New Member Intro 54yr old triathlete

[madman]

Also, I am new to injections. I have read that the needles that I got from the pharmacy (31g .5cc x 1/2") are pretty small. The problem I am having is drawing the test into the syringe, seems like it is taking a looooong time for a little. I know a smaller number is larger needle size, but not sure how much larger to go? I see some 28g with the same specs. Are those too big?

Syringes without script

www.excelmale.com

The kicker here is if you are injecting daily than the volume of oil you will be injecting is minimal as on average most men on trt would be injecting 100-150mg/week of T (200mg/ml strength test).

Some may even end up injecting <100mg/week and others may end up injecting 200mg/week which is not common let alone needed by most even when injecting daily.

In your case, you have been prescribed a whopping dose of T 210mg/week (30mg esterified T daily) which would be .15ml/15 units when using an insulin syringe (100/50/30 unit).

Even when using a 31 gauge if the oil is warmed one should be able to draw 15 units fairly quickly.

If you are going to take the advice given and start your trt protocol using a lower overall weekly dose of T than you will be drawing much less when injecting daily.

Most on daily are injecting far less per week as in 10-20mg esterified T or .05ml/5 units--->.1ml/10 units when using an insulin syringe.

Again if the oil is warmed than drawing 5-10 units should be a breeze let alone fast.

 

[Cataceous]

Dudes who are new to injections don’t need 31g. Too difficult.

I will never understand why you guys are so into 31g for people who are relatively new to injecting. Do you have your newborns drink through a coffee straw?

It depends on the size of the injections. For small daily injections like the OP was prescribed a smaller gauge is fine for beginners. It's got to be less intimidating when the needles are so tiny...

 

[madman]

If I were to inject daily (strictly sub-q) than these would be my first choice!

.3ml (30 unit) 31G in 6MM or 8MM needle length.....quick and painless seeing as you are darting yourself frequently.

Forget the 1/2"(12.7mm) needles!




BD ULTRAFINE II SYRINGE, 3/10CC, 6MM, 31g

BD ULTRAFINE II SYRINGE, 3/10CC, 8MM, 31G

 

[Ronnny]

Hi everyone
Obvious new member, 54 years old. Endurance athlete who has surprisingly found himself with a low libido and testosterone in the 189-192 range. Currently in a reduced training cycle due to Covid and a sore achilles, but usual training distances are around 50-60 miles a week running, and 80-90 miles bike. I swim 3 or 4 x a month, since that is my strong event.
Recently sought out some help, and have been prescribed .15ml sub q injections of testosterone cypionate daily, (200 mg/ml), and NP Thyroid 60mg tabs 1x per day. Just here lurking about to see if this is going to be successful at prescribed levels, and if I need to be doing anything else. So, hello. Glad to be here and glean some knowledge to help
I'm looking to improve my sleep, libido, and recovery, all of which have taken huge hits over the past 2-3 years.

Unfortunately TRT did not bring back sleep cycle to normal. I still have difficulty falling in sleep. I think as we age we produce less growth hormone, and sleep issue comes from lack of HGH I believe. I heard lot of people sleep better with growth hormone. I am still not sure about that, but optimistic about it. But TRT definitely gives me more energry, more mental focus.

 

[Ronnny]

Hi everyone
Obvious new member, 54 years old. Endurance athlete who has surprisingly found himself with a low libido and testosterone in the 189-192 range. Currently in a reduced training cycle due to Covid and a sore achilles, but usual training distances are around 50-60 miles a week running, and 80-90 miles bike. I swim 3 or 4 x a month, since that is my strong event.
Recently sought out some help, and have been prescribed .15ml sub q injections of testosterone cypionate daily, (200 mg/ml), and NP Thyroid 60mg tabs 1x per day. Just here lurking about to see if this is going to be successful at prescribed levels, and if I need to be doing anything else. So, hello. Glad to be here and glean some knowledge to help
I'm looking to improve my sleep, libido, and recovery, all of which have taken huge hits over the past 2-3 years.

