My Experience On Jatenzo (Oral TRT) Log

[Mastodont]

I have a calcium deficiency! I have elevated parathyroid and calcium deficiency. I looked at the vitamin and minerals in red meat, ribeye steak has zero calcium and to meet my daily requirements for calcium, I would need to consume 9 hamburgers per day.

Facepalm!

Calcium is one reason i never jumped on the bandwagon. Raw milk would be ideal.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I have a calcium deficiency! I have elevated parathyroid and calcium deficiency. I looked at the vitamin and minerals in red meat, ribeye steak has zero calcium and to meet my daily requirements for calcium, I would need to consume 9 hamburgers per day.

Facepalm!

All meat contains calcium, or the animal would be dead, just like you would be without any calcium. If it's reported as zero in a ribeye steak it may not have been specifically tested.

I have never heard of someone on a carnivore diet suffering a calcium deficiency. Do you take proton pump inhibitors or other antacids?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

All meat contains calcium, or the animal would be dead, just like you would be without any calcium. If it's reported as zero in a ribeye steak it may not have been specifically tested.

I have never heard of someone on a carnivore diet suffering a calcium deficiency. Do you take proton pump inhibitors or other antacids?

I would think it's more about the amount of calcium being consumed, as well as bioavailability in relation to stomach acid. @Systemlord might require more calcium in his diet due to biochemical individuality(from the the book of the same name by the late Dr. Roger J. Williams, PhD/Nobel prize winner for discovering pantothenic acid, as well as folic acid). Or, just straight out supplement with calcium. The late Ray Peat had written about the subject.

 

[Systemlord]

I have never heard of someone on a carnivore diet suffering a calcium deficiency. Do you take proton pump inhibitors or other antacids?

I was unknowingly eating 4400 mg sodium per day for three weeks. I was eating 16 eggs per day along with a pound of bacon. This can cause you to not retain calcium and can actually cause a loss of calcium.

I would actually get symptoms of calcium deficiency right after eating six eggs and bacon. My sodium levels are low normal. The symptoms are subsiding after two days of supplement calcium.

I do feel strange every time I eat something, lightheaded, muscle cramps and spasms. The calcium is the only supplement that resolves these symptoms.

Now my parathyroid hormone levels are low normal after two days supplementing calcium.

 

[Systemlord]

As many of you know, I’m on the carnivore diet for ten months and these symptoms of sudden extreme fatigue come out of nowhere! I’ll be fine, very energetic and then suddenly, I’m brought to my knees.

I’m not eating a lot of pure fat, mostly hamburgers, red meat, some lean cuts, bacon, eggs probably not enough actual fat and the 100% lack of carbs has me wondering if my extreme exhaustion, abdominal cramping, symptoms are due to my bodies inability to create energy.

I thought this was iron deficiency, then calcium and while these supplements help, it only delays theses symptoms. When the symptoms are hard-core, I feel like I’m about ready have a heart attack and die.

The lightheadedness is first, especially right after eating. Supplementing the iron kind of helps, but at the same time it feels like iron isn’t the problem, because the iron causes another set of symptoms (huge glucose spikes) that mask the symptoms I’m currently dealing with.

The calcium deficiency was for real, but these symptoms persist, even with calcium supplementation. I can’t even supplement half of a capsule of iron without becoming incredibly weak and spiking my glucose. I felt my best with ferritin under 50, on the Jatenzo.

The iron spiking the glucose got me thinking, a glucose spike gives my body energy that it doesn’t have because I’m not getting enough fat, and as we all know zero carbs in the card of diet.

I believe to be the issue, lack of fat and carbs. I’m going to go to the market and ask if I can buy some pure fat cook it and eat it and see what happens. I might even go to the vitamin Shoppe and get some healthier version of protein bars with carbs in it and see what happens.

I went to the store and bought some steak along with 2 pounds of pure fat. I cooked and ate it and I seem to be coming out of the mental and physical exhaustion.

I felt better but not quite right. I bought some protein bars from the vitamin Shoppe with 26 g of carbs and eat it. My brain woke up and I have more mental and physical energy. I haven’t felt like this in 10 months.

I’m not so sure now about the carnivore diet. I’ll continue eating lots of red meat, but I’ll also be eating carbs as well.

