Labcorp VS Quest

[David2311]

I had my total testosterone checked at Quest and Labcorp exactly 24 hours apart.

Quest was 149
Labcorp was 1018

I take a daily compounded cream and test 24 hours after application

How can the numbers be so far apart?

 

[Systemlord]

How can the numbers be so far apart?

I'm on Jatenzo, a newer oral testosterone which has a similar half-life to T cream, 6 hours, testosterone peaks in 2 hours from a trough level of 289 -> 1000 ng/dL. I'm supposed to test at 6 hours after my morning dosage.

If I test at 24 hours, my levels no matter the dosage will always be low, even though my peak levels are higher.

I take a daily compounded cream and test 24 hours after application

This is the wrong time to be testing, you should test at 6 hours.

 

[David2311]

Thank you for the reply. My Endo asked me to test 24 hours after application to see what my trough number was. Quest is cheaper but she said her order was for Labcorp and I had to use them!

 

[Systemlord]

My Endo asked me to test 24 hours after application to see what my trough number was.

Another clueless endo, very common! All my endo's are no different, all clueless as they receive NO training in this field of medicine!

Most endo's are trained in diabetes and some do thyroid, but very few choose to focus on male sex hormones. In these cases, TRT is the occasional therapy prescribe to a patient and as a result they don't pick up on things very quickly.

Almost never do they pay attention to the half-life of the medicine they prescribe. The half-life determines when to test levels.

A lot of doctors are overwhelmed and are slaves to the insurance companies.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

take a daily compounded cream

What part of your body? Arms?

 

[Pnw0031]

Anyone on cream try doing something like 3 clicks in the morning, one at night? Or even use an injected base along with cream? I feel like I’m crashing at night and feeling like shit. Best I felt was on propionate but it gave me insomnia. Sorry if I’m hijacking the thread

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Anyone on cream try doing something like 3 clicks in the morning, one at night? Or even use an injected base along with cream? I feel like I’m crashing at night and feeling like shit. Best I felt was on propionate but it gave me insomnia. Sorry if I’m hijacking the thread

Your question is on a pretty unrelated topic thread. Might start a new thread with this question.

I know members here have done both morning/evening, and injection/cream combos. I have done both and cream does not work well for me period. I was never fully satisfied with straight T cyp, and was glad to find @Cataceous ratio of 4 parts cypionateor enanthate to 3 parts proprionate by weight. I mix the esters in a sterile vial and inject a small dose daily. The prop gives a bit of peak/trough each day, but the enanthate keeps the base/trough level high enough. Mimics a daily rhythm of T. Actually think more men should know about this.

 

[madman]

Your question is on a pretty unrelated topic thread. Might start a new thread with this question.

I know members here have done both morning/evening, and injection/cream combos. I have done both and cream does not work well for me period. I was never fully satisfied with straight T cyp, and was glad to find @Cataceous ratio of 4 parts cypionateor enanthate to 3 parts proprionate by weight. I mix the esters in a sterile vial and inject a small dose daily. The prop gives a bit of peak/trough each day, but the enanthate keeps the base/trough level high enough. Mimics a daily rhythm of T. Actually think more men should know about this.

Need to clear this up.

The closest you could get to mimicking the natural 24hr circadian rhythm of a healthy young male would be using the T patch (most closely mimics natty T) before bed!

T-prop daily let alone when used with (TC/TE) would never mimic this.

As i have stated in previous threads.

Many fail to realize that T levels gradually rise overnight reaching peak in the early AM.


*elevated and near peak TT level during nighttime sleep, peak TT level around the time of morning awakening

*T production occurs in the greatest amount during sleep as recurring pulses at approximately 90 min intervals in healthy young males and approximately 140 min in healthy middle-aged males (91)

T.Cyp 100 mg/week - Night sweats, anxiety

Sorry to hear you are struggling there mate. Something similar I had as well or at least some of the symptoms you've listed. Most of mine were- elevated BP and RHR, some anxiety, feeling hot and overstimulation, as I believe. My protocol of choice, since starting TRT less then 12 months ago...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Cataceous]

...
The closest you could get to mimicking the natural 24hr circadian rhythm of a healthy young male would be using the T patch (most closely mimics natty T) before bed!

T-prop daily let alone when used with (TC/TE) would never mimic this.
...

I agree that the textbook Androderm curve does look the most like a natural diurnal rhythm.


However, other transdermal products do not fare as well as a testosterone propionate [TP] blend. Androgel, for example:



Compared to transdermal products, a TP blend is easier to precisely tune, without being subject to the vagaries of skin absorption; you can adjust peak and trough values to suit your physiology. A TP blend does lead to a faster-than-natural rise in serum testosterone. We're estimating that the post-injection peak is reached in around 2-6 hours. This implies that injection in the very early morning hours would best mimic a natural rhythm. However, in my experience, injecting upon awakening yields satisfactory results. Unlike transdermal products, a TP blend does not subject one to unusually high levels of DHT.