TRT with right diet makes a difference. Avoid junk food and eat only healthy food. I feel bad and lethargic next day when I eat lot of carb and sugary food. I try to avoid sugar as much as I can. Also BP med, antidepressant, antihistamine, anti-acid and pain med all cause low testosterone in men. So be aware of that when you are trying to get on TRT.

 

[fifty]

Trt made my sleep markedly worse.

 

[Ronnny]

Trt made my sleep markedly worse.

I agree with you. But for me I always had sleep issue , its all same for me before or after TRT.

 

[Kennyyoli]

Thanks guys for all the input. As I had mentioned, I had an appointment on Friday with my Dr. He adjusted my rate by half, at my request. I told him I wanted to start smaller, and titrate up if necessary after my first bloodwork. He agreed to this, although he indicated that at my endogenous levels, that 210mg a week was an appropriate regimen in his experience.
He did give me some 28g needles as well, which load up much easier/faster. No difference in the injection itself with the larger needle.
Looking forward to feeling better. Again, thanks to everyone for the input. I'll continue to post updates on my progress, and any effects the treatment has on my training and racing.

 

[madman]

Thanks guys for all the input. As I had mentioned, I had an appointment on Friday with my Dr. He adjusted my rate by half, at my request. I told him I wanted to start smaller, and titrate up if necessary after my first bloodwork. He agreed to this, although he indicated that at my endogenous levels, that 210mg a week was an appropriate regimen in his experience.
He did give me some 28g needles as well, which load up much easier/faster. No difference in the injection itself with the larger needle.
Looking forward to feeling better. Again, thanks to everyone for the input. I'll continue to post updates on my progress, and any effects the treatment has on my training and racing.

Even with those TT levels, one would not need to inject 30mg esterified T daily (210mg/week) in order to achieve a healthy FT level.

Keep in mind that there are many clinics which we would refer to as T-mills which start their patients on the high-end dose 200mg once weekly and let's not forget the added AI seeing as such dose would have most men's TT/FT/e2 levels very high (peak) let alone drive up RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

Have no clue where your SHBG) sits but again injecting 30mg esterified T daily is a whopping dose.

My levels pre-trt were not much higher than yours and I can hit a trough TT 1200ng/dL and high FT injecting 75 mg every 3.5 days (150mg/week).

Many men can easily achieve a healthy FT injecting 100-150mg/week.

Forget worrying about where your TT will end up as you should be more concerned with your FT level.

 

[Kennyyoli]

Even with those TT levels, one would not need to inject 30mg esterified T daily (210mg/week) in order to achieve a healthy FT level.

Keep in mind that there are many clinics which we would refer to as T-mills which start their patients on the high-end dose 200mg once weekly and let's not forget the added AI seeing as such dose would have most men's TT/FT/e2 levels very high (peak) let alone drive up RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

Have no clue where your SHBG) sits but again injecting 30mg esterified T daily is a whopping dose.

My levels pre-trt were not much higher than yours and I can hit a trough TT 1200ng/dL and high FT injecting 75 mg every 3.5 days (150mg/week).

Many men can easily achieve a healthy FT injecting 100-150mg/week.

Forget worrying about where your TT will end up as you should be more concerned with your FT level.

I'm right there with you. I've always been a proponent of less is more. So where Im at now, is my 5th day in, doing daily injections of 7.5 units or 15mg daily. I don't mind doing the daily injections but wont say I will feel that way a year from now. Right now there is some novelty in it. I have read some good things regarding daily injections, in that it keeps your levels stable over the long haul.
What is crazy is, I'm pretty sure I'm having some placebo effect in training. Today is my 5th day of injections, and this morning I felt unbelievable on my run. Tons of energy, legs felt fresh, and my strides felt strong. The crazy part of that is that yestrday was "Long Run Sunday" which consisted of 19 miles of hills at 70% race pace. Usually the morning after I'm pretty trashed, but today was crazy good. Way too soon for treatment to be taking effect, so I'll just stick with my placebo theory. lol

 

[Golfboy307]

You are in the "honeymoon" period during the first week or two. You body has not shut down your natural production just yet, and you are also getting the benefit from the exogenous T along with your natural levels. So, its not placebo, but just know that it will take your body several months to adjust to the external TRT regimen.

