Lab Results - 24 Months on TRT/15 Months on Daily Injections

[CoastWatcher]

So if your doctor didn't believe it, and it's almost unheard of, are you the first case of this?

I'm the second patient in her practice. I will repeat the test along with liver function tests - which were just fine three months ago.

 

[TMI]

Interesting, Coast. I look forward to seeing the follow-up test results. One thing one we can probably agree on is that tests can fluctuate unpredictably. Don't know your age, but SHBG does tend to go up as one gets older, I believe.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Interesting, Coast. I look forward to seeing the follow-up test results. One thing one we can probably agree on is that tests can fluctuate unpredictably. Don't know your age, but SHBG does tend to go up as one gets older, I believe.

Mine has dropped with TRT. I'm 60 years old, and my pre TRT SHBG level was about 30. After almost a year on TRT, my latest blood tests showed my SHBG at 21. I inject EOD trying to avoid taking an AI. I also take DIM and Calcium D-Glucarate to help fight the high E2 (52, last test), but I may end up going to daily injections if that doesn't nip it in the bud by January. I'm seriously trying to avoid anastrozole at all costs.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Mine has dropped with TRT. I'm 60 years old, and my pre TRT SHBG level was about 30. After almost a year on TRT, my latest blood tests showed my SHBG at 21. I inject EOD trying to avoid taking an AI. I also take DIM and Calcium D-Glucarate to help fight the high E2 (52, last test), but I may end up going to daily injections if that doesn't nip it in the bud by January. I'm seriously trying to avoid anastrozole at all costs.

I'm 58. I fully appreciate your desire to avoid an AI. I saw E2 jump to 55 and I did not feel well. It was daily shots or anastrozole. I am very grateful that the daily regimen did the trick.

Are you feeling off with an E2 sitting in the low 50s?

 

[TMI]

Mine has dropped with TRT. I'm 60 years old, and my pre TRT SHBG level was about 30. After almost a year on TRT, my latest blood tests showed my SHBG at 21. I inject EOD trying to avoid taking an AI. I also take DIM and Calcium D-Glucarate to help fight the high E2 (52, last test), but I may end up going to daily injections if that doesn't nip it in the bud by January. I'm seriously trying to avoid anastrozole at all costs.

I hear ya! Anastrozole was the devil for me (severe flu-like symptoms). I'm doing daily injections, and pre-fill syringes a week in advance. I just started this routine, but find it no trouble at all so far. I hop out of the shower and inject, then take my various supplements (and I find taking them more annoying than the quick T shot). Best wishes with dialing in something that works for you.

 

[molonlabedoc]

Are these small dosages Subcutaneous?

 

[CoastWatcher]

Are these small dosages Subcutaneous?

Or shallow IM. I rotate and inject most everywhere I can reach.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Are you feeling off with an E2 sitting in the low 50s?

Yes, I am feeling "off." Libido is low, maybe a touch of water weight. Not where I want to be. My sensitive E2 was 51.7 on my last labs in late Aug.

I just started taking DIM and Calcium D-Glucarate (as per Dr. Saya's instructions) to see if we can bring it down that way. If I don't notice a difference in about a month, I'll probably be joining you on the daily injection circuit. That will be the last thing I can do before I have to suck it up and try anastrozole. Hopefully the daily injections (if required) will do the trick. I am not looking forward to introducing Anastrozole into my protocol...even tiny doses.

 

[Vince]

I inject both T and HCG every 3 1/2 days and no AI. Using an estrogen blocker, can cause low E2. Many doctor over-prescribe AI. We actually need estrogen for our health and it seems like some doctors don't know that.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Coast, what kind of supplements were you taking ? I'm convinced that if one isn't diabetic, pre-diabetic or doesn't have thyroid issues, then the problem is liver... either a fatty liver or something with the liver that doesn't function well.

I went from 4 to 13 taking a bunch of liver supplements in 6 - 7 weeks... I'm gonna get tested again soon to see where my SHBG is at... although I have been cutting on the liver supplements. Taking NAC 1.2g a day only

I think one of the reasons why your E2 is dialed in is because of an increased SHBG... of course daily injections play a part too. But before you had low SHBG and that means more E2 problems

As for supplements - B12, Vitamin D, COq10, NAC, Citrulline. Modest list.

