Low Dopamine and ADHD while on TRT

[greenwaters]

Ive been circling around this for a while now. When I started(2020) TRT it was remarkable. I could inject 200mg a week. Sometimes 250-300 a week. Last year it all started spiraling down hill. I didnt notice that it was the trt, so I changed up numerous other things I was doing. Sex drive went down, soft erections. However, when I stopped injecting for over a week, erections came back, my mind was clear, and I could focus and be normal. However, lack of strength kept me from the gym due to no injections.

I thought estrogen, but estrogen was fine every time it was tested. So i lowered my dosage from 125 once a week, to 100, and not Im at 60mg, cause this is the level that helps me stay focus, and I have a job where I need to concentrate and be focus. My reason for TRT is I have a pitutary tumor, which also affects dopamine. My concentration had been so bad, I was diagnosed with ADHD a few weeks ago, which came as no surprise since I was diagnosed as a child, but my parents never put me on meds. I somehow have been managing it, and TRT i believe has brought it back with a vengeance. My question is what can I do?

I want my dosage back up because I was building muscle, and at 60mg, im just stuck not building anything. Im going back on cabergoline as well, since its a dopamine against. It's no doubt that trt has increased dopamine disruption in my system, and now I'm on day 6 no testosterone, and i feel wonderful. I wrote this in like 20 seconds, where it would have taken me a couple of hours to write this, and I probably would never respond. Just curious has anyone had this issue or knows anyone with a similar situation?

 

[literally.me]

LOL another one. And people still deny it......

 

[literally.me]

I am searching a lot and I'm almost betting it's the estrogen despite being at normal levels on bloodwork it is still affecting our libido and erections and also making us nervous, anxious, with insonia or agressive. This is all high estrogen sides effects, not low estrogen or low testosterone or whatever. It is estrogen for some reason I still can't explain but lots of guys on TRT are now experiencing it (me included). This is why using arimidex or stoping for a week plus the side effects subside.

 

[Gman86]

I am searching a lot and I'm almost betting it's the estrogen despite being at normal levels on bloodwork it is still affecting our libido and erections and also making us nervous, anxious, with insonia or agressive. This is all high estrogen sides effects, not low estrogen or low testosterone or whatever. It is estrogen for some reason I still can't explain but lots of guys on TRT are now experiencing it (me included). This is why using arimidex or stoping for a week plus the side effects subside.

So using an ai resolved the issue for u, or at least improved the way u felt?

 

[Systemlord]

LOL another one. And people still deny it......

There was a member that suffered low libido and ED for more than a decade, it came and went with stopping TRT, restarting TRT, once levels stabilized, he lost his libido and got ED.

Twelve years later he found out 50 mg weekly cured everything.

It’s a trap, if a little T makes me feel good, more is better…

Sadly this is not always the case for everyone.

 

[Gman86]

There was a member that suffered low libido and ED for more than a decade, it came and went with stopping TRT, restarting TRT, once levels stabilized, he lost his libido and got ED.

Twelve years later he found out 50 mg weekly cured everything.

It’s a trap, if a little T makes me feel good, more is better…

Sadly this is not always the case for everyone.

I do however wonder if someone using very low dosages could get similar results by using a higher dosage whilst concurrently controlling downstream metabolites, such as E2, prolactin and DHT. Mainly E2 and prolactin, as I would imagine that DHT shouldn’t cause much of an issue in the libido/ ED department

Even when guys say that their E2 is in range when they don’t feel good on slightly higher dosages, I’m still a little skeptical, only because what we test is the excess amount of E2 in our bloodstream, and not the levels that are in our tissues and brain. Which is why the trial and error approach, while observing symptoms, and not just the excess level in our bloodstream at the time of testing, can sometimes be a more efficacious approach. The E2 level in our blood also tells us nothing about how sensitive or not sensitive that person’s E2 receptors are to the E2 in their system. For example, when nandrolone is in the mix, it not only can increase the conversion rate of testosterone into E2, but it also makes E2 receptors more sensitive, and the E2 currently in the system can feel more potent. I believe it increases estrogen receptor sensitivity due to its progestin properties

So I’m jc if that member that lowered his dose down to 50mg/ week, could do just as well with say 100mg of test per week, and something like 50mg/ week of primobolan, or 12.5mg/ day of Proviron. I know these compounds aren’t legal to prescribe in most places, but they’re just my personal preferred methods to control metabolites such as E2 and prolactin. I used AI’s for years, off and on, and I feel like it’s much easier to dial in the controlling of metabolites on these compounds, vs trying to dial them in with AI’s.

