Keto Diet (GOOD OR BAD) just when I was almost convinced...

[Matt Leiser]

I did notice that there was an increase in urination and I did start to get lethargic (and a little constipated. Sorry if TMI) so I did increase my electrolytes. I drink bone broth for the sodium, an electrolyte drink for potassium and do supplement magnesium and zinc. I also take Vit D and K2 along with a multi-vitamin, fish and flax oil plus arginine and citruline.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

and a little constipated. Sorry if TMI.

LOL! No Shit!

First thing that crossed my mind about such a diet!

Is there anything wrong in keto diet with eating heaps and heaps of greens and non starchy veggies?

 

[FeelingLost]

LOL! No Shit!

First thing that crossed my mind about such a diet!

I though just the opposite. With "Dinner is always oven roasted veggies (broccoli, Brussel sprouts, zucchini, eggplant, asparagus), salad" and all the coconut oil, sunflower butter one would be running to the toilet all the time.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

I kind of missed that i guess. I was reading another Keto menu plan that had close to zero veggies...

In experimenting with going off grains and legumes in favor of huge amounts of non-starchy and moderate starchy (squash, sweet potato, plantain, beet, turnip) veggies, my stools went to shit. Terribly malformed with alternating constipation and great urge but little productivity. Once I added some beans and a small amount of grains back, stools are bulky and regular. I suspect it has a lot to do with gut biome. There are arguments that grains and legumes create porosity, but other arguments that they contribute to better biome balance, adding fermentable and resistant starch etc...

I also personally believe that personal food sensitivities can factor in and lead to havoc in the intestines.

 

[FeelingLost]

I kind of missed that i guess. I was reading another Keto menu plan that had close to zero veggies...

In experimenting with going off grains and legumes in favor of huge amounts of non-starchy and moderate starchy (squash, sweet potato, plantain, beet, turnip) veggies, my stools went to shit. Terribly malformed with alternating constipation and great urge but little productivity. Once I added some beans and a small amount of grains back, stools are bulky and regular. I suspect it has a lot to do with gut biome. There are arguments that grains and legumes create porosity, but other arguments that they contribute to better biome balance, adding fermentable and resistant starch etc...

I also personally believe that personal food sensitivities can factor in and lead to havoc in the intestines.

I do get very confused with what to eat and avoid.
The Dr I posted above says eat 7-10 cups of veggies every day. I could do that, hell I probably already do that.
He uses the Glycemic Index chart to select the proper veggies. Don't eat anything with a GI of >55

The scaryest part for me is what happens if you go out of ketosis and you have eaten all that fat and cholesterol. Are we talking heart attack?

I really would like to try this and Matt's menu is looking pretty tastie. I have already given up most products made with flour. High GI foods, well except watermelon. I don't want to just drink bacon fat all day long and that was my first impression of keto dieting.

 

[Matt Leiser]

No shit literally LOL.

For me, no as I always ate a lot of veggies. My problem was always the amount of starches and added sugars that accompanied the veggies. I didn’t just start a keto diet. I started just by cutting down carbs but learned how to replace them and what worked for me. I realized early on my protein was too high so I cut it back and figured out how to work in the fats. Then read about the keto diet and figured well since I’m already half way there why not try it.

I have heard stories of people making a complete 180 and just start keto and have problems with digesting the increased fats or processing the 7 to 10 cups of veggies a day when they didn’t eat any before hand. I didn’t experience this since I made the change over a few weeks. I think personally since I gave myself time to adjust I had an easier time overall and sticking with it. Candy and soda were never much of a problem, but the pizza, bread, pasta and beer took its toll. Since I was always a savory person I still get to eat savory food. I don’t feel like I am missing anything.

It took me a little time to wrap my head around 70% of my calories should come from healthy fats since it was beaten in to me since I was a kid that saturated fat will kill you and cholesterol is bad. I know this diet isn’t for everyone but I can’t argue with the results. 349lbs to 286 in 6 months.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

I don't want to drag the topic into another tangent, but this is the original question... Good or Bad?

I just watched the video in the OP. i tend to agree with him on several counts. I view the whole thing as Jury is still out, and a lot of this comes down to belief systems, plus the possibility that different diets suit different people. There is conflicting and compelling research on many sides, but what really matters is does it work FOR YOU? Only one way to find out!

