Nandrolone Experiences

[Rock H. Johnson]

The only constant in life is change, hence the fallacy of the ¨steady state¨

 

[Gman86]

That is correct, I am running those amounts. You are quoting @Gman86 regarding nandrolone and deca dick. While these hypotheses are interesting and on the surface seem logical, there is no hard evidence as to what actually causes deca dick. No studies, no doctors with anecdotal evidence, nothing. I agree with @Gman86's logic here, but again, what intuition and logic dictate as truth is not always true after scientific inquiry (which as of yet, there is no conclusive science on this).

I run my testosterone that high because I like the androgenic feeling of higher testosterone. I have lowered testosterone before and raised nandrolone, only to fall ill to its side effects that occur in me including head fog, diminished libido, short-term memory deficits, lethargy, depression, antisocial behavior. Upon cessation of the nandrolone, these side effects withdrew.

Don't fall victim to thinking there is a magical T:N ratio, optimal dosage, or nandrolone monotherapy that is going to work well for everyone or even as vast majority of guys. Everyone responds differently based on genetic factors, age, environmental factors, and lifestyle factors (genetic factors such as hepatic enzyme function being the most impactful here). I honestly don't like nandrolone and feel like crap if I take it for more than 6 weeks at a time. Some guys love it as monotherapy. Some guys feel good taking 300 test, 200 nandrolone, some hcg, and adex. Everyone is different.

So even taking deca at 50mg for more than 6 weeks causes issues? You can’t run the 50mg indefinitely without having issues?

when you lowered T, and raised N, what were your doses of both?

 

[DS3]

So even taking deca at 50mg for more than 6 weeks causes issues? You can’t run the 50mg indefinitely without having issues?

when you lowered T, and raised N, what were your doses of both?

When I lowered T it was to 200 mg per week and 100 mg per week of nandrolone. No estrogen issues on those dosages and assays confirmed a slight decrease in prolactin, so no issue there. I just simply didn't feel good.

Nandrolone just simply makes me feel lethargic and depressed with decreased cognitive function and overall decreased interest in goal-attainment, basically at any dosage if I run it for more than 6 weeks at a time.

I have read studies involving animal models wherein a significant reduction in dopaminergic neurons within the striatum was seen during nandrolone therapy, resulting in depressive-like behavior. I have also seen studies wherein a reduction in certain neurotransmitters (off my head I can't remember) were seen within the hippocampus of rats, resulting in reduced memory and cognitive function.

If you want to see the studies I can try to find them and post them.

 

[Gman86]

When I lowered T it was to 200 mg per week and 100 mg per week of nandrolone. No estrogen issues on those dosages and assays confirmed a slight decrease in prolactin, so no issue there. I just simply didn't feel good.

Nandrolone just simply makes me feel lethargic and depressed with decreased cognitive function and overall decreased interest in goal-attainment, basically at any dosage if I run it for more than 6 weeks at a time.

I have read studies involving animal models wherein a significant reduction in dopaminergic neurons within the striatum was seen during nandrolone therapy, resulting in depressive-like behavior. I have also seen studies wherein a reduction in certain neurotransmitters (off my head I can't remember) were seen within the hippocampus of rats, resulting in reduced memory and cognitive function.

If you want to see the studies I can try to find them and post them.

No need to find the studies. Appreciate the offer though. Any studies on nandrolone alone are pretty much useless. In most men, nandrolone alone, at low doses, will result in horrible side effects. This is due to low estrogen. As we all know, E2 is extremely important. If you notice, the side effects in studies taking nandrolone alone, will all mimic the side effects of ai studies.

Just to clarify, so when you lowered T, and raised N, and said you still didn’t feel good, your doses of both were 200mg of T, and 100mg of N? If that’s correct, then it’s obv why you would run into issues. Your T is way too high, while concurrently running deca. Deca sensitizes E2 and prolactin receptors. 200mg of test is going to raise E2 and prolactin significantly. So even if they look within range in the serum, your E2 and prolactin receptors could be reacting like you have much much higher levels, and causing issues. There also could be issues with having too much DHT and DHN in your system at one time.