 

[granger]

interesting in hong kong the time when they started eating alot of meat ie late 90s early 00s dementia has increased 5x....diseases of the heart had increased from 70-89 from then to 2021... food for thought! just learned this when we were discussing hong kongs 'freedom' from the brits in 1997.

glad you have decided to try out some carbs/fibre in your diet.. could be just having trouble expelling waste. when your body doesnt have EVERYTHING it needs easily available it messes with metabolic pathways often in unfavorable ways, just like lactic acid when you don't have enough 02/too much co2 as it is a shift in the pathway for energy but creates more "toxins"

 

[Systemlord]

interesting in hong kong the time when they started eating alot of meat ie late 90s early 00s dementia has increased 5x....diseases of the heart had increased from 70-89 from then to 2021... food for thought! just learned this when we were discussing hong kongs 'freedom' from the brits in 1997.

glad you have decided to try out some carbs/fibre in your diet.. could be just having trouble expelling waste. when your body doesnt have EVERYTHING it needs easily available it messes with metabolic pathways often in unfavorable ways, just like lactic acid when you don't have enough 02/too much co2 as it is a shift in the pathway for energy but creates more "toxins"

I just got back from urgent care, I have hypotension. The carnivore diet, the gym 7 days a week has paid off! The doctor doesn't believe I need blood pressure medicine any longer.

That still doesn't change how I felt today after adding carbs.

 

[granger]

yes BP meds have ED side effects aswell.. glad u dont need those meds!

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

As many of you know, I’m on the carnivore diet for ten months and these symptoms of sudden extreme fatigue come out of nowhere! I’ll be fine, very energetic and then suddenly, I’m brought to my knees.

I’m not eating a lot of pure fat, mostly hamburgers, red meat, some lean cuts, bacon, eggs probably not enough actual fat and the 100% lack of carbs has me wondering if my extreme exhaustion, abdominal cramping, symptoms are due to my bodies inability to create energy.

I thought this was iron deficiency, then calcium and while these supplements help, it only delays theses symptoms. When the symptoms are hard-core, I feel like I’m about ready have a heart attack and die.

The lightheadedness is first, especially right after eating. Supplementing the iron kind of helps, but at the same time it feels like iron isn’t the problem, because the iron causes another set of symptoms (huge glucose spikes) that mask the symptoms I’m currently dealing with.

The calcium deficiency was for real, but these symptoms persist, even with calcium supplementation. I can’t even supplement half of a capsule of iron without becoming incredibly weak and spiking my glucose. I felt my best with ferritin under 50, on the Jatenzo.

The iron spiking the glucose got me thinking, a glucose spike gives my body energy that it doesn’t have because I’m not getting enough fat, and as we all know zero carbs in the card of diet.

I believe to be the issue, lack of fat and carbs. I’m going to go to the market and ask if I can buy some pure fat cook it and eat it and see what happens. I might even go to the vitamin Shoppe and get some healthier version of protein bars with carbs in it and see what happens.

I went to the store and bought some steak along with 2 pounds of pure fat. I cooked and ate it and I seem to be coming out of the mental and physical exhaustion.

I felt better but not quite right. I bought some protein bars from the vitamin Shoppe with 26 g of carbs and eat it. My brain woke up and I have more mental and physical energy. I haven’t felt like this in 10 months.

I’m not so sure now about the carnivore diet. I’ll continue eating lots of red meat, but I’ll also be eating carbs as well.

You should check out Paul Saladino's animal based diet. I have long advocated the Perfect Health Diet by Paul Jaminet which is what many people (e.g. Saladino, Mercola and others) seem to finally be coming around to. Some people can do fairly well for a while on close to zero carbs but most people, especially active people, seem to do best in the 150-350 gram per day range, assuming you are fat adapted, which in your case you probably are. Low carbs can cause cortisol spikes in many people.

 

[Systemlord]

yes BP meds have ED side effects aswell.. glad u dont need those meds!

Here's what's going on, my blood pressure medicine is lowering my blood pressure too much now. I take my morning Jatenzo which also lowers my blood pressure even more, making me think I have low iron, (hypotension -> burning, prickling sensations, feeling faint) because taking iron when I don't need it, it increases my blood pressure treating the low blood pressure.

