Low Testosterone Discussion

[Hoss91]

There is no cure for the Ehler-Danlos. I am lucky in that regard (so it seems, but I still need to determine the type). It is the classical kind, without the heart problems or joint dislocation or the other deadly side effects (although I do have an enlarged right heart ventricle, and very elastic skin). My hypermobility is not that remarkable either. Genetic testing is very limited, and was told to check back annually. I am not too concerned about that to be honest. More concerned with the lack of sleep quality, the brain fog, the "dysthmia" and "ADHD" (which I have been diagnosed in September as well) that has been present for as long as I can remember. The ADHD medication since September (tried different types and doses) appear to be ineffective (or very minimal at best) too.

Looking back on my development and how I am presently, ADHD most certainly fits. It was something I always wondered, but thought "meh, it's who I am". But I most likely had low testosterone my whole life too, so it's a confounding variable, as low testosterone impact memory, attention, concentration, and causes "brain fog". (unless I am mistaken).

What are the symptoms of low E2?

/end of more personal story

 

[CoastWatcher]

There is no cure for the Ehler-Danlos. I am lucky in that regard (so it seems, but I still need to determine the type). It is the classical kind, without the heart problems or joint dislocation or the other deadly side effects (although I do have an enlarged right heart ventricle, and very elastic skin). My hypermobility is not that remarkable either. Genetic testing is very limited, and was told to check back annually. I am not too concerned about that to be honest. More concerned with the lack of sleep quality, the brain fog, the "dysthmia" and "ADHD" (which I have been diagnosed in September as well) that has been present for as long as I can remember. The ADHD medication since September (tried different types and doses) appear to be ineffective (or very minimal at best) too.

Looking back on my development and how I am presently, ADHD most certainly fits. It was something I always wondered, but thought "meh, it's who I am". But I most likely had low testosterone my whole life too, so it's a confounding variable, as low testosterone impact memory, attention, concentration, and causes "brain fog". (unless I am mistaken).

What are the symptoms of low E2?

/end of more personal story

I'd be surprised if you didn't have low estradiol. Anhedonia, joint problems (clicks and pops, aches and pains), poor sexual function, excessive thirst, frequent urination...not a pretty scenario. In fact, though many men coming to TRT have an almost pathological fear of elevated estradiol, and nobody is saying elevated levels should be ignored, low levels of e2 can be just as miserable (if not more uncomfortable). Dr. Rotman, a urologist and a member here at EM, just posted a response in which he indicated that in his practice he worries as much, if not more, about low e2 levels as he does rising values.

 

[Hoss91]

I'd be surprised if you didn't have low estradiol. Anhedonia, joint problems (clicks and pops, aches and pains), poor sexual function, excessive thirst, frequent urination...not a pretty scenario. In fact, though many men coming to TRT have an almost pathological fear of elevated estradiol, and nobody is saying elevated levels should be ignored, low levels of e2 can be just as miserable (if not more uncomfortable). Dr. Rotman, a urologist and a member here at EM, just posted a response in which he indicated that in his practice he worries as much, if not more, about low e2 levels as he does rising values.

I do urinate a lot. But it's more to split my day working at a cubicle if anything (sad, I know ). Knees, joints, have always popped even as a kid. Could be, and more than likely, due to EDS.

I am excited that if this low testosterone was not a fluke, then I will receive treatment. It sucks that my next appointment is February 23rd, and that I feel like crap everyday.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I do urinate a lot. But it's more to split my day working at a cubicle if anything (sad, I know ). Knees, joints, have always popped even as a kid. Could be, and more than likely, due to EDS.

I am excited that if this low testosterone was not a fluke, then I will receive treatment. It sucks that my next appointment is February 23rd, and that I feel like crap everyday.

You have every reason to be hopeful. Patience is a key element of any successful TRT protocol. Hang on...

 

[Hoss91]

You have every reason to be hopeful. Patience is a key element of any successful TRT protocol. Hang on...

Yes, that is true. I hope this is the cause of my many frustrations. This terrible memory, lack of focus, brain fog, terrible sleep, and lack of muscle/strength, etc will be solved. I don't know about your story, but this has been going on since I was 13, 14.

I am concerned that if my 394 ng/dl was "normal", then it leads me to think low testosterone is not the issue, and it's really just how I am.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Yes, that is true. I hope this is the cause of my many frustrations. This terrible memory, lack of focus, brain fog, terrible sleep, and lack of muscle/strength, etc will be solved. I don't know about your story, but this has been going on since I was 13, 14.