The only thing I can see being an issue, for you, when running the 50mg of deca, is that your test dose is probably too high. Again, causing the same issues as above.

For you to successfully run deca indefinitely, for HRT purposes, you would most likely need to either lower your T dose, while taking a low dose of deca, or use nandrolone as your base, and use a small dose of HCG and/ or test to maintain healthy levels of E2.

 

[Cataceous]

... Deca sensitizes E2 and prolactin receptors. ...

I'd like to learn more about this. What are the sources of this information?

 

[DS3]

No need to find the studies. Appreciate the offer though. Any studies on nandrolone alone are pretty much useless. In most men, nandrolone alone, at low doses, will result in horrible side effects. This is due to low estrogen. As we all know, E2 is extremely important. If you notice, the side effects in studies taking nandrolone alone, will all mimic the side effects of ai studies.

Just to clarify, so when you lowered T, and raised N, and said you still didn’t feel good, your doses of both were 200mg of T, and 100mg of N? If that’s correct, then it’s obv why you would run into issues. Your T is way too high, while concurrently running deca. Deca sensitizes E2 and prolactin receptors. 200mg of test is going to raise E2 and prolactin significantly. So even if they look within range in the serum, your E2 and prolactin receptors could be reacting like you have much much higher levels, and causing issues. There also could be issues with having too much DHT and DHN in your system at one time.

The only thing I can see being an issue, for you, when running the 50mg of deca, is that your test dose is probably too high. Again, causing the same issues as above.

For you to successfully run deca indefinitely, for HRT purposes, you would most likely need to either lower your T dose, while taking a low dose of deca, or use nandrolone as your base, and use a small dose of HCG and/ or test to maintain healthy levels of E2.

@Gman86 Did you even read my message or just blow past it?

Test/Deca (200/100):
E2- 40 pg/dL
Prolactin- 9 ng/mL
TT- 531 ng/dL

Test Mono (200 mg):
E2- 48 pg/dL
Prolactin- 15 ng/mL
TT- 1200 ng/dL

Obviously Deca didn't sensitive my E2 and prolactin receptors and send them skyrocketing. The proof is in the numbers. Testosterone wasn't too high; my TT and E2 decreased while taking nandrolone.

You have a hypothesis that you've come onto this forum and touted as fact-based (by the manner in which you state it so boldly and finite, as if it has already been proven). It's an interesting hypothesis but does not stand to reason when put up against my test results. No major spike in E2 or prolactin.

Also, as I increased my Testosterone dosage to 75 mg EOD (262 mgs weekly) and decreased my nandrolone to 50 mg per week, I have felt much better than the previous 2:1 ratio. When I drop nandrolone altogether, these symptoms of depression and lethargy dimish all together.

 

[DS3]

No need to find the studies. Appreciate the offer though. Any studies on nandrolone alone are pretty much useless. In most men, nandrolone alone, at low doses, will result in horrible side effects. This is due to low estrogen. As we all know, E2 is extremely important. If you notice, the side effects in studies taking nandrolone alone, will all mimic the side effects of ai studies.

Just to clarify, so when you lowered T, and raised N, and said you still didn’t feel good, your doses of both were 200mg of T, and 100mg of N? If that’s correct, then it’s obv why you would run into issues. Your T is way too high, while concurrently running deca. Deca sensitizes E2 and prolactin receptors. 200mg of test is going to raise E2 and prolactin significantly. So even if they look within range in the serum, your E2 and prolactin receptors could be reacting like you have much much higher levels, and causing issues. There also could be issues with having too much DHT and DHN in your system at one time.

The only thing I can see being an issue, for you, when running the 50mg of deca, is that your test dose is probably too high. Again, causing the same issues as above.

For you to successfully run deca indefinitely, for HRT purposes, you would most likely need to either lower your T dose, while taking a low dose of deca, or use nandrolone as your base, and use a small dose of HCG and/ or test to maintain healthy levels of E2.