 

[Kennyyoli]

OK, Not sure if I should continue this thread, or start a new one.
2 weeks in, and apart from that one day where my run training was phenomenal, pretty much feel the same.
One thing that has changed, is my weight. I have jumped up 6lbs of water weight, almost overnight. On the bike and run days, this is a hinderance. Is water weight going to be permanent or will I acclimate and drop that back off?

 

[Kennyyoli]

OK
6 months update.
Wow.... The water weight I gained never went away. I have stayed the same weight for the entire time. I think I gradually lost the water, and put on muscle. But I haven't had a dexa scan or anything to confirm that. I am on the same protocol, and my last bloodwork had my T at 588. After the first few months of what I would call a rollercoaster, things really leveled back out physiologically. I had a few weeks of my heart racing at night, my pulse was higher than normal for awhile, even while training. My hematocrit numbers went up, then back down. I am low carb, and my fasting glucose numbers started creeping up, even when I had no change in diet. Then finally, around late October, it was like things got back to my new normal. Blood sugar normalized. My pulse/resting heart rate went back to what I consider normal ranges. My sleep has improved, my libido is strong, I feel great. I am so glad I stuck it out. I was just about to throw in the towel, due to all the fluctuations in blood sugar,sleep, heart rate, etc.. but my doctor encouraged me to just stay the course, that eventually I would adjust and feel great. I am so happy that I listened. My new normal is exactly what I had hoped for when I started TRT. For anyone reading this that is in a similar stage or condition, I would encourage you to give your body time to adjust. This is definitely a long game. But very much worth it.

 

[madman]

OK
6 months update.
Wow.... The water weight I gained never went away. I have stayed the same weight for the entire time. I think I gradually lost the water, and put on muscle. But I haven't had a dexa scan or anything to confirm that. I am on the same protocol, and my last bloodwork had my T at 588. After the first few months of what I would call a rollercoaster, things really leveled back out physiologically. I had a few weeks of my heart racing at night, my pulse was higher than normal for awhile, even while training. My hematocrit numbers went up, then back down. I am low carb, and my fasting glucose numbers started creeping up, even when I had no change in diet. Then finally, around late October, it was like things got back to my new normal. Blood sugar normalized. My pulse/resting heart rate went back to what I consider normal ranges. My sleep has improved, my libido is strong, I feel great. I am so glad I stuck itout. I was just about to throw in the towel, due to all the fluctuations in blood sugar,sleep, heart rate, etc.. but my doctor encouraged me to just stay the course, that eventually I would adjust and feel great. I am so happy that I listened.My new normal is exactly what I had hoped for when I started TRT. For anyone reading this that is in a similar stage or condition, I would encourage you to give your body time to adjust. This is definitely a long game. But very much worth it.

Glad to hear!

I have been trying to hammer this down on here for ages.

Unfortunately, too many wants/expect that quick fix let alone do not understand that when starting trt or tweaking a protocol (dose/injection frequency) the first 6 weeks is very misleading as hormones are in FLUX, and even then more importantly once blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks) the most critical time period is during the next 2-3 months as it will take time for the body to fully adapt to those new levels and this is when one should gauge how they truly feel overall on such protocol (dose T/injection frequency).




*my doctor encouraged me to just stay the course, that eventually I would adjust and feel great

*I would encourage you to give your body time to adjust

 

[madman]

OK
6 months update.
Wow.... The water weight I gained never went away. I have stayed the same weight for the entire time. I think I gradually lost the water, and put on muscle. But I haven't had a dexa scan or anything to confirm that. I am on the same protocol, and my last bloodwork had my T at 588. After the first few months of what I would call a rollercoaster, things really leveled back out physiologically. I had a few weeks of my heart racing at night, my pulse was higher than normal for awhile, even while training. My hematocrit numbers went up, then back down. I am low carb, and my fasting glucose numbers started creeping up, even when I had no change in diet. Then finally, around late October, it was like things got back to my new normal. Blood sugar normalized. My pulse/resting heart rate went back to what I consider normal ranges. My sleep has improved, my libido is strong, I feel great. I am so glad I stuck it out. I was just about to throw in the towel, due to all the fluctuations in blood sugar,sleep, heart rate, etc.. but my doctor encouraged me to just stay the course, that eventually I would adjust and feel great. I am so happy that I listened. My new normal is exactly what I had hoped for when I started TRT. For anyone reading this that is in a similar stage or condition, I would encourage you to give your body time to adjust. This is definitely a long game. But very much worth it.