I take the iron and feel worse, weak and brain fog, but blood pressure is not low.

I think this is the whole reason why I thought I needed the iron on Jatenzo, to treat low blood pressure caused by the beta-blocker that I didn’t need. I could have come off the beta blocker the moment I started the Jatenzo.

Now comes my evening Jatenzo, the iron I didn't need causes high blood pressure as my testosterone spikes.

I experienced the low blood pressure two weeks off Jatenzo, which the iron treated and I had stated for some reason I still needed 5.5 capsules of iron off TRT.

When I don't take iron supplements, I can handle 5000-10,000 IU of vitamin D. My sensitivity to vitamin D comes when I supplementing large doses of iron.

Now if I supplement 10,000 IU D3, eating one hamburger has the same effect as taking an iron supplement, not good, as I become very sleepy and weak.

 

[Belekas]

You should check out Paul Saladino's animal based diet. I have long advocated the Perfect Health Diet by Paul Jaminet which is what many people (e.g. Saladino, Mercola and others) seem to finally be coming around to. Some people can do fairly well for a while on close to zero carbs but most people, especially active people, seem to do best in the 150-350 gram per day range, assuming you are fat adapted, which in your case you probably are. Low carbs can cause cortisol spikes in many people.

I'm a very active and an athlete. Well at least for the last close to 20 years. I tried Carnivore for 30 days but couldn't make it work( tried because digestive issues). Well it did work for digestion but 0 carbs, coupled with other sides I was having, made me feel like a complete hot pile of crap. Although I was on my TRT which had sides and making me feel like shit at the given time. So not the best time to try something new. I do a few days without much or any carbs and then have them as they help me to feel good, perform and have nutrients that I need. When you know how to do it, get pretty lean, have a solid base, muscles - carbs become a lot more fun, and the skin tearing pumps and fullness I get coupled with proper hydration is unmatched. So for me this is just another tool in my toolbox. What kind of carbs, when, how much, with what or alone, etc? These are the individual questions one needs to figure out for themselves.

 

[mc718]

Here's what's going on, my blood pressure medicine is lowering my blood pressure too much now. I take my morning Jatenzo which also lowers my blood pressure even more, making me think I have low iron, (hypotension -> burning and prickling sensations) because taking iron when I don't need it, it increases my blood pressure treating the low blood pressure.

I take the iron and feel worse, weak and brain fog, but blood pressure is not low.

I think this is the whole reason why I thought I needed the iron on Jatenzo, to treat low blood pressure caused by the beta-blocker that I didn’t need. I could have come off the beta blocker the moment I started the Jatenzo.

Now comes my evening Jatenzo, the iron I didn't need causes high blood pressure as my testosterone spikes.

I experienced the low blood pressure two weeks off Jatenzo, which the iron treated and I had stated for some reason I still needed 5.5 capsules of iron off TRT.

When I don't take iron supplements, I can handle 5000-10,000 IU of vitamin D. My sensitivity to vitamin D comes when I supplementing large doses of iron.

Just started following your journey very interesting! I am 47 years old have never been on trt but exploring the idea. Jatenzo was brought up last year but was crazy expensive. I am going to have bloodwork done again in a few weeks. My last tast monday was the lowest ever but might be due to covid , didn't know I was positive. I usually test around total T 500 on quest lcms..as low as 450, never over 505 the past 6 years...

 

[Systemlord]

I usually test around total T 500 on quest lcms..as low as 450, never over 505 the past 6 years...

Your hormones change everyday, lower one day, higher the next, than lower again. So changes in hormone levels doesn't mean anything actually changed hormonally. Biology doesn't do static unchanging hormone levels.

That doesn't even occur on TRT, hormone levels will still fluctuate and mileage may vary. Total T is important, but Free T is more important. Lab testing is only so accurate, plus or minus 70 ng/dL.

You can take the same sample of blood, split it into two and get two different results.

 

[mc718]

Your hormones change everyday, lower one day, higher the next, than lower again. So changes in hormone levels doesn't mean anything actually changed hormonally. Biology doesn't do static unchanging hormone levels.

