Is Testosterone to Estradiol Ratio Important in Men?

[bigfred32]

I was on TRT for about a year before I had to use an AI. I take .25mg E3D and keeps it in check. I had all the symptoms of high E2 and tried all the OTC stuff. Nothing worked and I just spun my wheels. Like previously posted I use Nelsons theory for E2 ratios and feel great.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I am glad you feel great, bigfred32. I am pushing for researchers to go back into their data sets and redo statistical analysis to see if T/E2 is more predictive of efficacy in sexual function that plain TT or FT.

 

[jfullam]

BigFred - if you don't mind me asking, what is your approx body fat %? It seems like body fat/belly fat plays some role in ability to control E2 levels? I am just starting out with TRT, even though my BW looks great and I exercise 4-5x per week, I am still carrying quite a bit of belly fat. I currently weigh in at 205 at 5' 10". I'm probably carrying a good 15-20 lbs of excess fat right now. My ideal weight is 185-190#. But over the last 6 months, my weight has steadily increased even though I am exercising and have a reasonable diet. My metabolism seems out of whack currently and I am hopeful I can turn things around with proper T levels and continued exercise and diet.

 

[croaker24]

I was on TRT for about a year before I had to use an AI. I take .25mg E3D and keeps it in check. I had all the symptoms of high E2 and tried all the OTC stuff. Nothing worked and I just spun my wheels. Like previously posted I use Nelsons theory for E2 ratios and feel great.

Are you doing shots? If so, dosage, frequency per week?

 

[CoastWatcher]

This thread is of interest to me. Just about to start my new protocol with Defy next week:
1.) 60mg Test Cyp (200 mg/ml) 2x per week (I will inject subq on Sun and Wed mornings).
2.) 100iu HCG Daily every morning (also subq).
3.) Anastrozole 0.5mg/DIM 200mg By mouth 2x per week on Test injection day.
I would prefer not to take the AI if it is not completely needed.
My most recent BW was:
Total T: 263
Free T: 5.9
Estradiol Sensitive: 16.9
LH (Luteinizing Hormone): 2.5
Assuming my E2 will rise along with my Total T, if I monitor my E2 levels monthly (initially), what things can I do to ensure I keep those levels in check without resorting to an AI? I know some guys on here do without an AI. Does it come down to diet and exercise? I do exercise 4-5x per week (intensely), but I currently still have some belly fat that has been difficult for me to eliminate. My goal would be to execute on the above protocol without relying on an AI, if possible.

Exercise helps in multiple ways, but is not a guarantee that you'll not need an AI. I am not using one, but my E2 did climb too high on 60mg/twice weekly. I now inject every two days, 40mg, and am under control. I swim daily, lift three times a week. I just convert more than I wish I did. You may be just fine. Good luck!

 

[Vince Carter]

Adapting to my SHBG and injections EOD, I subscribed to Nelsons T:E ratio (which I state on the forum quite frequently), has gotten me off Anastrozole, COMPLETELY and I feel better than any other time up to this point.

 

[bigfred32]

Im trying to figure out how you guys do the copy quotes....Im not very computer literate. Hahahahaha.....

I have been using a compounded cream since starting TRT and respond really well to it.

As far as body fat %, not sure. As I get older its harder to lose weight than maintain it. I have totally leaned out and lost viseral fat since I got balanced and dialed in on TRT even though I could lose 20 lbs to be cut, I am very musclular so I dont worry too much about it. I know I aromatase E2, but its very easy to manage.

 

[jfullam]

Im trying to figure out how you guys do the copy quotes....Im not very computer literate. Hahahahaha.....

I have been using a compounded cream since starting TRT and respond really well to it.

As far as body fat %, not sure. As I get older its harder to lose weight than maintain it. I have totally leaned out and lost viseral fat since I got balanced and dialed in on TRT even though I could lose 20 lbs to be cut, I am very musclular so I dont worry too much about it. I know I aromatase E2, but its very easy to manage.

bigfred32 - Just click the Reply with Quote link on the bottom of the pos you want to Quote.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Role of Estradiol in Men and Its Management

 

[meelord]

BigFred - if you don't mind me asking, what is your approx body fat %? It seems like body fat/belly fat plays some role in ability to control E2 levels? I am just starting out with TRT, even though my BW looks great and I exercise 4-5x per week, I am still carrying quite a bit of belly fat. I currently weigh in at 205 at 5' 10". I'm probably carrying a good 15-20 lbs of excess fat right now. My ideal weight is 185-190#. But over the last 6 months, my weight has steadily increased even though I am exercising and have a reasonable diet. My metabolism seems out of whack currently and I am hopeful I can turn things around with proper T levels and continued exercise and diet.