I believe that Keto diet can be a great tool. For some who really stick with it, it seems to work, for others, they have problems with it, and for many for whatever reasons can't stick with it. My sister in law is a classic case of someone who did Atkins to lose weight. It kind of wrked, she did lose some weight, but she suffered other ill health and stopped the diet. Subsequently she became more overweight than when she started. OK, so one case, doesn't mean much, but this seems very common.

I am really curious how it will work out for Vince and Matt for the long haul... for life.

I also believe based on human digestive tract type etc that the human organism is biologically suited to omnivorous diet. And in spending time with indigenous peoples, I've learned about their traditional diets and depending where they are in the world such diet composition can be entirely different between different peoples. Personally I am of WASP European descent, and I do not expect an Inuit diet of seal, polar bear and whale blubber would suit me. Nor would a fruitarian diet from a tropical environment. With my aboriginal friends despite their changeover to damper (White bread) tea and fried chicken when I asked about their traditional hunter gatherer diet they were happy to go out bush and show me and i had a great opportunity to eat that way with them... seafood of all kinds, reptiles, grubs, mangrove worms, tubers, wild honey, fruits and greens from the bush etc... very omnivorous including all macros; fat, carb protein, and traditionally sometimes availabilty of foods meant different macros available seasonally.

Anyway, some balance of all macro groups works best for me. I don't have bad lipids, am not overweight, have stable gut and pretty constant energy levels. This was accomplished though experimentation and finding that reducing carbs is helpful, but to me Keto diet looks awful on both enjoyment of eating and what I BELIEVE to be healthy FOR ME.

349lbs to 286 in 6 months.

WHOA! Congrats

I've never been heavier than 150lb

 

[Saul]

It took me a little time to wrap my head around 70% of my calories should come from healthy fats since it was beaten in to me since I was a kid that saturated fat will kill you and cholesterol is bad. I know this diet isn’t for everyone but I can’t argue with the results. 349lbs to 286 in 6 months.

That is where I am at too. I already eat veggies and protein, but 70% of calories from fats - yikes. Does not even sound good. Whole grains, oatmeal, other complex carbs in moderation seem better. I don't use weight loss as an indicator of a healthy diet. If you all are eating this much lean protein and veggies how are you getting all the fat calories - oil shakes? Keep an eye on your colon. I am all for cutting out crappy carbs, like sugar and refined flower, processed food. I will keep a balance with complex carbs - if I went Keto my toilet bowl would look like a 3 year old got in there with a grease pen !! Ha ha

 

[Matt Leiser]

I think it is much more complex than good or bad but based on the circumstances. Just like trt is taylored to the individual I believe diets are as well. What works for one doesn’t work for another. Everyone has their own nutritional requirements. If you are insulin resistant and border lining diabetic could an LCHF/ketogenic lifestyle work for you? My belief is yes, but that is based on my n of 1. If you are metabolically healthy can you eat keto? Sure but if you can handle the carbs go for it.

I know for myself, right now I can’t handle high amounts. Once I hit my goals can I reintroduce them and stay sensitive to insulin is a question I will need to answer in due time.

 

[Saul]

I think it is much more complex than good or bad but based on the circumstances. Just like trt is taylored to the individual I believe diets are as well. What works for one doesn’t work for another. Everyone has their own nutritional requirements. If you are insulin resistant and border lining diabetic could an LCHF/ketogenic lifestyle work for you? My belief is yes, but that is based on my n of 1. If you are metabolically healthy can you eat keto? Sure but if you can handle the carbs go for it.

I know for myself, right now I can’t handle high amounts. Once I hit my goals can I reintroduce them and stay sensitive to insulin is a question I will need to answer in due time.

That makes sense. Also, when I say "you" in my post I was meaning the collective you - people on the KETO diet. Like you, I was always taught to have a balanced diet, carbs for sports energy, and keep the fats in check so I come with pre-conceived or taught views.

 

[madman]

I think it is much more complex than good or bad but based on the circumstances. Just like trt is taylored to the individual I believe diets are as well. What works for one doesn’t work for another. Everyone has their own nutritional requirements. If you are insulin resistant and border lining diabetic could an LCHF/ketogenic lifestyle work for you? My belief is yes, but that is based on my n of 1. If you are metabolically healthy can you eat keto? Sure but if you can handle the carbs go for it.

I know for myself, right now I can’t handle high amounts. Once I hit my goals can I reintroduce them and stay sensitive to insulin is a question I will need to answer in due time.