You do realize that anabolic steroids do cross the blood-brain barrier and have a direct effect on the central nervous system, including neuroanatomical structures that play a role in cognitive function and emotion, correct?

So not 'feeling' good from anabolic steroids, in a therapeutic setting or otherwise, includes both quantifiable measures such as TT, E2, prolactin, DHT, free T, SHBG, etc., as well as less quantifiable measures such as the effect an anabolic steroid has on an individuals cognitive performance and emotional well-being. The latter being much harder to control and less predictable than measuring and managing estrogen and prolactin.

The problem with this conversation is the use of a one-dimensional acceptance of what factors can impact 'feeling' good, versus a three-dimensional acceptance that what makes one 'feel' good or bad while on anabolics is more than quantifiable hormone levels.

 

[Gman86]

@Gman86 Did you even read my message or just blow past it?

Test/Deca (200/100):
E2- 40 pg/dL
Prolactin- 9 ng/mL
TT- 531 ng/dL

Test Mono (200 mg):
E2- 48 pg/dL
Prolactin- 15 ng/mL
TT- 1200 ng/dL

Obviously Deca didn't sensitive my E2 and prolactin receptors and send them skyrocketing. The proof is in the numbers. Testosterone wasn't too high; my TT and E2 decreased while taking nandrolone.

You have a hypothesis that you've come onto this forum and touted as fact-based (by the manner in which you state it so boldly and finite, as if it has already been proven). It's an interesting hypothesis but does not stand to reason when put up against my test results. No major spike in E2 or prolactin.

Also, as I increased my Testosterone dosage to 75 mg EOD (262 mgs weekly) and decreased my nandrolone to 50 mg per week, I have felt much better than the previous 2:1 ratio. When I drop nandrolone altogether, these symptoms of depression and lethargy dimish all together.

Deca sensitizes E2 and prolactin at the receptors, making whatever levels of each much more potent at the receptor level. Deca does not make E2 and/ or prolactin elevate in the serum.

obviously you’re going to feel better when you lowered your Deca down to 50mg/ week. There’s less Deca to cause issues with your high test dose. When using test as a base, and adding in some Deca, it’s going to be difficult to avoid issues. When using deca, the only sure way to avoid issues, is to use nandrolone as the base, and add in whatever T you need to optimize E2. Nandrolone as the base, will cover your androgen needs, and will still obv sensitize your E2 and prolactin receptors. But the nandrolone will convert extremely little into E2 and prolactin, so no issues there. DHN will cover all the same things that DHT would. You add in just enough test to raise E2 into a healthy range. The low dose of test will bump up prolactin a little, but not enough to cause any issues. So as you can see, it’s extremely easy to manage a protocol using nandrolone as the base, with T as an add-on. When using T as the base, and deca as an add-on, it’s very difficult to manage a protocol that can be run indefinitely


When running your 2:1 ratio of test to deca, your test dose is just way too high. It’s no surprise that you had issues on that protocol.

I’m not saying deca is amazing, and everyone should use it. I’m just simply trying to explain that once you understand how deca works, it’s easy to see that it’s not meant to be used as an add on. The pharmacokinetics of it make it ideal to use as a base, and make it an extremely poor compound to use as an add-on to a testosterone base. I’m not saying it can’t work for some. But I can’t think of a worse drug to mix with a high dose testosterone base.

