Metformin and Testosterone

[tjlab]

I know several people that take this. Has this been a help with metabolic syndrome? Should I take the ER or immediate? I do not have diabetes but have high blood pressure, (132/81 avg) high triglycerides (150-170 dosing 4.8 grams fish oil), high cholesterol (220), non hdl and hdl slightly out of range. Glucose is good at 81 and a1c is 5.1. I go to doctor tomorrow and would like to discuss with him. Thanks and any suggestions would be great.

Meds I take-
Synthroid -75mcg
Test cyp - 120mg dosed twice weekly
Fish oil 4.8 grams daily
Zinc + copper once weekly
D3 50000iu once weekly
Selenium 200mg once weekly
Probiotics 3x weekly w/50 billion
Vitamin C 1-2 grams daily
Magnesium 200-400mg daily

 

[captain]

Your Blood pressure is normal. I think it's normal to 140/90 but check to make sure. I don't think they would put you on metformin. They would do a statin and that could make you a diabetic then give you the metformin. You would probably want the ER metformin if you was to get it. If your not on a low carb diet you could try it and it would probably correct the problems you posted.

 

[Leesto]

Metformin will lower your blood sugar levels but you are already plenty low. You could end up hypoglycemic so I doubt a Dr. would prescribe it for you given your low A1C and a fasting glucose level at 81 (I assume it was taken in a fasted state).

I take it regularly because I'm type II diabetic but even so I have occasionally had hypoglycemic incidents when I skipped a couple meals.

 

[Vince]

you should use ER
A new study explores anti-aging properties of metformin
A new study explores anti-aging properties of metformin

 

[Jinzang]

High blood pressure, high cholesterol, and type 2 diabetes are caused by poor diet and lack of exercise and should be treated by a high fiber diet of unrefined grains, vegetables and fruits, as in the McDougall Program.

 

[Vince]

High blood pressure, high cholesterol, and type 2 diabetes are caused by poor diet and lack of exercise and should be treated by a high fiber diet of unrefined grains, vegetables and fruits, as in the McDougall Program.

Jinzang, why do you believe that? Do you have a testimony you would like to share.

 

[DxHypo]

I have metabolic syndrome but my PCP wouldn't prescribe me metformin despite having impaired fasting glucose overnight (Dawn phenomenon) in the 120's. My A1C is good and my post prandial glucose is within normal range too but I just felt I needed to get the fasting glucose down. So I ordered some Glycomet 500 mg metformin from AllDayChemist on my own. Just started taking it within the last couple days so nothing to report yet.

 

[tjlab]

Yes jinzang I have heard of McDougall and the no fat program with grains and vegetables. That doesn't work for everyone because if it did everyone would be on that diet. I had a genetic test and I have a an apoe3/apoe4 defective/gene that my Dad passed to me and I am 100 percent prone to metabolic syndrome, cardiovascular disease and Alzheimer's. See link below. The doctor told me no fat from anything and I laughed! Vince does a super low carb diet with fats and I have seen that work well for many.

What APOE Means for Your Health | Cognitive Vitality | Alzheimer's Drug Discovery Foundation

APOE gene: MedlinePlus Genetics

 

[Jinzang]

Nathan Pritikin first pioneered the low fat, whole food, mostly vegetarian diet on the theory that Third World peoples eating a similar diet had very low rates of heart disease. Since then there's been a good deal of research on the diet. Dr. McDougall's study on all the patients attending his ten day program showed the attendees lost weight, reduced their cholesterol, blood pressure, and 90% either reduced or eliminated their blood pressure or diabetic medications. Dr. Greger bangs the drum for a similar diet on his nutritionfacts.org site and shows the evidence diet can control high blood pressure and diabetes.

The reason why these diets are not more widely used is, first, doctors are not educated in nutrition and its benefits and, second, compliance to the diet can be difficult. No one wants to give up their cheese steak sub and Coke.

 

[Leesto]

I have been a type II diabetic for 25 years. Have tried all the diets: Atkins, Pritikin, etc. I was vegetarian for 15 years and vegan for 5. I never wavered from the diet protocols when I was on them.

The only diet I have found which actually works for diabetes is the ketogenic diet.

 

[Jinzang]

Control of type two diabetes is a matter of maintaining a healthy weight, bmi < 25. Successful diet is not just a matter of physiology, it's also a matter of psychology and no diet will work unless you are able to adhere to it. Most people find the ketogenic diet is hard to adhere to long term. If you are one of the exceptions, congratulations. I personally enjoy eating starchy foods, so the McDougall diet has worked well for me in losing weight almost effortlessly. I have never had a problem with diabetes or high blood pressure, so I've got no testimony on that subject. I would advise anyone to eat more fruits and vegetables. I found doubling or tripling the amount I ate filled me up and made sticking to the diet easier.