Im obv an n of 1, but I use pretty hefty dosages for my HRT, as everyone knows by now lol, and that includes low dose primo to control E2 and prolactin, and I’ve been doing this type of protocol for a couple years now, and me and my girl have been doing it twice a day lately. But on average once a day. I could easily do it twice a day everyday if it was just up to me. I’m not like super horny all day, but when im around her and I start thinking about it, libido kicks into high gear. And erections have always been really good on HRT. Sometimes better than other times, but currently they‘ve been solid and I can stay erect for as long as I want to. Not sure if I would be doing this well sexually if it weren’t for me controlling E2 and prolactin with low dose primo

 

[t_spacemonkey]

the TRT/muscle building study (i don't recall source) where they divided people between 50-600mg, found that hose on 50 lost muscle compared to the placebo group (natural).
50 would be below a normal natural level it seems, at that level i would aim to get of TRT and restart natural production. but if thats where you feel good, so be it. i feel great on 200-300mg. i don't care if its not natural or people call it not TRT.
if you can't go above low doses, and want to build muscle, another thing worth trying might be nandrolone to add. adding nandrolone to my TRT did not give me any mental side effects, but unfortunately have me some sexual issues (not ED, but much delayed orgasm/sensitivity)
if you got any cancerous tumor, i would look into oxidation therapies (like chlorine dioxide), DMSO, fenbendazole, and any other alternative therapies you can find and people had success with.

 

[literally.me]

So using an ai resolved the issue for u, or at least improved the way u felt?

It does improve! As soon I inject testosterone my libido disapear and I start to feel anxiety, agressiveness and insonia. I discovered Arimidex could help reading at Reddit and bought it and let in my house. One time, on a testosterone injection day, I was as always, feeling so warm and anxious laying in my bed that I took 0.5mg of Arimidex and minutes later I was able to sleep. Since then I realize every time I feel like this is a sign that my estrogen is untolerable to my body. This explain why when I go off for a week plus I feel normal again. My estrogen goes down along the testosterone.

I still don't know how to stay on TRT without using AI's and suffering with this. If I inject 200mg+ like guy above abusing it says I would go crazy.

 

[literally.me]

@Systemlord but what is the explanation for his case? He is better now at 50mg / weekly?

 

[Systemlord]

@Systemlord but what is the explanation for his case? He is better now at 50mg / weekly?

That’s right, 12 years of fiddling with his protocols, injection frequencies. He was on 60 mg once weekly, was so close to his optimal dosage, so close for so long.

@sh1973 is on 50 mg once weekly. The real sh**kicker is he has high SHBG!

I believe a good number of these men that come to ExcelMale with problems are actually overdosed, which can take several months and a couple of years for the rubber band to snap.

Yes, been at 60mg for a couple years now with nothing else and feel better than I ever did with higher doses.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

It does improve! As soon I inject testosterone my libido disapear and I start to feel anxiety, agressiveness and insonia. I discovered Arimidex could help reading at Reddit and bought it and let in my house. One time, on a testosterone injection day, I was as always, feeling so warm and anxious laying in my bed that I took 0.5mg of Arimidex and minutes later I was able to sleep. Since then I realize every time I feel like this is a sign that my estrogen is untolerable to my body. This explain why when I go off for a week plus I feel normal again. My estrogen goes down along the testosterone.

I still don't know how to stay on TRT without using AI's and suffering with this. If I inject 200mg+ like guy above abusing it says I would go crazy.

Arimidex takes up tob24h to work. it only block new conversions. if it worked within 30min it is all mental. it would do absolutely nothing for e2 in that timeframe. barely reach your bloodstream

 

[bixt]

Ive been circling around this for a while now. When I started(2020) TRT it was remarkable. I could inject 200mg a week. Sometimes 250-300 a week. Last year it all started spiraling down hill. I didnt notice that it was the trt, so I changed up numerous other things I was doing. Sex drive went down, soft erections. However, when I stopped injecting for over a week, erections came back, my mind was clear, and I could focus and be normal. However, lack of strength kept me from the gym due to no injections.

