in there!

 

[bbex2014]

Thanks for the great info, @Jason Sypolt. I'm a Defy patient and reached out to them a couple days ago by email. I was inquiring about CJC / Ipam combo but haven't heard back. I also took them up on their offer to order 6 months of T. I received confirmation on my order / payment, but haven't received any shipping confirmation, etc. I'm not upset at all - I totally understand how overwhelmed you guys must be right now. When things settle some, I would like to discuss the possibility of trying CJC / Ipam, benefits, etc. Hang in there!

Has Defy mentioned anything about having trouble potentially getting rows or something? I’m not up for refill until the end of April, I wonder if it would be possible to order early?

 

[WhatSayYou89]

Thanks for the great info, @Jason Sypolt. I'm a Defy patient and reached out to them a couple days ago by email. I was inquiring about CJC / Ipam combo but haven't heard back. I also took them up on their offer to order 6 months of T. I received confirmation on my order / payment, but haven't received any shipping confirmation, etc. I'm not upset at all - I totally understand how overwhelmed you guys must be right now. When things settle some, I would like to discuss the possibility of trying CJC / Ipam, benefits, etc. Hang in there!

How did you get an offer to order 6 months worth of T? DEA is pretty strict on this.

 

[JimboTRT]

How did you get an offer to order 6 months worth of T? DEA is pretty strict on this.

That's my mistake, I should have worded that differently. You can place your order to be placed in queue. I assume they will fill and ship at the proper time (after the first three months) according to DEA guidelines. I basically prepaid for an additional three months. My understanding this only applies to current patients.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

I will first apologize to everyone inconvenienced and concerned because of delays. We have had a massive influx of calls and orders and emails. We are getting through those much faster now, but delays (or not) in shipping are partly going to depend not only on the pharmacy since they make the medications that you order and then ship to you, but also on the shipping carriers because they are crushed as well. If you’ve tried to order anything from Amazon last week, you have probably seen that Prime is basically standard 3-4 day shipping at this point. At least that is what it is like in Tampa, and we even have a regional distribution center nearby. I’m sure Empower is being swamped with orders from all over the country too.

Secondly, I will explain. We(Defy) sent out an email to patients to give some everyone some flexibility and options during the COVID-19 pandemic. No one knows what this will end up looking like or how long it will last, and so the last thing we want is for patients to run out of medications and not get the care you need. So we are relaxing requirements and dates as best we can.

- You can refill 4 weeks early instead of 2.
- You can order a 6-month supply of medications, including testosterone.
- Labs and PE requirements are extended for everyone.
If you have a special exception or concern then please contact us and let us know and we will work with you on a case by case basis.

 

[WhatSayYou89]

I will first apologize to everyone inconvenienced and concerned because of delays. We have had a massive influx of calls and orders and emails. We are getting through those much faster now, but delays (or not) in shipping are partly going to depend not only on the pharmacy since they make the medications that you order and then ship to you, but also on the shipping carriers because they are crushed as well. If you’ve tried to order anything from Amazon last week, you have probably seen that Prime is basically standard 3-4 day shipping at this point. At least that is what it is like in Tampa, and we even have a regional distribution center nearby. I’m sure Empower is being swamped with orders from all over the country too.

Secondly, I will explain. We(Defy) sent out an email to patients to give some everyone some flexibility and options during the COVID-19 pandemic. No one knows what this will end up looking like or how long it will last, and so the last thing we want is for patients to run out of medications and not get the care you need. So we are relaxing requirements and dates as best we can.

- You can refill 4 weeks early instead of 2.
- You can order a 6-month supply of medications, including testosterone.
- Labs and PE requirements are extended for everyone.
If you have a special exception or concern then please contact us and let us know and we will work with you on a case by case basis.

Is there a long wait on getting a consultation?

I recently tried swapping to cream and I’m going back to injections but I can’t order that until I have a consultation done.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Is there a long wait on getting a consultation?

I recently tried swapping to cream and I’m going back to injections but I can’t order that until I have a consultation done.

No, consults can be scheduled quickly. The delays are with shipping products anywhere.

 

[Cataceous]

I think we did find some research supporting the idea that higher concentrations of topical testosterone on a smaller skin area generate less DHT than lower concentrations on a larger area, with the same total dose. This is because of the local saturation of 5-alpha reductase.

Even without scrotal application, topical testosterone can be very efficient at raising DHT. For example, on Androgel with a total testosterone of only 165 ng/dL, my DHT was measured as 65 ng/dL. A little while later, on injections, total testosterone was 1,250 and DHT was under 50 ng/dL.

 

[bbex2014]

I think we did find some research supporting the idea that higher concentrations of topical testosterone on a smaller skin area generate less DHT than lower concentrations on a larger area, with the same total dose. This is because of the local saturation of 5-alpha reductase.

Even without scrotal application, topical testosterone can be very efficient at raising DHT. For example, on Androgel with a total testosterone of only 165 ng/dL, my DHT was measured as 65 ng/dL. A little while later, on injections, total testosterone was 1,250 and DHT was under 50 ng/dL.

Very insightful as always brother, thank you!