Agree as it basically comes down to ones genetics and insulin sensitivity regarding carbohydrate intake and whether one follows a low carb/high fat diet or a moderate-high carb/lower fat diet. I have always followed a high carb (complex lower g.i. from whole foods sources)/lower fat/moderate protein diet and feel great overall, annual blood work (yearly check-up) comes back good. I have always been naturally lean and found that I need a fair amount of carbs/overall calories to gain weight (muscle) and also find that it is easier putting on muscle mass/gaining strength/better recovery/fuller muscles/increased pumps when having my muscle glycogen stores topped up. I have tried lower carb in the past 100-150 grams/day with higher fat intake/moderate protein and overall increase in calories and find I loose some size and feel weaker in the gym and do not recover as well and my muscles look flatter. I am by no means against people following a low carb/high fat diet as it works wonders for many regarding overall health/fat loss(if in a calorie deficit or burning excess calories through activity) but it does not suite my body type. I must be some what of a genetic anomaly as I consume on average 500 grams carbohydrate/day and recently upped to 600 grams/day spread out over 5 meals combined with fibrous carbs from vegetables/lean protein from meats/some healthy fats added to each meal in and consume 4000 calories/day and am still fairly lean. Always eating/shitting/training lol!

 

[madman]

 

[FeelingLost]

Thanks Madman I enjoyed the first video but the second was a bit of a yawn-er. I didn't make it thru the whole thing.
I am fighting sarcopenia, it really hit me at 61. Triggering depression/anxiety/panic attacks/apathy I also did not know at the time my TT was setting at 176 ng/dL
TRT and tripling my protein intake has made a world of difference in my overall mood and seeing some minor results from exersize.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

FL, are you on statins?

 

[FeelingLost]

FL, are you on statins?

NO....well maybe on my last Defy consult, 3 weeks ago, Calkins was concerned about my lipids. They got worse on his protocol and my diet was clean, mostly.
He asked me to take 120mg CoQ10 and 1200mg Red Yeast Rice. As I was told some statins are made from a Super Concentrate of red yeast rice.
On my first consult he put me on 3000-4000 Omega 3 and 25mg DHEA

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Right, I remember this now from your other posts. So it sounds like a rather abrupt onset of sarcopenia, Did that happen along with taking, or does it seem to be compounded by the Red rice yeast? I think you know my personal story about muscle wasting and statins... How about a CK test?

 

[FeelingLost]

Right, I remember this now from your other posts. So it sounds like a rather abrupt onset of sarcopenia, Did that happen along with taking, or does it seem to be compounded by the Red rice yeast? I think you know my personal story about muscle wasting and statins... How about a CK test?

In all honesty I don't feel any different on the CoQ10/RedYeastRice.
It has only been 3 weeks and I am willing to stick it out until my next blood test early December.

Its the chicken or the egg story for me and sarcopenia. One day I came home from a big bucket list event 9 day/120 miles kayaking the Green and Colorado River thru Canyonlands. I walked in my house sat down in my livingroom recliner and did not get out of it for 2 years. Aphathy/depression hit me like a wave out of the blue. Extreme nonstop negative self talk triggerd Anxiety turned into short panic attacks turned into 24/7 panic requiring meds to remain out of the emergency room. 6 months of testing only turned up low T (primary hypo).

 

[SoCal Guy]

FeelingGood, not sure if you still have any issues in that area, but if you do, this book by David Burns is absolutely excellent:

When Panic Attacks

Note that you do actually have to do the (simple) exercises to get relief. (Merely reading the book will not give much benefit.)

 

[madman]

In all honesty I don't feel any different on the CoQ10/RedYeastRice.
It has only been 3 weeks and I am willing to stick it out until my next blood test early December.

Its the chicken or the egg story for me and sarcopenia. One day I came home from a big bucket list event 9 day/120 miles kayaking the Green and Colorado River thru Canyonlands. I walked in my house sat down in my livingroom recliner and did not get out of it for 2 years. Aphathy/depression hit me like a wave out of the blue. Extreme nonstop negative self talk triggerd Anxiety turned into short panic attacks turned into 24/7 panic requiring meds to remain out of the emergency room. 6 months of testing only turned up low T (primary hypo).

Co-q10 is a fat soluble so levels will take time to build up. What form are you taking ubiquinone or ubiquinol? Taking anywhere from 200-400 mg/daily spread out is best. It is a great supplement for cardiovascular/heart health and has been shown in studies to lower blood pressure.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Great trip! We did the Stillwater section mineral bottom to the confluence many years ago.