I have had an account here for a while but I rarely get on here. I was more involved on the PEAK TESTOSTERONE forum and hope to run across some of those felllas here. I am really interested to hear what all symptoms everyone notices most when they know their E2 is higher than it should be. I know there is the swelling, ed, emotional etc. But I am interested to know what it is that is a "red flag" to you alerting you to the imbalance and what you do about it. Myself, I am extremely sensitive to any changes in my E2, up or down. And sometimes the symptoms do not make sense. For instance, I get really dizzy and can't see as well and I think my reflux gets worse. What are some of the uncommon or unusual symptoms that you notice?
Vince
Super Moderator
I've been on TRT for over 9 years. I've never had any E2 symptoms. Thankfully I never got talked into using an AI.
Systemlord
Member
Many men confuse the TRT induced sodium reabsorption via the kidneys which causes fluid retention and think these symptoms are coming from high estrogen. I have high estrogen on TRT and have no issues whatsoever and I've never had any sort of fluid retention on TRT.
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I can gain 7lbs in a couple of days if I do not take an AI.
Systemlord
Member
The AI acts like a water pill. It’s a bad-aid solution.
Daveleeander
New Member
I’m going on 11 years of trt and don’t an AI. I’ve had E2 values in the 90’s (remember E2 is made in the tissue and the blood work number is not a serum value) and have not had what others call “high estrogen sides”. I’m not even sure what they would be. I have however crashed my E2 (first year and taking .25 mg Anastrozole twice a week) and vowed never to make that mistake again. Haven’t for the next 10 years. I have Total T in the 800-1100 range depending on whether I’m taking HCG or not.
Soft erections, diminished libido, and increased anxiety….as long as I keep my dose on the lower end my E2 doesn’t give me any problems…back when I ran higher levels I would start getting soft erections like clockwork when it reached the upper 30s or higher….never could get the AI dialed in back in the day
Anywhere in the 20s to low/mid 30s….back when I used an AI I ended up crashing down to single digits (I “over respond” to anastrozole), and I lost all sex drive….funny thing is I recall feeling pretty good even in the teens though. Haven’t used an AI in about 9-10 years after lowering my dose (was on 1cc once a week with AI when I started and I look back at pics and I looked like a bloated toad). I don’t tolerate high levels of test, so I guess it makes sense I don’t function well with higher levels of E2 (although mid 30s isn’t that high….I see some of these guys talking about feeling good in the 50s and 60s and shake my head in wonder).
DixieWrecked
Well-Known Member
You are also a low aromatizer though correct?
Vince
Super Moderator
Yes I had lower E2 my whole life and never felt anything from it. Good or bad.
It’s funny how different everybody is….That’s why I get so irked when I hear people speak in absolutes on the whole AI issue….I agree it’s best to try not to use one IN GENERAL, and I don’t agree with throwing a guy on a dose of test and automatically adding an AI….but the other side pisses me off just as much with the whole “never, ever” mantra. There are guys that over aromatize, there are guys that are just sensitive to higher estrogen levels…I personally know guys that can’t achieve a decent T level without keeping their estrogen tamped down.
I think where a lot of the problem lies is that when AIs get prescribed they are way overdosed, both in strength and frequency. There is also Estrone (which doesn’t get talked about much) and a whole lot of other factors that can affect people at the individual level….rant over
I think where a lot of the problem lies is that when AIs get prescribed they are way overdosed, both in strength and frequency. There is also Estrone (which doesn’t get talked about much) and a whole lot of other factors that can affect people at the individual level….rant over
testiculus
Active Member
Irritability when E2 gets too high. Anastrozole's effectiveness varies by individual. Small amounts may be all you need to control high E2 symptoms. I only take 63 mcg per dose.
Systemlord
Member
Many tend to overlook that estrogen can increase or influence serotonin secretion which can then lead to symptoms including agitation, anxiety, restlessness, disorientation, diaphoresis, hyperthermia, tachycardia, nausea, and flushed skin.
So by claiming high estrogen is the cause of your symptoms because you took an AI and symptoms resolved isn't very scientific, it's a conclusion based off zero evidence that high estrogen was in fact causing your symptoms.
So many hormones affect other hormones, counterbalancing each other. I'm not saying AI's aren't necessary, in some cases the are.
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Hi Mr L. I do remember you from PeakT. Several of the PeakT regulars ended up coming here.
Regarding your question, for me the only definitive side effect of high estradiol is excessive emotional responsiveness. While AI use diminished this symptom, it did not resolve the overall imbalance I felt on a TRT protocol that included hCG. As a result I eventually stopped using hCG, opting to instead stimulate endogenous LH production via GnRH administration.
Think anyone with a brain will agree with ur rant. Everyone is different. If everything worked properly we wouldn’t be on exogenous hormones in the first place. To think that u just don’t produce enough test, or too much of the test is bound, or ur receptors aren’t sensitive enough for u to feel good with the test that’s in ur system, and to think every other hormone process is just still working great, is well, insane lol. When it comes to E2, u have to consider that the person’s body fat levels can fluctuate. I think most people know by now that the more fat u carry, the more aromatase enzymes u’ll have, and the chances of u converting more testosterone into estrogen goes up. When u gain fat ur testosterone levels don’t concurrently increase as well. U also have to factor in receptor sensitivity. A man can have the same E2 levels in his serum, but their estrogen receptor sensitivity could fluctuate. And then there’s diet to consider. Consuming a lot of zinc can decrease estrogen levels, consuming a lot of healthy fats and copper can increase estrogen levels. Consuming tumeric/ curcumin can decrease dht levels, and dht inhibits estrogen to a degree. So where ur dht levels sit play a role as well. There’s just so many factors to consider, and so many moving parts at all times. So to say that all men just need to control their test dose, in order to feel their best, is just ridiculous. Hopefully most guys can keep things this simple. But not everyone is going to be so lucky. Needing to control estrogen, independently of their test dose, is just going to be the reality of some men
The only way to effectively manage E2 is with a non-aromatizable androgen in place of some T (some depends on how much you aromatize). In an ideal world, if it were available compounded, drostanolone enanthate. Same relative t 1/2 as TE or TC and can still maintain the anabolic equiv of T in skeletal muscle bc it is not subject to metabolism by 3-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase. It does not adversely affect blood lipids or is hepatotoxic. When combined with TC/TE would maintain T to E2 and DHT ratios and solve the E2 problem from peak to trough between injections. AIs IMO are overrated as are perceived E2 problems unless DHT is low and E2 is high. The t 1/2 of AIs don't match T esters and E2 ends up all over the place. It's pounding a square peg in a round hole.
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