Post full labs?

Interested in seeing where your TT/FT/e2 levels sit on your current protocol (low dose T daily injections) let alone hematocrit.

You only posted your TT 558 ng/dL and again although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the unbound active fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

Just going off of where your TT level sits means nothing when looking at the bigger picture.

Keep in mind that you would need to have your FT tested using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best) to know where your FT level truly sits on such protocol (dose T/injection frequency).






Unfortunately, your doctor was out to lunch on this one!

Imagine if you took his advice and started out on 30 mg/day (210 mg/week).....you would have most likely been a mess!

From the thread, you started in July/2020:

• #6

Kennyyoli said:
Hi everyone
Obvious new member, 54 years old. Endurance athlete who has surprisingly found himself with a low libido and testosterone in the 189-192 range. Currently in a reduced training cycle due to Covid and a sore achilles, but usual training distances are around 50-60 miles a week running, and 80-90 miles bike. I swim 3 or 4 x a month, since that is my strong event.
Recently sought out some help, and have been prescribed .15ml sub q injections of testosterone cypionate daily, (200 mg/ml), and NP Thyroid 60mg tabs 1x per day. Just here lurking about to see if this is going to be successful at prescribed levels, and if I need to be doing anything else. So, hello. Glad to be here and glean some knowledge to help
I'm looking to improve my sleep, libido, and recovery, all of which have taken huge hits over the past 2-3 years.

My reply:

Way too high of a T dose to start on!

Most are using fixed insulin syringes to inject. (sub-q/IM).

The strength of your test is 200mg/ml (Testosterone Cypionate)

100mg Testosterone Cypionate= 70mg of active T (no ester)



1ml insulin syringe= 100 units

.15ml= 15 units= 30mg of esterified T (Testosterone Cypionate) = 21mg of active T (no ester) as @Cataceous stated.


You would be injecting 30mg of esterified T daily (210mg/week)

Whopping dose to start on to say the least.

 

[Willyt]

OK
6 months update.
Wow.... The water weight I gained never went away. I have stayed the same weight for the entire time. I think I gradually lost the water, and put on muscle. But I haven't had a dexa scan or anything to confirm that. I am on the same protocol, and my last bloodwork had my T at 588. After the first few months of what I would call a rollercoaster, things really leveled back out physiologically. I had a few weeks of my heart racing at night, my pulse was higher than normal for awhile, even while training. My hematocrit numbers went up, then back down. I am low carb, and my fasting glucose numbers started creeping up, even when I had no change in diet. Then finally, around late October, it was like things got back to my new normal. Blood sugar normalized. My pulse/resting heart rate went back to what I consider normal ranges. My sleep has improved, my libido is strong, I feel great. I am so glad I stuck it out. I was just about to throw in the towel, due to all the fluctuations in blood sugar,sleep, heart rate, etc.. but my doctor encouraged me to just stay the course, that eventually I would adjust and feel great. I am so happy that I listened. My new normal is exactly what I had hoped for when I started TRT. For anyone reading this that is in a similar stage or condition, I would encourage you to give your body time to adjust. This is definitely a long game. But very much worth it.

Great to see you having success at 6 month mark, notably the libido which seems to disappear for many of us once the upstream hormones shut down. How has the TRT affected your triathlon endurance/cardio, especially considering the extra 6lbs?

I’m curious because while my strength and energy significantly increased with cypionate, my cardio definitely declined and lactic acid buildup seemed worse. Sometimes I would be out of breath from simple activities like going up the stairs and even more so on training outings for my hobby Nordic XC skiing. Like you, I put on weight (12-15lbs) which I now think was probably 50% water retention.