 

[chasedat]

It's not exactly a good thing that SHBG has risen, is it? Considering SHBG holds on to testosterone and doesn't allow it to be used by the body, right? Or am I misunderstanding? Isn't Albumin the good one which holds on to testosterone and releases it as needed?

 

[CoastWatcher]

It's not exactly a good thing that SHBG has risen, is it? Considering SHBG holds on to testosterone and doesn't allow it to be used by the body, right? Or am I misunderstanding? Isn't Albumin the good one which holds on to testosterone and releases it as needed?

SHBG will settle where SHBG wants to settle. The rise I saw has the level at a comfortable spot, slowing - somewhat - the rapid clearance of testosterone that has been an issue in the past.

 

[johndoesmith]

It's not exactly a good thing that SHBG has risen, is it? Considering SHBG holds on to testosterone and doesn't allow it to be used by the body, right? Or am I misunderstanding? Isn't Albumin the good one which holds on to testosterone and releases it as needed?

SHBG is a complex molecule and its role in hormones is just yet to be understood. SHBG being too low is just as bad as it being too high, much like with anything else regarding hormones, balance is key.

Dr saya mentioned to me that SHBG has been found to bind to its own receptor, and its roles are being studied currently. I found an article finally that he was talking about I believe, except it's a bit more interesting.

"Over the past several years it has been shown that, in addition to functioning as a regulator of the free concentration of a number of steroid hormones, SHBG plays a central role in permitting certain steroid hormones to act without entering the cell." - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960076099000709

 

[chasedat]

SHBG will settle where SHBG wants to settle. The rise I saw has the level at a comfortable spot, slowing - somewhat - the rapid clearance of testosterone that has been an issue in the past.

Ok that makes sense. Mine is very low at 13.8. I've changed from 90mg e35d. to ~22mg daily. Hoping this ties up some loose ends and it seems like folks have had success with a daily protocol. I look forward to it. Glad to see you're having success.

SHBG is a complex molecule and its role in hormones is just yet to be understood. SHBG being too low is just as bad as it being too high, much like with anything else regarding hormones, balance is key.

Dr saya mentioned to me that SHBG has been found to bind to its own receptor, and its roles are being studied currently. I found an article finally that he was talking about I believe, except it's a bit more interesting.

"Over the past several years it has been shown that, in addition to functioning as a regulator of the free concentration of a number of steroid hormones, SHBG plays a central role in permitting certain steroid hormones to act without entering the cell." - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960076099000709

Ahhh, ok. That's why I've read mixed things about the SHBG levels.

Thanks a lot, guys, for the clarification!

 

[madman]

There are also other factors related to body composition/liver function which affect the metabolic clearance rate of testosterone.http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2006-0822

 

[Shawn]

CW,

I'm surprised that you do daily test but not daily HCG. I would think those to HCG shots would spike your E2 siginificantly, defeating the purpose of the daily test shots. You claim you've never taken an AI but how do you know your E2 isn't elevated those days and the next day after the HCG? I am an easy converter. I switched to 20mg test enth and 70iu HCG daily, been on for 4 days. The food you eat can also increase E2 (soy, conventional meats, even vegetables, sweet potatoes, etc).

 

[Vince Carter]

HCG @ 250iu E3.5D isn't likely at all to spike any one's E2, certainly not enough to prompt someone to stick themselves twice per day with T and HCG, but great first post on your part.

 

[Shawn]

It depends on how suppressed an individual is. If I don't take HCG for a month, a 250iu shot would hardly do much, let alone convert to E2. The conversion seems to happen when levels are saturated. Thus, excess is converted. For me it seems anything over 100iu hcg at a time will spike my E2 unless I have been depleted as mentioned for weeks at a time. Others may be different. I do the HCG subQ in the stomach which is very effortless. The test is IM rotated throughout the thighs and glutes so there is a wider territory to cover.

 

[Vince Carter]

why don't you make a thread with your labs and blood draws and get a discussion going on your case, there's a 100 people with 100 opinions on HCG.

 

[Vince Carter]

I'm absolutely certain my friend CoastWatcher welcomes mine and anyone else's input to his thread. If you want to have a personal 1:1 with him, PM him.