 

[tjlab]

I totally understand what you are saying and I agree that diet can help, at some level, control blood pressure and diabetes. There are many factors that go into diabetes and blood pressure...stress, hormones and genetics that clearly predispose and accelerate the disease process. A cheese steak sub and coke once or twice a week will not make the majority of people have diabetes or high blood pressure, but for some it could help it a long because of genetics, hormones and stress levels. Many autoimmune diseases are linked to diabetes, high blood pressure and lipid issues. So, Dr. McDougall and others like him have made a lot of money selling books and theories that work for a lot of people, but definitely not all. I personally don't appreciate the content of anyone's statements when someone uses a "blanket one size fits all" theory to anything...because that statement, when it comes to health, is 100% not true. Like Leesto and Vince have stated the low carb diet has helped them with lipid and diabetes...this goes 100% against the McDougall diet. Just from 2 testimonies based off experience, the McDougall diet or any diet doesn't help everyone.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/genetics-type-2-diabetes-revealed-unprecedented-detail

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4191001/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3109701/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK174884/

Nathan Pritikin first pioneered the low fat, whole food, mostly vegetarian diet on the theory that Third World peoples eating a similar diet had very low rates of heart disease. Since then there's been a good deal of research on the diet. Dr. McDougall's study on all the patients attending his ten day program showed the attendees lost weight, reduced their cholesterol, blood pressure, and 90% either reduced or eliminated their blood pressure or diabetic medications. Dr. Greger bangs the drum for a similar diet on his nutritionfacts.org site and shows the evidence diet can control high blood pressure and diabetes.

The reason why these diets are not more widely used is, first, doctors are not educated in nutrition and its benefits and, second, compliance to the diet can be difficult. No one wants to give up their cheese steak sub and Coke.

 

[Leesto]

Agreed. Different diets suit different bodies and also different diets suit people with different mental attitudes toward eating and dieting.

Personally I find the ketogenic diet to be the only one which works for me to keep diabetes in check but I am an older male with a long history of diabetes and I happen to like most of the foods on the diet. I eat mostly for health and not primarily for satisfaction.

My wife is thin as can be with no symptoms of metabolic syndrome and yet she has a diet which includes a good bit of white bread and pasta and cake and chocolate. She chooses her foods for comfort and for taste.

 

[SoCal Guy]

New study in BMJ (The board won't let me link yet, but you can Google it if you want.)

Remission of pre-diabetes to normal glucose tolerance in obese adults with high protein versus high carbohydrate diet: randomized control trial

Results
After 6&#8197;months on the High Protein diet, 100% of the subjects had remission of their pre-diabetes to normal glucose tolerance, whereas only 33.3% of subjects on the High Carb diet had remission of their pre-diabetes. The HP diet group exhibited significant improvement in (1) insulin sensitivity (p=0.001), (2) cardiovascular risk factors (p=0.04), (3) inflammatory cytokines (p=0.001), (4) oxidative stress (p=0.001), (5) increased percent lean body mass (p=0.001) compared with the HC diet at 6&#8197;months.

The kicker: the "high protein" diet still contained 40% carbs, yet still resulted in 100% remission of pre-diabetes. (vs 55% carb in the high carb diet.)

 

[tjlab]

Hey Vince,

Doctor said no to Metformin since my glucose is 81 and A1C is around 5.1.

I will have new labs by next week. Thanks!

you should use ER
A new study explores anti-aging properties of metformin
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...y-explores-anti-aging-properties-of-metformin

 

[Leesto]

For those with higher blood sugar than tjlab who might need Metformin, there is a herb named Berberine which has performed similarly to Metformin in clinical studies. I take both Metformin and Berberine daily.

Berberine is Superior to Metformin

https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Berberine-Supplement-200-Serving/dp/B01AMPTXLE/ref=sr_1_2?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1480459874&sr=1-2-spons&keywords=berberine&psc=1&tag=ispabeyourbes

 

[Chivato]

For those who require it to maintain their A1C and their glucose levels within a healthy range, Metformin may be necessary, however everyone should be aware that one of the side affects is a reduction of Androgen levels which is not beneficial to those attempting to increase or maintain their Testosterone. Every medication comes with pros and cons.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Chivato: Men on TRT do not have to worry about Metformin's testosterone lowering effects. Good point, though.

 

[Vince]

For those who require it to maintain their A1C and their glucose levels within a healthy range, Metformin may be necessary, however everyone should be aware that one of the side affects is a reduction of Androgen levels which is not beneficial to those attempting to increase or maintain their Testosterone. Every medication comes with pros and cons.

That's really interesting, I looked it up, it looks like it true.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11707532

Full paper: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2001.90/full


"All patients and control subjects were placed on a hypocaloric diet (1200 to 1400 kcal/d) and metformin (Glucophage retard tab 850 mg; Ilsan Iltas Co., Istanbul, Turkey) twice daily for 3 months; they were on no other medication. "

 

[Nelson Vergel]

This one is also interesting for us on this site:

Testosterone Replacement Enhances the Effects of Metformin on Lipids and Inflammation

" After 12 weeks of metformin treatment (1.7&#8201;g daily), the participants were allocated to one of 2 groups treated for the following 12 weeks with oral testosterone undecanoate (120&#8201;mg daily, n=15) or not receiving androgen therapy (n=15)"


This one contradicts the one we are discussing:

Metformin improves semen and testosterone in men with metabolic syndrome

This is the protocol used :
"The protocol for the study was approved by the internal ethics committee. After we had obtained the patients' written informed consent, they received metformin for a period of 6 months. The dose was gradually increased from an initial daily dose of 850 mg/day (every lunch) for the first week, to 850 mg twice a day (every lunch and dinner) in the second week, to 850 mg three times a day (every breakfast, lunch, and dinner) for the rest of the treatment period."


And one related to TSH

Effect of metformin on thyroid stimulating hormone and thyroid volume in patients with prediabetes

"...we prescribed 500 mg of either metformin or placebo, with weekly increment of 1 tablet (500 mg) consequently to achieve the ultimate dose of 1500 mg in participants whom tolerate this dose-escalation protocol."

_________________________________

I take 500 mg twice per day. I may go up in dose soon (with the hope of more fat loss and no GI problems)


I have lost weight and do not feel as pumped since starting Metformin three months ago. I will see if I stay on it or not in the long term.