Did you figure out a way to lose the weight and belly fat? I am struggling with the same issue even though I eat well and exercise.

 

[TucsonJJ]

Interesting. This could explain why I felt better with a TT of around 600-800 and E2 around 20 than I did with a TT of 1200-1500 and E2 of around 20. I wasn't considering the ratio at all, just that the absolute e2 number was fine before so should be fine now.

I'm guessing there's still an upper e2 number that you don't want to exceed even if your T is high enough to keep the ratio correct, right? You'd need an E2 of 60 to offset a TT of 1200 and keep the ratio at 20. Probably not a good idea, right?

Isn't FREE testosterone the key and NOT total test?? Are there any good ratios available for FREE T/Estradiol??

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Isn't FREE testosterone the key and NOT total test?? Are there any good ratios available for FREE T/Estradiol??

Yes, it would make sense to have free T/sensitive E2 ratio but both of those parameters have had assay difficulties in the past, so no studies have been performed. Hopefully, we will see more data in the future now that both variables can be measured accurately.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

This is related to the estradiol to testosterone ratio, so higher T/E2 is better for erections.

Andrologia
. 2020 Jun 15;e13701. doi: 10.1111/and.13701. Online ahead of print.

Relationship Between Penile Erection and the Ratio of Estradiol to Testosterone: A Retrospective Study

Dong Pan 1 2, Zhi-He Xu 2, Qiang Gao 3, Ming Li 1, Yong Guan 1, Sheng-Tian Zhao 1


PMID: 32539180 DOI: 10.1111/and.13701

Abstract
Previous studies have found that the ratio of estradiol to testosterone (E2/T ratio) has a negative effect on sexual function, but the relationship between the E2/T ratio and erection of the penis is not clarified. We conducted a retrospective study of 183 patients with erectile dysfunction and 52 healthy men to investigate the relationship between penis base erection and tip erection. All participants underwent nocturnal penile tumescence tests and medical history checks and had relevant biochemical and endocrine indicators measured. The ratio of estradiol to testosterone was calculated. The relationship between E2/T ratio and erectile time of penile tip and penile base was determined by univariate analysis, multivariate analysis and stratification analysis. After adjusting for mixed factors, the results showed that the E2/T ratio had a more significant negative effect on the base of the penis compared with the tip of the penis (Hazard ratio: -4.34 95% CI: -6.52, -2.16 p = .0001). Moreover, when the effective erection time was ≥10 min, the negative effect of E2/T on penile root erection was more obvious (HR ratio: -4.46 95% CI: -6.50, -2.43 p < .0001). In summary, our study demonstrated a negative relationship between E2/T ratio and penile erection, particularly at the root of the penis.

Keywords: Rigiscan; erectile dysfunction; penile base; penile tip; the ratio of estradiol to testosterone.

 

[rayrock1]

thanks vince, whats does your e2 run with the daily protocol you have now? also is there any evidence that IM is better than SQ for aBsorption?

 

[Vince]

thanks vince, whats does your e2 run with the daily protocol you have now? also is there any evidence that IM is better than SQ for aBsorption?

No I don’t believe there’s any evidence either is better. I’ve always had low E2 levels.

 

[Vince]

thanks vince, whats does your e2 run with the daily protocol you have now? also is there any evidence that IM is better than SQ for aBsorption?

My latest labs. I’m having new ones on September 15.


Testosterone, Serum 1118 Reference Range: 264-916 ng/dL
Free Testosterone(Direct) 27.3 Reference Range: 6.6-18.1 pg/mL
Estradiol, Sensitive 19.8 Reference Range: 8.0-35.0 of/mL
SHBG 47.7 Reference Range: 19.3-76.4 nmol/L
DHEA-Sulfate 424.8 Reference Range: 30.9-295.6 ug/dL (age adjusted)
Albumin 4.3 Reference Range: 3.6-4.8 g/dL
Tru T 38.46 range 16-31 ng/dL

 

[TucsonJJ]

Vince, my DHEA was 164 before starting TRT... think I should add some... slowly... try to get levels up some?? I am thinking about a little pregnenolone too... Thx!

 

[Vince]

Vince, my DHEA was 164 before starting TRT... think I should add some... slowly... try to get levels up some?? I am thinking about a little pregnenolone too... Thx!

I would start slow, 10 mg daily should be safe.

 

[TucsonJJ]

I would start slow, 10 mg daily should be safe.

Thanks, will do... 10mg pregnenolone too... or one at a time?

 

[Vince]

Thanks, will do... 10mg pregnenolone too... or one at a time?

No, I would just start with dhea and see how it goes.