Need some advice.

[Systemlord]

Doc said because I have been on for so many years that my receptors are not as good anymore and needed to increase dose.

The typical comment from an uneducated doctor that wants to sound like he knows what he’s talking about.

 

[Vince]

Opening post from your 2018 thread:

S

Thread 'Transitioning from Inj to TD’s'

Feb 28, 2018

I searched everywhere with no luck. If one is on weekly 200 T and would like to transition to daily 200mg transdermal, would I start the 200mg TD on day 8 after last injection? Or would I use a gradual increase scale starting day 8 with a TD smaller dose.

• Smokey
• Replies: 10
• Forum: Testosterone Basics & Questions

I searched everywhere with no luck. If one is on weekly 200 T and would like to transition to daily 200mg transdermal, would I start the 200mg TD on day 8 after last injection? Or would I use a gradual increase scale starting day 8 with a TD smaller dose.

Sounds like you have been caught up on that more T is better mentality!




post #6

I have experimented with many injection protocols from 1x weekly to 2x weekly with and without arimidex and they work for a while and then I go downhill. The main reason is that I do not like the change in the face area that injections seem to give when combining with hcg. The area on either side of my nose seems to hold water which looks abnormal.....and I notice this with many others using injection but do not notice with those that use creams. I am however going to give the injections one more chance with a much lower dose like Nelson uses (50mg x2 plus 500 hcg x2 per week) since the lowest I have used is 65mg x2 per week which built me up to 1227 total T and 41E. Will let you know results.

130 mg T split (65mg twice-weekly) way back when only to end up running an absurd weekly dose 100 mg TC every 3 days (roughly 233 mg TC/week) which clearly has you overmedicated!

Looking over most of your previous replies in threads on the forum you have tried numerous protocols (dose T/injection frequency) low--->high struggling with numerous sides, ED, elevated, hematocrit, acne and bloat.

160 mg T/week seemed to be your sweet spot yet you somehow have ended up banging a whopping 233 mg TC/week!

Who the hell is treating you?

No one in their right mind would need a weekly T dose higher than the top-end therapeutic dose 200 mg T/week to experience relief/improvement of low-T symptoms and overall well-being!

Top it off the majority of men would never even need 200 mg T/week to achieve a healthy/high trough FT let alone experience relief/improvement of low-T symptoms and overall well-being!

I would consider adding in HCG. Remember different we all are. I inject 500 iu of HCG every third day. A good starting is 250 IU twice a week.

 

[madman]

I would consider adding in HCG. Remember different we all are. I inject 500 iu of HCG every third day. A good starting is 250 IU twice a week.

Current Protocol: 100 mg every third day of Cypionate injectable IM, and I cycle HCG every 2-3 months for 2 months on. Below results tested without HCG.

Did you miss that part LOL!

Piss poor advice telling the poor chap to throw in hCG without lowering his absurd weekly dose of T!

 

[Smokey]

Well the best I have ever felt is 200mg weekly, 25 mg exestamine twice weekly and 500 mg hcg MWF, plus GHRP6 (no longer available). However this lasts about 10 weeks then feeling goes down hill.

Cream works for about two months with out AI, then feeling goes down hill

I have to admit that I do drink two to three IPA beers every night.

Weight always stays between 180-185

 

[Vince]

Current Protocol: 100 mg every third day of Cypionate injectable IM, and I cycle HCG every 2-3 months for 2 months on. Below results tested without HCG.

Did you miss that part LOL!

Piss poor advice telling the poor chap to throw in hCG without lowering his absurd weekly dose of T!

Of course you split your T dose. Wasn't that already explained to him?

 

[Smokey]

I think I will try the once weekly 200mg and HCG 3x's per week with mild AI dose and report back. Seems like every time I lower the dose without AI the estrogen sides catch up and I go down hill.

 

[madman]

Of course you split your T dose. Wasn't that already explained to him?

Again piss poor advice telling the guy to throw in hCG without lowering his absurd weekly dose of T!

He was already injecting 100 mg TC every 3 days (roughly 233 mg/week).

T-only protocol using an absurd weekly dose of T as you can clearly see he had labs done 48 hrs post-injection and he is hitting a ridiculous TT 1900s with FT through the roof his true trough 24 hrs later would still have his TT ridiculously high and more importantly FT absurdly high!

The advice given was that he easily has room to lower his weekly dose of T and to inject more frequently which would clip the peak and allow one to still attain a healthy trough FT.

Again you jumped in and told him to throw in hCG yet never even mentioned to make sure that he lowered his absurd weekly dose of T!

The last thing he wants to do here is drive up his TT and more importantly FT further which is a given if he sticks with his current protocol 100 mg TC every 3 days (233 mg/week) and adds in the hCG as you stated!

Top it off that if you had read his posts from his previous thread let alone replies to other peoples threads you would have seen that he has already struggled with elevated hematocrit, ED, acne, bloat most likely due to running too high a trough/steady-state FT level.

This guy is caught up on f**king with an AI due to elevated e2......wonder why!

 

[madman]

I think I will try the once weekly 200mg and HCG 3x's per week with mild AI dose and report back. Seems like every time I lower the dose without AI the estrogen sides catch up and I go down hill.

You are going to be back to square one here!

Lowering your weekly T dose from 100 mg TC every 3 days an absurd 233--->200 mg T/week is still going to have your true trough (7 days) post-injection FT high.