 

[DS3]

Deca sensitizes E2 and prolactin at the receptors, making whatever levels of each much more potent at the receptor level. Deca does not make E2 and/ or prolactin elevate in the serum.

obviously you’re going to feel better when you lowered your Deca down to 50mg/ week. There’s less Deca to cause issues with your high test dose. When using test as a base, and adding in some Deca, it’s going to be difficult to avoid issues. When using deca, the only sure way to avoid issues, is to use nandrolone as the base, and add in whatever T you need to optimize E2. Nandrolone as the base, will cover your androgen needs, and will still obv sensitize your E2 and prolactin receptors. But the nandrolone will convert extremely little into E2 and prolactin, so no issues there. DHN will cover all the same things that DHT would. You add in just enough test to raise E2 into a healthy range. The low dose of test will bump up prolactin a little, but not enough to cause any issues. So as you can see, it’s extremely easy to manage a protocol using nandrolone as the base, with T as an add-on. When using T as the base, and deca as an add-on, it’s very difficult to manage a protocol that can be run indefinitely


When running your 2:1 ratio of test to deca, your test dose is just way too high. It’s no surprise that you had issues on that protocol.

I’m not saying deca is amazing, and everyone should use it. I’m just simply trying to explain that once you understand how deca works, it’s easy to see that it’s not meant to be used as an add on. The pharmacokinetics of it make it ideal to use as a base, and make it an extremely poor compound to use as an add-on to a testosterone base. I’m not saying it can’t work for some. But I can’t think of a worse drug to mix with a high dose testosterone base.

"Deca sensitizes E2 and prolactin at the receptors, making whatever levels of each much more potent at the receptor level. Deca does not make E2 and/ or prolactin elevate in the serum."

Source?

 

[DS3]

Deca sensitizes E2 and prolactin at the receptors, making whatever levels of each much more potent at the receptor level. Deca does not make E2 and/ or prolactin elevate in the serum.

obviously you’re going to feel better when you lowered your Deca down to 50mg/ week. There’s less Deca to cause issues with your high test dose. When using test as a base, and adding in some Deca, it’s going to be difficult to avoid issues. When using deca, the only sure way to avoid issues, is to use nandrolone as the base, and add in whatever T you need to optimize E2. Nandrolone as the base, will cover your androgen needs, and will still obv sensitize your E2 and prolactin receptors. But the nandrolone will convert extremely little into E2 and prolactin, so no issues there. DHN will cover all the same things that DHT would. You add in just enough test to raise E2 into a healthy range. The low dose of test will bump up prolactin a little, but not enough to cause any issues. So as you can see, it’s extremely easy to manage a protocol using nandrolone as the base, with T as an add-on. When using T as the base, and deca as an add-on, it’s very difficult to manage a protocol that can be run indefinitely


When running your 2:1 ratio of test to deca, your test dose is just way too high. It’s no surprise that you had issues on that protocol.

I’m not saying deca is amazing, and everyone should use it. I’m just simply trying to explain that once you understand how deca works, it’s easy to see that it’s not meant to be used as an add on. The pharmacokinetics of it make it ideal to use as a base, and make it an extremely poor compound to use as an add-on to a testosterone base. I’m not saying it can’t work for some. But I can’t think of a worse drug to mix with a high dose testosterone base.

On a side note, I appreciate you not smarting off in your response. I tend to be a dick sometime in my responses. Apologies.

 

[Gman86]

"Deca sensitizes E2 and prolactin at the receptors, making whatever levels of each much more potent at the receptor level. Deca does not make E2 and/ or prolactin elevate in the serum."

Source?

That’s Taeian Clark’s department. He’s like a mad scientist when it comes to nandrolone. He’s obsessed with the studies and researching it.

 

[Gman86]

On a side note, I appreciate you not smarting off in your response. I tend to be a dick sometime in my responses. Apologies.

Haha no need to apologize. Appreciate the gesture though, and it’s nice to see someone be able to recognize things like that in themselves. I’m obsessed with human psychology, and am always working on myself, in that regard. Understanding human psychology really allows for much more mature, and constructive, conversations on here. The psychological immaturity of some guys drives me legit insane! It’s like conversing with angry 4 year olds sometimes lol.

