Is training fasted optimal for hypertrophy and strength.

[Deleted member 43589]

Intermittent fasting is a huge trend now, how ever how effective is this diet when it comes to gaining muscle and strength. This study used an 16/8 type of intermittent fast most common on Muslim religions.

Timing of Resistance Training During Ramadan Fasting and Its Effects on Muscle Strength and Hypertrophy - PubMed

Practicing RT during RIF appears not to have adverse effects on muscle hypertrophy and strength no matter whether it is practiced in FED or fasted state. However, RT had greater effects on muscle strength when applied in FED. Our findings suggest that training sessions should be scheduled after...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

My take on this. While in the 29 day period these subjects did not lose any muscle mass, the subjects who training after eating did gain strength. Over time, these strength gains will lead to muscle hypertrophy. So while fasting is not optimal for resistance training, it may be possible to get around the negatives by training in a non-fasted period.

Effect of fed- versus fasted state resistance training during Ramadan on body composition and selected metabolic parameters in bodybuilders - PubMed

Hypertrophic training in a fasted or in a fed state during Ramadan does not affect body mass and body composition of bodybuilders. Additionally, Ramadan fasting induced changes in urinary and some biochemical parameters, but these changes were not different according to when the training occurred.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

While this study did not test strength in either group they did find body mass and body fat percentage remained unchanged in FAST and FED during the whole period of the investigation. So it appears that intermittent fasting is not going to cause a change in body mass if you are still eating enough calories above basal metabolism, exercise and TEF. In order to cause a change in body fat levels you are most likely going to have to be in a negative caloric balance for the entire period you do the fasting. This diet did seem to show some healthy changes in urine samples.

One thing I want to point out with the comparison is Ramadan is a religious celebration and the amount of calories you eat after sundown until sun up is not a concern at all. In fact, "the ultimate goal of fasting during Ramadan is gaining greater God-consciousness, known in Arabic as taqwa, signifying a state of constant awareness of God. From this awareness a person should gain discipline, self-restraint and a greater incentive to do good and avoid wrong." Those that do intermittent fasting are doing this only to change body composition and be healthy. That being said, it is even more important that those who do intermittent fasting understand that training while fasted is not optimal for gaining muscle or strength, like wise being in a negative caloric balance is also not optimal.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Eating before training is good and stopping eating a few hours before bed is beneficial from what I hear. Breakfast like a king, lunch like a Prince and dinner like a peasant. Or something like that lol

 

[Deleted member 43589]

The biggest problem with eating before you train is the stomach needs about 2-3 hours to empty. Training before this may take a lot of the blood needed in digestion away from the muscle. So I would keep the last meal before training about 2-3 hour pre-workout and definitely including some complex carbs. Yep, I hate going to bed on a full stomach.

 

[ExpatinLatAm]

I train at 11 or so, and prefer a snack of mainly carbs beforehand. Fasted training makes me feel really lethargic. Numbers on my lifts drop as well.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I can’t eat a normal meal before training. It absolutely makes me tired. My post pandrial crash is pretty bad.

I usually have some coffee and a banana.

 

[studog63]

Been weight training for years and can't Imagine training fasted. The whole intermittent fasting craze along with Keto diet is all bullshit . It's unsustainable long term so why do it . I follow Layne Norton he's a PHD and a record holding power lifter . Anyone who wants science based diet and training info should watch his youtube channel.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Layne Norton has been around for a long time! Always enjoyed his opinion.

I train at 1:30pm so I have three higher carb meals before i ever make it to the gym. I eat about every 3 hours. The last meal is about 2 hours before the gym with protein, fat and lower carbs. Of course I am up at 4am every morning. After I get back from the gym I drink a 50g protein shake with carbs. Two more meals before I got to be at 8:30pm.

Now my wife is always on some kind of diet and she trains fasted all the time. Her energy levels are horrible and she is usually unable to keep the intensity up. She has also been alternating intermittent fasting with a keto diet and her muscles just don't grow. She will be the 1st to admit this this type of diet is not so good for weight training but she is constantly in a battle to lose weight.

@studog63, I am in a huge bodybuilding circle, most wanna-bees. Some have entertained intermittent fasting as a way to cut fat. I always remind them that there is not ONE IFBB Pro that does intermittent fasting. Even when they cut for a show they do carb cycling, not intermittent fasting. There is an obvious reason for this. Pro BBs also tried the keto route and the results were embarrassing. Type II muscle fibers are glucose dependent. Cut the carbs and you will look flat.​

 

[Vince]

I'm just the opposite. I like training early in the morning on empty stomach. That's when I do my best. I also believe in eating a low carb diet, it does keep me cut.