Go snort a couple lines of coke everyday to self medicate your adhd and see how it slowly but surely stops working. Take a nice few weeks break, and like magic it works again. (Just an analogy, don't actually do this...).


Now, TRT high dose does the same thing. Spikes up T and also dopamine. You get nice and high 24/7 for a few days or weeks, and then guess what? Just like coke, you gonna crash. ADHD, weak will, low self esteem, low libido, low erection, low strength in gym, low everything will come back. Receptors are cooked while D levels are still high.

Just like you gotta get off the coke to resensitise your brain receptors, you gotta get off the high levels of T (which are causing high levels of D).

Solution? Alternate the dose!! Some weeks high (200mg), some weeks low (50mg), another week nothing. Or 10mg daily (prop) for weeks followed by 30mg daily (prop) for weeks. Or huge, large infrequent injections E2W or E3W. Pellets. Nebido taken per the leaflet. So many other options use your imagination and what's available to you. Avoid stable (high) levels bullshit at all costs.

Take your pick.

Variation is the name of the game.

You can't have EVERYTHING! Get with the highs and the lows and appreciate it all.


(and yeah, you will have to plan your training schedule to match the highs and lows. Go all out in the high T level times and take a break and do light cardio in the lows. Periodise the training. Thanks @madman for this idea you gave me in another post!! Appreciate it.).


Cue tons of flack for what I just said but IDK, many can be helped and get something instead of nothing.

 

[camygod]

I do however wonder if someone using very low dosages could get similar results by using a higher dosage whilst concurrently controlling downstream metabolites, such as E2, prolactin and DHT. Mainly E2 and prolactin, as I would imagine that DHT shouldn’t cause much of an issue in the libido/ ED department

Even when guys say that their E2 is in range when they don’t feel good on slightly higher dosages, I’m still a little skeptical, only because what we test is the excess amount of E2 in our bloodstream, and not the levels that are in our tissues and brain. Which is why the trial and error approach, while observing symptoms, and not just the excess level in our bloodstream at the time of testing, can sometimes be a more efficacious approach. The E2 level in our blood also tells us nothing about how sensitive or not sensitive that person’s E2 receptors are to the E2 in their system. For example, when nandrolone is in the mix, it not only can increase the conversion rate of testosterone into E2, but it also makes E2 receptors more sensitive, and the E2 currently in the system can feel more potent. I believe it increases estrogen receptor sensitivity due to its progestin properties

So I’m jc if that member that lowered his dose down to 50mg/ week, could do just as well with say 100mg of test per week, and something like 50mg/ week of primobolan, or 12.5mg/ day of Proviron. I know these compounds aren’t legal to prescribe in most places, but they’re just my personal preferred methods to control metabolites such as E2 and prolactin. I used AI’s for years, off and on, and I feel like it’s much easier to dial in the controlling of metabolites on these compounds, vs trying to dial them in with AI’s.

Im obv an n of 1, but I use pretty hefty dosages for my HRT, as everyone knows by now lol, and that includes low dose primo to control E2 and prolactin, and I’ve been doing this type of protocol for a couple years now, and me and my girl have been doing it twice a day lately. But on average once a day. I could easily do it twice a day everyday if it was just up to me. I’m not like super horny all day, but when im around her and I start thinking about it, libido kicks into high gear. And erections have always been really good on HRT. Sometimes better than other times, but currently they‘ve been solid and I can stay erect for as long as I want to. Not sure if I would be doing this well sexually if it weren’t for me controlling E2 and prolactin with low dose primo

What dose of primo do you use ?

 

[Mastodont]

Go snort a couple lines of coke everyday to self medicate your adhd and see how it slowly but surely stops working. Take a nice few weeks break, and like magic it works again. (Just an analogy, don't actually do this...).


Now, TRT high dose does the same thing. Spikes up T and also dopamine. You get nice and high 24/7 for a few days or weeks, and then guess what? Just like coke, you gonna crash. ADHD, weak will, low self esteem, low libido, low erection, low strength in gym, low everything will come back. Receptors are cooked while D levels are still high.