I am concerned that if my 394 ng/dl was "normal", then it leads me to think low testosterone is not the issue, and it's really just how I am.

If your doctor tells you the level you quote is "normal," you need to seek care elsewhere. But your post indicated there was agreement that you were hypogonadal; the question now is primary/secondary, after which treatment, initially topical, will begin. Did I misunderstand your post?

 

[Hoss91]

No, you understood correctly. And she hinted that if I have a lot of the same symptoms despite having the 394 ng/dl levels, then it's possible they're not high enough, and treatment would continue.

But I am concerned that because she has this view that those levels were normal, she will say "your cognitive, "dysthymia", and lack of muscle and strength building issues are not testosterone related. It's a different problem, see you later". If that is the case, it's as you said, go seek care elsewhere (i.e., your referral).

I forgot to add: she also said that I should look into freezing my sperm because she does not bank on the fact that once someone goes off of TRT, the person may become fertile again. I agree with her - why take the risk? So I'd have to look into that too.

 

[CoastWatcher]

You are understandably anxious. One step at a time may not be what you want hear, but it's the best way to proceed. You have no reason to believe that treatment will be denied. If it is, even here in Canada, there are other doctors. Don't complicate things at this point - or stress yourself without cause. As for fertility, hcg should allow you to maintain vital sperm. That said, preserving sperm now would be prudent.

 

[Hoss91]

You are understandably anxious. One step at a time may not be what you want hear, but it's the best way to proceed. You have no reason to believe that treatment will be denied. If it is, even here in Canada, there are other doctors. Don't complicate things at this point - or stress yourself without cause. As for fertility, hcg should allow you to maintain vital sperm. That said, preserving sperm now would be prudent.

Yes. Thanks.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I'm sure that, having felt miserable for a long time, the wait must be awfully difficult. You are on the right track.

 

[Hoss91]

I'm sure that, having felt miserable for a long time, the wait must be awfully difficult. You are on the right track.

I hope so. Were you in a similar situation?

 

[CoastWatcher]

I hope so. Were you in a similar situation?

Worse. The initial doctor I saw holds an endowed chair in the endocrinology division at a local medical school. Excellent credentials, I believed. He prescribed a terrible protocol thst left me feeling worse than when I first saw him. I found this site, learned I had to be my own advocate, located a doctor who knows what she is doing (and comfirmed that by traveling to the States and speaking to a highly qualified TRT specialist), and got sorted out.

 

[Hoss91]

Worse. The initial doctor I saw holds an endowed chair in the endocrinology division at a local medical school. Excellent credentials, I believed. He prescribed a terrible protocol thst left me feeling worse than when I first saw him. I found this site, learned I had to be my own advocate, located a doctor who knows what she is doing (and comfirmed that by traveling to the States and speaking to a highly qualified TRT specialist), and got sorted out.

Oh sorry - I meant symptom wise. Pre-TRT for x years you felt x,y,z. Post-TRT for x years you feel aa, bb, cc.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Oh sorry - I meant symptom wise. Pre-TRT for x years you felt x,y,z. Post-TRT for x years you feel aa, bb, cc.

Was told my issues were either depression or anxiety. Was told I was dealing with the death of people close to me. Had to beg for a testosterone level to be checked - this all went on for at least three years of acute suffering. I realize now that my levels started declining about four years before that. I had been losing interest in things, and saw a sharp decline in sexual interest, but wondered if it was advancing age. I didn't push for a diagnosis for far too long. I had osteopenia, bone loss, due to low estradiol, and - to this day - am reminded of that when I walk. I had become an old man.

Topical testosterone was an absolute bust in my case. It only dried up what little natural production my body still was capable of (all exogenous testosterone does that, no surprise), without raising my levels to a therapeutic range. The inept doctor kept telling me to up the dose...every morning I coated my shoulder with gel and felt no better. I know I was an old man.

Skip ahead, I found my current doctor, verified I knew what she was doing here on EM and through consultations in the US, and within seven months began feeling better than I had in years. I do feel good, very good. I inject 16mg of testosterone every morning, have supported that with HCG, and never needed Anastrozole to manage my estradiol (daily, small injections dealt with that challenge). Consistent erectile function was the last thing to be restored, and I do take daily Cialis, but I'm happy with how I feel in that regard. I take a few supplements (COQ10, NAC, Berberine, Vitamin D).