That doesn't even occur on TRT, hormone levels will still fluctuate and mileage may vary. Total T is important, but Free T is more important. Lab testing is only so accurate, plus or minus 70 ng/dL.

You can take the same sample of blood, split it into two and get two different results.

Agree on free T. The urologist I went to in the past is big on free T and bioavalable T...will test in a few weeks to see where I am it.

 

[Systemlord]

I tapered off my beta-blocker in only two days, stopping abruptly causes insane blood pressure spikes, cutting down to 50% and then on day three stopping completely now blood pressure is 119/81 78 bpm.

I’m currently on zero medications, the Jatenzo being the only prescription. My hematocrit is 55% and hemoglobin 18.9.

 

[mc718]

I tapered off my beta-blocker in only two days, stopping abruptly causes insane blood pressure spikes, cutting down the 50% and then on day three stopping completely now blood pressure is 119/81 78 bpm.

I’m currently on zero medications, the Jatenzo being the only prescription. My hematocrit is 55% and hemoglobin 18.9.

Is your hematocrit considered high? You feel good on Jatenzo? How did you feel on a weekly shot of test cyp?

 

[Systemlord]

Is your hematocrit considered high?

This answer depends on who we are talking about, not everyone being created equal. My endo made the comment, "I don't know at what level of hematocrit is too high for you, but this is pretty high. We should at least monitor the hemoglobin levels going forward.

He mention he's not worried about the hematocrit, it's the hemoglobin levels that concern him. My endo actually spoke with a hematologist about my case due to the fact my endo had me phlebotomizing me every month and the hematologist was reviewing all the patients at the infusion center.

The hematologist warned him about phlebotomizing me every month for what are amazing blood pressure values 110/59, heart rate 62 bpm.

Excesses loss of blood can actually increase your risk of clotting, because dehydration may cause blood vessels to narrow and blood to thicken, raising the risk of blood clots, the very thing phlebotomizing was meant to prevent.

All of the medical literature looking at high hematocrit and hemoglobin is from the people with diseases that cause clotting. Most of these diseases increase both parameters and it's the disease process that causes the clotting, NOT the high hematocrit and hemoglobin values.

You feel good on Jatenzo?

After figuring out my protocol and discovering I was using huge iron doses to treat hypotension, things are starting to improve dramatically. Whenever I tried lowering the iron dosage, I would experience hypotension, symptoms are similar to my previous iron deficiency.

How did you feel on a weekly shot of test cyp?

Injections was never going to produce the results I'm getting now. I felt nothing on 1-2 times weekly injections, even with high testosterone values. I tried daily, EOD injections of small doses, these two protocols are the only ones where I felt great benefit, but was short-lived as the unnatural steady PK profiles crushed my ferritin levels and supplementing iron cause horrendous burning symptoms inside my body.

I felt like a God on 7 mg daily, but only for one week, but then the symptoms of iron deficiency and then those burning symptoms appear upon iron supplementation.

My body requires that the hormone levels rise and fall rapidly and frequent dosing.

 

[Systemlord]

OMG, since stopping the beta-blocker, I'm starting to feel the full effects of the TRT that have been hidden from me! I can feel the mental benefits, confidence surging within me.

Anyone that knew me prior to me stopping the beta-blocker are in for the shock of their lives. The beta-blocker blocked the full benefits of TRT.

The woman I'm currently courting won't know what hit her. She's been trying to artificially inflate her SMV to gain power over me, testing my congruence and confidence, she's in for a surprise!

 

[Systemlord]

The second day off my beta blocker I realize I’m taking too much vitamin D, 3000 units and even 1800 units is too much. After eating a steak I feel like I’ve taken an iron supplement, which means I’m absorbing way too much iron.

This did not occur when I was on the beta blocker.

I woke up this morning, feeling high and nauseated, too much iron absorption directly related too much vitamin D. I think 600 units is a safe bet because it worked before.

My erections last night were uncomfortably hard! I haven’t been that hard since 2015.

 

[Systemlord]

Introducing carbs into my diet was a mistake, at least that's what my body is telling me. Since consuming carbs a few days ago I now crave candy and garbage foods and now I must fight these cravings until I reset my body back on the pure carnivore diet.