Just like you gotta get off the coke to resensitise your brain receptors, you gotta get off the high levels of T (which are causing high levels of D).

Solution? Alternate the dose!! Some weeks high (200mg), some weeks low (50mg), another week nothing. Or 10mg daily (prop) for weeks followed by 30mg daily (prop) for weeks. Or huge, large infrequent injections E2W or E3W. Pellets. Nebido taken per the leaflet. So many other options use your imagination and what's available to you. Avoid stable (high) levels bullshit at all costs.

Take your pick.

Variation is the name of the game.

You can't have EVERYTHING! Get with the highs and the lows and appreciate it all.


(and yeah, you will have to plan your training schedule to match the highs and lows. Go all out in the high T level times and take a break and do light cardio in the lows. Periodise the training. Thanks @madman for this idea you gave me in another post!! Appreciate it.).


Cue tons of flack for what I just said but IDK, many can be helped and get something instead of nothing.

The only problem is, for some the constantly changing t/e ratio affects mood too much. On paper sustanon taken every 2 weeks would take care of everything you just said, no day will be the same, there are highs and lows, many report best libido around 10 days after injection, estrogen has come down by then. I would probably be doing it if my mood did not crash at days 3-4 when the propionates and or benzyl alcohol are cleared.

 

[literally.me]

Arimidex takes up tob24h to work. it only block new conversions. if it worked within 30min it is all mental. it would do absolutely nothing for e2 in that timeframe. barely reach your bloodstream

This is bullshit. Half life is not equal to effects of meds. Do you take an aspirin and wait 6 hours to work or after 6 hours is when you have to take another one for your headache because the half life? Drugs don't work like that. We are talking about pharmacocinetcs not talking like GYM bro-lore from forums that , for example, say "you need to wait 6 weeks to feel testosterone" (aka starts to gain ttemendous weight and bloat). I can garantee you that after taking Arimidex and shuting down my estrogen I can resolve my ED, anxiety, agressiveness and insonia and you say it's mental? So explain why I need to pop an AI, which dropsy estrogen when I am feeling high estrogen symptoms but it's all mental? Next time I should try to swallow an Haribo Bear instead and tell my body to resolve the high estrogen symptoms by magic because it's "mental".

Be serious....

 

[Systemlord]

I felt the effects of anastrozole almost immediately. Then a dull pain behind the eyes within 2 hours and couldn’t stop yawning.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

This is bullshit. Half life is not equal to effects of meds. Do you take an aspirin and wait 6 hours to work or after 6 hours is when you have to take another one for your headache because the half life? Drugs don't work like that. We are talking about pharmacocinetcs not talking like GYM bro-lore from forums that , for example, say "you need to wait 6 weeks to feel testosterone" (aka starts to gain ttemendous weight and bloat). I can garantee you that after taking Arimidex and shuting down my estrogen I can resolve my ED, anxiety, agressiveness and insonia and you say it's mental? So explain why I need to pop an AI, which dropsy estrogen when I am feeling high estrogen symptoms but it's all mental? Next time I should try to swallow an Haribo Bear instead and tell my body to resolve the high estrogen symptoms by magic because it's "mental".

Be serious....

yes its mental. and I suspect your anxiety is purely mental too. aspirin works quick, anastrazole does not. anastrazole blocks NEW conversion to e2 not the existing levels of e2. this will simply take time. peak plasma is 3h, but this is merely the time where it will reach its full plasma level at which point. so i felt better after 30min can only be mental. trust me the mind is a powerful tool

 

[Systemlord]

anastrazole blocks NEW conversion to e2 not the existing levels of e2.

What you’re saying is once you take anastrozole, it starts blocking new conversion, if you’re not adding new estrogen to existing levels, then E2 levels can change immediately afterwards.

Your argument makes no sense. I don’t think you appreciate how quickly serum estrogen can change by inducing something which blocks its conversion.

 

[DixieWrecked]

I agree it works fast. I'll be pissing like a racehorse just a few hours after a dose.

From my limited research, half life of serum estrodial is only about 30 minutes so it mkaes sense that levels would drop very quickly.

 

[bixt]

I'll be pissing like a racehorse just a few hours after a dose

Haha, same here, that's how I know its working damn fast.