When I say low carb. I do eat non-starchy vegetables and good wholesome nuts. Along with good healthy fats.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Vince, I have had the luck to be able to do a 3 day dietary analysis on a few IFBB Pros. Most of them eat kind of low carb diets. While the muscles need carbs to grow, carbohydrates calories in excess can quickly spill over to be stored as body fat. So lower glycemic carbs are usually consumed as much as possible.

Here is analysis I did on Phil Heath during a bulking cycle.

Typical day’s total consumption: 9394 calories, 910 g protein, 881 g carbs, 239 g

Protein = 910g = 3640 cal (39%)

Carbs = 881g = 3524 cal (38%)

Fat - 239g = 211 cal (23%)

Fat is usually kept the same year round, Protein is kept the same and carbs are cycled. Most carbs are low glycemic sources and taken in before and after training to only fill glycogen stores used during training. This help avoid any spill over to body fat stores.

My hats off to you training early in the morning. I have 7am classes and up at 4am but I am not functioning 100% until after 8am. It would be hard to get a meal in that time of the morning.

 

[Vince]

Vince, I have had the luck to be able to do a 3 day dietary analysis on a few IFBB Pros. Most of them eat kind of low carb diets. While the muscles need carbs to grow, carbohydrates calories in excess can quickly spill over to be stored as body fat. So lower glycemic carbs are usually consumed as much as possible.

Here is analysis I did on Phil Heath during a bulking cycle.

Typical day’s total consumption: 9394 calories, 910 g protein, 881 g carbs, 239 g

Protein = 910g = 3640 cal (39%)

Carbs = 881g = 3524 cal (38%)

Fat - 239g = 211 cal (23%)

Fat is usually kept the same year round, Protein is kept the same and carbs are cycled. Most carbs are low glycemic sources and taken in before and after training to only fill glycogen stores used during training. This help avoid any spill over to body fat stores.

My hats off to you training early in the morning. I have 7am classes and up at 4am but I am not functioning 100% until after 8am. It would be hard to get a meal in that time of the morning.

Well I never been a bodybuilder and never will haha. But I do like to work out and have a nice physique. I do work for a living even at 68, I'm still working. It's always been physical work so never a desk job. So I guess that makes me different than a lot of members here. Even now I'm on my feet all day.

I do like getting compliments on how I look. It's funny a lot of time. It's men complimenting me.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Well I never been a bodybuilder and never will haha. But I do like to work out and have a nice physique. I do work for a living even at 68, I'm still working. It's always been physical work so never a desk job. So I guess that makes me different than a lot of members here. Even now I'm on my feet all day.

I do like getting compliments on how I look. It's funny a lot of time. It's men complimenting me.

I turn 68 in December, I under stand you completely. I am just happy to be in the gym still training. My days of being big and strong are long past. You are doing great to be able to stay on your feet working hard at your job. I had to retire from job 8 years ago because I could no longer tolerate the work. I am now legally disabled. Got the blue handicap placard on both cars. I work out at 1:30pm because I only work 2 hours a day. At our age it is a big feather in the hat to get a compliment on our physique.

 

[studog63]

Layne Norton has been around for a long time! Always enjoyed his opinion.

I train at 1:30pm so I have three higher carb meals before i ever make it to the gym. I eat about every 3 hours. The last meal is about 2 hours before the gym with protein, fat and lower carbs. Of course I am up at 4am every morning. After I get back from the gym I drink a 50g protein shake with carbs. Two more meals before I got to be at 8:30pm.

Now my wife is always on some kind of diet and she trains fasted all the time. Her energy levels are horrible and she is usually unable to keep the intensity up. She has also been alternating intermittent fasting with a keto diet and her muscles just don't grow. She will be the 1st to admit this this type of diet is not so good for weight training but she is constantly in a battle to lose weight.

@studog63, I am in a huge bodybuilding circle, most wanna-bees. Some have entertained intermittent fasting as a way to cut fat. I always remind them that there is not ONE IFBB Pro that does intermittent fasting. Even when they cut for a show they do carb cycling, not intermittent fasting. There is an obvious reason for this. Pro BBs also tried the keto route and the results were embarrassing. Type II muscle fibers are glucose dependent. Cut the carbs and you will look flat.​

I'm 60 and have been weight training forever. I can tell by your post, you have to LOL.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I started in sports at 15 years old. Still going at 68 in December!