Throwing in the hCG is going to drive up your TT and more importantly FT further let alone it is a given your estradiol will be high as you seem to be dead set here on managing it with an AI!

Setting yourself up for failure here.

Again it is a given you will end up struggling with elevated hematocrit when running a high trough/steady-state FT level!

You would be far better off injecting more frequently and lowering your overall weekly T dose which will clip the peak big time while still allowing you to maintain a healthy trough FT while at the same time chances are you will not need to rely on the use of an AI to control the elevated estradiol!

You still never even posted up your RBCs,hemoglobin and hematocrit on your current protocol let alone iron/ferritin?

Regardless if you are caught up on this needing to run a high/absurdly high trough FT level then do what you feel is best for you!

Point being stressed from the get-go is that you are clearly OVERMEDICATED here!

 

[Vince]

Again piss poor advice telling the guy to throw in hCG without lowering his absurd weekly dose of T!

He was already injecting 100 mg TC every 3 days (roughly 233 mg/week).

T-only protocol using an absurd weekly dose of T as you can clearly see he had labs done 48 hrs post-injection and he is hitting a ridiculous TT 1900s with FT through the roof his true trough 24 hrs later would still have his TT ridiculously high and more importantly FT absurdly high!

The advice given was that he easily has room to lower his weekly dose of T and to inject more frequently which would clip the peak and allow one to still attain a healthy trough FT.

Again you jumped in and told him to throw in hCG yet never even mentioned to make sure that he lowered his absurd weekly dose of T!

The last thing he wants to do here is drive up his TT and more importantly FT further which is a given if he sticks with his current protocol 100 mg TC every 3 days (233 mg/week) and adds in the hCG as you stated!

Top it off that if you had read his posts from his previous thread let alone replies to other peoples threads you would have seen that he has already struggled with elevated hematocrit, ED, acne, bloat most likely due to running too high a trough/steady-state FT level.

This guy is caught up on f**king with an AI due to elevated e2......wonder why!

I think everyone should use HCG. If not, at least try it. It's been so beneficial for so many members. I love having that strong libido.

 

[Phil Goodman]

I think I will try the once weekly 200mg and HCG 3x's per week with mild AI dose and report back. Seems like every time I lower the dose without AI the estrogen sides catch up and I go down hill.

You said you’ve done this in the past and it works for about 10 weeks then things go downhill. Don’t be surprised if that’s the case again.

A key aspect to doing this for the long term is to balance feeling optimal with sustainability. I’m sure most people could feel great for a while on huge doses(not saying yours would be absurdly huge, just making a point), but if it isn’t sustainable then it isn’t a viable long term plan.

 

[Smokey]

The challenge is that I have never found a dose that is sustainable even at 60 mg twice per week / 500 hcg twice per week The estrogen eventually drives upwards. I can try this again along with a high quality DIM supplement and reduce the high quality fermented non pasteurized beer:

Hematocrit has always stayed below 52 and estrogen has been driven as high as 70

Thanks to all for the advice!

 

[Phil Goodman]

The challenge is that I have never found a dose that is sustainable even at 60 mg twice per week / 500 hcg twice per week The estrogen eventually drives upwards. I can try this again along with a high quality DIM supplement and reduce the high quality fermented non pasteurized beer:

Hematocrit has always stayed below 52 and estrogen has been driven as high as 70

Thanks to all for the advice!

Regardless of the E2 levels, what are the symptoms? What makes you so sure they are from estrogen?

Do the symptoms change when you go off of HCG? A large amount of aromatization occurs in the leydig cells so it’s likely that HCG will result in more aromatization.

With regard to alcohol, very few supplements (probably only testosterone itself) do as much for my optimization as simply removing alcohol from my habits. I think I’m more sensitive to it than most, but honestly I’ve never met a single person who stopped for a month without saying they felt much better.

 

[Smokey]

Symptoms are bloated face and more sensitive/paranoid from higher E. I only partake in 1 to 2 strong beers per day but will stop for a few weeks to see. Thanks for the advice and feedback

 

[Phil Goodman]

Symptoms are bloated face and more sensitive/paranoid from higher E. I only partake in 1 to 2 strong beers per day but will stop for a few weeks to see. Thanks for the advice and feedback.

No problem.

Bloated face and anxiety could be caused by many different things so it’s quite possible that those have nothing to do with your T/E2 ratio. And honestly, reduced facial puffiness is one of the first things I notice when going dry from alcohol. I don’t really get anxiety from drinking, but certainly a reduced sense of well-being the next day.

And if you are constantly adjusting your protocol every 8-12 weeks or so then you are making it basically impossible for your body to establish a new baseline and settle in.

 

[Smokey]

Wow good to know about alcohol and the bloated face. Did not think 2 beers at night would affect the face. I do not change every 8-12 weeks but that is when I notice it starts to go down hill then a take another month or so and change it up

 

[Systemlord]

Did not think 2 beers at night would affect the face.

I remember a fellow from the UK who started TRT and couldn’t handle any alcohol afterward where beforeTRT he didn’t have any issues.

He would have a couple sips of alcohol and wake up with a horrible hangover lasting for days.

 

[Phil Goodman]

Wow good to know about alcohol and the bloated face. Did not think 2 beers at night would affect the face. I do not change every 8-12 weeks but that is when I notice it starts to go down hill then a take another month or so and change it up

You said you cycle HCG every 2-3 months, correct?