I beleive that that for most men who have confirmed levels of low testosterone, it is possible to find renewed health and happiness via TRT. I admit that not all who try TRT find success. Most who don't are undone by awful, doomed-to-fail protocols. Some, though, simply don't, even with restored levels, feel better. ERO, a good friend here on Excelmale is a patient of one of the leading TRT doctors in the States, and is frustrated by lack of progress. For others, it gives you back a life.

 

[Hoss91]

Was told my issues were either depression or anxiety. Was told I was dealing with the death of people close to me. Had to beg for a testosterone level to be checked - this all went on for at least three years of acute suffering. I realize now that my levels started declining about four years before that. I had been losing interest in things, and saw a sharp decline in sexual interest, but wondered if it was advancing age. I didn't push for a diagnosis for far too long. I had osteopenia, bone loss, due to low estradiol, and - to this day - am reminded of that when I walk. I had become an old man.

Topical testosterone was an absolute bust in my case. It only dried up what little natural production my body still was capable of (all exogenous testosterone does that, no surprise), without raising my levels to a therapeutic range. The inept doctor kept telling me to up the dose...every morning I coated my shoulder with gel and felt no better. I know I was an old man.

Skip ahead, I found my current doctor, verified I knew what she was doing here on EM and through consultations in the US, and within seven months began feeling better than I had in years. I do feel good, very good. I inject 16mg of testosterone every morning, have supported that with HCG, and never needed Anastrozole to manage my estradiol (daily, small injections dealt with that challenge). Consistent erectile function was the last thing to be restored, and I do take daily Cialis, but I'm happy with how I feel in that regard. I take a few supplements (COQ10, NAC, Berberine, Vitamin D).

I beleive that that for most men who have confirmed levels of low testosterone, it is possible to find renewed health and happiness via TRT. I admit that not all who try TRT find success. Most who don't are undone by awful, doomed-to-fail protocols. Some, though, simply don't,me EM with restored levels, feel better. ERO, a good friend here on Excelmale is a patient of one of the leading TRT doctors in the States, and is frustrated by lack of progress. For others, it gives you back a life.

Thank you for sharing.

Much of what you outlined in paragraph 1 is what I had/am experiencing. I hope I am not expecting a miracle with TRT. I guess I will find out.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Thank you for sharing.

Much of what you outlined in paragraph 1 is what I had/am experiencing. I hope I am not expecting a miracle with TRT. I guess I will find out.

As I've noted, you have every reason to be hopeful.

 

[Hoss91]

As I've noted, you have every reason to be hopeful.

Here are the results of my 8AM blood test. I guess I don't have low testosterone?

 

[johndoesmith]

Here are the results of my 8AM blood test. I guess I don't have low testosterone?

Remind me again if these are natty or on clomid?

If you're still having symptoms, then I'd attribute it to your low E2.

66pmol/l = 15pg/ml

That being a standard E2 test, it's probably lower than that, and even 15pg/ml is associated with negative outcomes and higher risk of osteoporosis, as well as feeling like shit.

 

[Hoss91]

Remind me again if these are natty or on clomid?

If you're still having symptoms, then I'd attribute it to your low E2.

66pmol/l = 15pg/ml

That being a standard E2 test, it's probably lower than that, and even 15pg/ml is associated with negative outcomes and higher risk of osteoporosis, as well as feeling like shit.

Natural.

I am probably going to have to find a new endocrinologist because I am almost certain that when I have my follow-up, she will probably neglect the E2 levels because she said my first test was normal. Can low E2 cause a lack of muscle and more importantly strength? Poor sleep quality? Brain fog, memory problems, cognitive issues?


Edit: I am curious why LH is high.

 

[johndoesmith]

Natural.

I am probably going to have to find a new endocrinologist because I am almost certain that when I have my follow-up, she will probably neglect the E2 levels because she said my first test was normal. Can low E2 cause a lack of muscle and more importantly strength? Poor sleep quality? Brain fog, memory problems, cognitive issues?


Edit: I am curious why LH is high.

It will probably cause everything except for the muscle issues to my understanding. I guess it could cause those indirectly.

LH is high because E2 is low, your body wants more E2 and test, but you're at your limit of production.