But I apologize as well. Don’t mean to come off as a “know it all” or an expert on nandrolone, by any means. Just simply offering my take on what could be causing your issues, based off of everything I’ve learned about nandrolone so far, and also trying to offer some solutions to increase your chances of success, in regards to using nandrolone in your protocol(s). Just like I don’t take anybody else’s word as gospel, definitely don’t take my word as gospel either. I personally think Taeian Clark knows his stuff, when it comes to nandrolone. I suggest researching him on your own, and making your own conclusions. I’ve also gained a TON of knowledge from a guy I’ve been messaging daily, that’s part of Taeian’s fb group, that is using deca as his base, with low dose test, and doing much better than he ever did on testosterone alone. He also reports following hundreds and hundreds of men having similar experiences. Obviously this isn’t scientific evidence, by any means, but there’s clearly great potential with nandrolone, in regards to HRT, imo. It’s just a matter of now figuring out scientifically, why it’s so effective. But anecdotally, the results seem nothing short of amazing, and very promising.

 

[Cataceous]

That’s Taeian Clark’s department. He’s like a mad scientist when it comes to nandrolone. He’s obsessed with the studies and researching it.

Some interesting statements/speculation about nandrolone here, including a few references. Related to estrogen is #7:

"Combination of testosterone and nandrolone = induction of 3b HSD subtype 1, which is involved in the conversion of E1 to E2, thereby testosterone synergises the estrogenic potency of nandrolone. moral of the story, dont run it with testosterone."

 

[Gman86]

Some interesting statements/speculation about nandrolone here, including a few references. Related to estrogen is #7:

"Combination of testosterone and nandrolone = induction of 3b HSD subtype 1, which is involved in the conversion of E1 to E2, thereby testosterone synergises the estrogenic potency of nandrolone. moral of the story, dont run it with testosterone."

Very interesting though. This says test synergises the estrogenic potency of nandrolone. I thought it was nandrolone that synergises the estrogenic potency of test.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Simplistic view, maybe, but it looks to me when on T:N just add some DHT(Proviron, Masteron) to the mix to keep the brain and dick stimulated.

 

[DS3]

Simplistic view, maybe, but it looks to me when on T:N just add some DHT(Proviron, Masteron) to the mix to keep the brain and dick stimulated.

I have Proviron on hand and have used it with my test and nandrolone protocol to see if it made a difference. The only thing it seems to do is drive down my estrogen and give me achy joints when I use it with the T & N combo. Libido actually decreases as does my hairline and skin quality.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

I only got achy knuckles after my 80 days test with Proviron. Achy joints, knuckles and being slightly emotional are my feedback signals to lower my Masteron dose as it indicates lowered E2 for me too. I also use DHEA to up the E2. Libido has never been an issue. I have not started the Nandrolone yet, but will start soon with 2:1.(so cannot comment based on personal experience)

 

[bixt]

That’s Taeian Clark’s department. He’s like a mad scientist when it comes to nandrolone. He’s obsessed with the studies and researching it.

I think Taeian is being interviewed on the 26th by a certain someone, and a lot of the questions will all be on this topic.

 

[Gman86]

Taeian has an upcoming interview on the TRT and hormone optimization YouTube channel. I just asked him this question on their fb page that he’s a part of. I’ll post his response if he gives one.

Taeian Clark Question. Was hoping you could quickly answer it here, or answer it in your upcoming interview.

A member of your fb group was telling me that when running Test and deca together, it can cause issues due to having too much DHN and DHT in your system at the same time. Obv there’s a few other factors that can make running too much T and N together problematic, but would you be able to expand on this idea, and why that causes issues?

He also mentioned that while running deca, it may not be a good idea to run any DHT derivatives, like anavar, Winstrol, primo, proviron and/ or masteron, again due to adding DHT while already having plenty of DHN in your system from the deca. Can you give your thoughts on whether you think using deca with a DHT derivative would be beneficial, or counterproductive? Maybe give the pros and cons. Thanks in advance!

 

[Gman86]

Simplistic view, maybe, but it looks to me when on T:N just add some DHT(Proviron, Masteron) to the mix to keep the brain and dick stimulated.

Why would a DHT derivative be needed to stimulate the brain and dick while on T and N already? What’s missing on a T and N combo?