My wellness journey

[sbell71]

I was fortunate to have my endo switch me over from the 4mg Androderm patch to 100mg Test cup weekly IM. I started back in January seeking treatment for all my symptoms. Oh and my last blood work on the patch...total T was 81? Just turned 46 but having been feeling completely run down for close to a year. So my question is about splitting up the dose to 50mg twice a week IM or switching to twice a week sub Q. I’m concerned about excess body fat and want to maximize the benefits while minimizing aromatization. Which protocol is regarded as the best option for those with a higher starting BF%? Thanks

 

[FeelingLost]

Welcome to the forum. So you know about body fat(esp belly fat) making extra E2?
More frequent shots hopefully reduce your E2 because your peak T on shot day is much less.
100mg is a pretty low dose. I hope your getting your E2 and prolactin checked regularly.

 

[Systemlord]

It would really help if you included your labs, your SHBG would be the best indicator to which protocol is best. Otherwise we're just guessing.

 

[sbell71]

Here are my labs, drawn 12hrs after last patch was applied.

Total T. 81 (249-836)
PSA. .37. <4.0
SHBG. 15 (17-56)
Free T. 2.3 (1.41-16.68)

CBC panel all within normal range

 

[madman]

Welcome to the forum. So you know about body fat(esp belly fat) making extra E2?
More frequent shots hopefully reduce your E2 because your peak T on shot day is much less.
100mg is a pretty low dose. I hope your getting your E2 and prolactin checked regularly.

100 mg is a common starting dose when using injectable as it is more sensible to start low and go slow to see how ones body responds to testosterone.

 

[Vince]

I would split the dose and inject every three and a half days. Sub-Q or IM, shouldn't really make a difference. Just see which one you prefer best.

 

[madman]

Here are my labs, drawn 12hrs after last patch was applied.

Total T. 81 (249-836)
PSA. .37. <4.0
SHBG. 15 (17-56)
Free T. 2.3 (1.41-16.68)

CBC panel all within normal range

How long were you on the patch and when did you switch protocol to injectable? Your shbg is low so you are going to be burning through (metabolizing) the testosterone a lot quicker than someone with shbg in the normal range. More frequent injections would be beneficial in your situation. You can start off by splitting weekly dosage (100mg) into 50mg every 3.5 days and have blood work done after 6 weeks to see how it affects your total/free t, estradiol numbers and if you notice any overall improvements in low t but depending on how you respond if you do not notice overall improvement in symptoms/blood work you may need to increase your injection frequency to EOD or daily and may possibly need a dose increase. As far as injecting im vs sub-q it should come down to personal preference and which method is the most comfortable for you as there will be no difference in the effectiveness of the absorption of testosterone. As far as body fat which contains the aromatase enzyme having a higher body fat percentage may make one more prone to excess e2 conversion but it is not a given as some lean individuals are genetically high aromatizers where as on the opposite end of the spectrum others are low aromatizers regardless of body fat levels. Higher doses of testosterone injected less frequently are more prone to spikes in e2 as oppose to smaller doses injected more frequently. Excess estradiol can be tricky as one will not know how they respond until they start a protocol and judge by symptoms/lab work.

 

[TheDude]

Here are my labs, drawn 12hrs after last patch was applied.

Total T. 81 (249-836)
PSA. .37. <4.0
SHBG. 15 (17-56)
Free T. 2.3 (1.41-16.68)

CBC panel all within normal range

I had a SHBG of 15 as well and was put on EOD injections.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember a post from Dr Saya or Chrilser stating that t cyp needs to be cleaved in the bloodstream into free T prior to conversion to estrogen, that it doesn't occur until the "man oil" has reached bloodstream, so subQ injection does not elevate estrogen by virtue of T cyp being injected into the fat.

If you're fat though, yes you tend to convert more to Estrogen.

And different guys do react differently to IM vs SubQ in a number of ways. Seems the biggest aversion to subQ is about lumps at inejection site, and for some, IM locations have pain for several days after injection.

 

[madman]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember a post from Dr Saya or Chrilser stating that t cyp needs to be cleaved in the bloodstream into free T prior to conversion to estrogen, that it doesn't occur until the "man oil" has reached bloodstream, so subQ injection does not elevate estrogen by virtue of T cyp being injected into the fat.

If you're fat though, yes you tend to convert more to Estrogen.

And different guys do react differently to IM vs SubQ in a number of ways. Seems the biggest aversion to subQ is about lumps at inejection site, and for some, IM locations have pain for several days after injection.

You are right regardless of whether the depot is injected im or sub-q the ester is not cleaved of until it enters the bloodstream than the testosterone is diffused rapidly.

 

[FeelingLost]

100 mg is a common starting dose when using injectable as it is more sensible to start low and go slow to see how ones body responds to testosterone.

Thanks for the correction Madman. It makes sense to start low and work up.

 

[Systemlord]

You need to inject at least EOD, your SHBG is low and you're passing most of your T into your urine. I recently switched from twice weekly to EOD and am already feeling a difference, my SHBG is a few points higher than yours.

 

[sbell71]

I was on the patch for 3 months, and my SHBG has been in the low range prior to beginning Treatment