 

[Warrior]

I train at 430am, have for years. Always fasted. I also do a modified IF model 5 days aweek, at 62 IF is easy for meal prep and staying lean.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

personally i feel absolutely no difference fasted vs non fasted. i train at 8am typically
breakfast is always low carb (not on keto, just breakfast).
What I noticed is that the type of foods matter the most for me, when it comes to feeling tired vs good. I started doing a meat/dairy/fruit/honey diet (close to what Saladino recommends). never have this 'tired' feeling when eating this way. add some junk foods, like breads, oatmeat, wheat, not to mention seed oils, and I feel like absolute garbage with no energy.
I too follow Lane, just for the diversity of opinion, but overall not a fan of this guy. I think he has some sort of low self esteem plus no confidence.

 

[BadassBlues]

I don't call what I do as fasted training as I feel that a fast is zero calories from anything. I train in the mornings as well. At 67, my routine is far different than it used to be as a younger man. I drink a cup of coffee with half and half, take my preworkout supps and do the crossword puzzle for 30 minutes. Mental exercise first... Then I drink a concoction of electrolytes, creatine, beet powder and a recent addition of beta alanine.

30 minutes of cardio, followed by resistance training. I bought a very nice system from Force last year and I have dialed in a great program. Dripping wet and sweaty afterwards, I go chug a protein shake, shower, then breakfast.

I used to carry 225 pounds at 15% body fat as a young man, never "swole" by BB standards, but in good shape.

Now I am down to 205 with the same BMI, leaner... but not meaner because old age has mellowed me a bit. This really works for me at this point in my life.

I absolutely can't eat before a workout, I get sick to my stomach and feel lethargic.

 

[Ryan474]

I have always performed dramatically better in the gym fasted. I do think I am an oddball in this way. Likely some genetic issues there. I've tested it so many times and the difference is very clear. I'm not saying this is optimal for muscle-building, but for overall wellbeing and performance this works much better for me. Of note, I am on a carnivore diet due to autoimmune and GI issues (4 years).
If I eat a small lunch (say 3 oz of meat) and then workout 2-3 hours later, the workout is much worse than if I was fasted, working out at that same time.

 

[Belekas]

More power to you "training fasted" fellas. I'm different, and need carbs and not a few to train the way I always trained and like to train. I have no problem eating bread and I don't even count it as a junk food. On the contrary Sourdough bread is really good for the gut but expensive, tastes incredible and digests next to white rice, which, sadly I have a problem to digest now that I've turned 40. But I have other gut issues FWIW. Could eat anything in my 20s lol. Anyway I like eating quick-burning carbs before workout and have a protein shake. That digests absolutely great for me and I'm ready to attack my workout in 60min time. If I eat meat with starchy carbs lets say then its a different thing and I need 90-120mins to be able to perform at my own level that I need. So exactly for this particular reason I like quick-burning carbs pre and post workout with minimal fats added or even without.

 

[BadassBlues]

More power to you "training fasted" fellas. I'm different, and need carbs and not a few to train the way I always trained and like to train. I have no problem eating bread and I don't even count it as a junk food. On the contrary Sourdough bread is really good for the gut but expensive, tastes incredible and digests next to white rice, which, sadly I have a problem to digest now that I've turned 40. But I have other gut issues FWIW. Could eat anything in my 20s lol. Anyway I like eating quick-burning carbs before workout and have a protein shake. That digests absolutely great for me and I'm ready to attack my workout in 60min time. If I eat meat with starchy carbs lets say then its a different thing and I need 90-120mins to be able to perform at my own level that I need. So exactly for this particular reason I like quick-burning carbs pre and post workout with minimal fats added or even without.

I am also a big fan of bread and rice, my absolute favorite carbs. I avoid them while dieting, but eat them as part of my normal diet.

 

[Belekas]

I am also a big fan of bread and rice, my absolute favorite carbs. I avoid them while dieting, but eat them as part of my normal diet.

Thats one way to do it. Personally I never change food sources when leaning down unless I'm eating higher fat then go a bit lower on fats. Carbs always the same for me doesn't matter if bulking or cutting. No restrictions have worked wonders for me