 

[madman]

I agree that the textbook Androderm curve does look the most like a natural diurnal rhythm.


However, other transdermal products do not fare as well as a testosterone propionate [TP] blend. Androgel, for example:



Compared to transdermal products, a TP blend is easier to precisely tune, without being subject to the vagaries of skin absorption; you can adjust peak and trough values to suit your physiology. A TP blend does lead to a faster-than-natural rise in serum testosterone. We're estimating that the post-injection peak is reached in around 2-6 hours. This implies that injection in the very early morning hours would best mimic a natural rhythm. However, in my experience, injecting upon awakening yields satisfactory results. Unlike transdermal products, a TP blend does not subject one to unusually high levels of DHT.

Yes but the natty rise in endogenous T happens gradually overnight and highest levels are achieved in the early AM.

*elevated and near peak TT level during nighttime sleep, peak TT level around the time of morning awakening

You could never mimic this with TP.

If anything one could state somewhat mimics.

Even then when injecting the medium acting esterified TE/TC levels will rise much faster than what most people would think.

T levels can peak 8-12 hrs post-injection.

Swerdloff has data unfortunately not shown in the paper which he states showing TE peaking 6 hrs post-injection.

As you would know throwing in TP with TC/TE will drive up the peak further.

 

[Cataceous]

Yes but the natty rise in endogenous T happens gradually overnight and highest levels are achieved in the early AM.

*elevated and near peak TT level during nighttime sleep, peak TT level around the time of morning awakening

You could never mimic this with TP.

I'd amend this to "It's impractical to exactly mimic this with TP." With a programmable pump system it would be possible to produce nearly any desired response. Of course in that case you might as well use TNE for even better fidelity.

 

[madman]

I'd amend this to "It's impractical to exactly mimic this with TP." With a programmable pump system it would be possible to produce nearly any desired response. Of course in that case you might as well use TNE for even better fidelity.

The point here being is most are still caught up on TP mimicking the natty diurnal rhythm.

 

[Cataceous]

The point here being is most are still caught up on TP mimicking the natty diurnal rhythm.

In my experience the excessive peak/trough ratio is the biggest problem with using straight TP daily. Blending with a longer ester solves that.

A plausible hypothesis is that there may be benefits in creating a diurnal rhythm, even if it's an imperfect copy of a natural one. A few individuals claim better sleep compared to when levels are kept relatively steady on TC or TE.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

@madman,

I have done labs twice a day several times to satisfy curiosity. While it does not coincide perfectly with ciracadian timing, the enanthate/propionate blend does provide a daily swing. It works for me, and eliminates the water retention and E2 type symptoms I experienced on only T cyp (HCG has been a mainstay throughout all my years of injections as well).

 

[Pnw0031]

Your question is on a pretty unrelated topic thread. Might start a new thread with this question.

I know members here have done both morning/evening, and injection/cream combos. I have done both and cream does not work well for me period. I was never fully satisfied with straight T cyp, and was glad to find @Cataceous ratio of 4 parts cypionateor enanthate to 3 parts proprionate by weight. I mix the esters in a sterile vial and inject a small dose daily. The prop gives a bit of peak/trough each day, but the enanthate keeps the base/trough level high enough. Mimics a daily rhythm of T. Actually think more men should know about this.

Thank you, sorry for being off topic. In what ways did cream not work for you? I started cream recently after using cyp and haven’t had the sex drive I was hoping for. Prop gave me the best sex drive, mood, what have you but insomnia. I learned recently I’m hypothyroid which causes all the symptoms I’ve been going through including insomnia and exercise intolerance. Waiting for the full t3 labs to come back to see what direction I take. I think I’m going to give prop a second try but with my thyroid (hopefully) fixed. I have a theory that issues with trt descend from thyroid issues. Just my thoughts

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Thank you, sorry for being off topic. In what ways did cream not work for you? I started cream recently after using cyp and haven’t had the sex drive I was hoping for. Prop gave me the best sex drive, mood, what have you but insomnia. I learned recently I’m hypothyroid which causes all the symptoms I’ve been going through including insomnia and exercise intolerance. Waiting for the full t3 labs to come back to see what direction I take. I think I’m going to give prop a second try but with my thyroid (hopefully) fixed. I have a theory that issues with trt descend from thyroid issues. Just my thoughts

No Apology necessary, just think you will get more response under a title that is aligned with your question.

Cream ineffective raising T enough.