Interesting findings regarding my low SHBG after adding NDT when reviewing old labs....

[Charliebizz]

Yes, I remember exactly what I took as I keep a log of regimen of what I was taking during all my lab tests... I never tried to increase my NDT as I am afraid to fully commit to NDT/thyroid replacement doses especially due to the fact that you have to slowly build up dosages over several months which causes you to go severely hypo while waiting to guage your sweet spot if at all there even is a sweet spot for thyroid replacement..

You do not have to wait several months on t4/t3 medication. 1-2 weeks at most even days it on my Armour script

 

[BillyJ03z]

Diet and workouts didn’t change. Think it was just due to being on NDT. I know that it’s very common for SHBG to increase when on thyroid medication, but not really sure why. I’m assuming the increase in free T3 increases SHBG for some reason. Here’s my labs on 2.5 grains of NDT, and then 3 months later on no thyroid medication. SHBG went back down to baseline once I stopped taking the NDT

Your numbers are almost like mine except my Free T is at top or over range... I have been on 2 grains of NDT for the past month and taking 15mg of Test Cyp ED.... at the end of the month I will get my labs ran and see where I stand... so far no cognitive, sleep, energy improvement....

 

[Gman86]

Your numbers are almost like mine except my Free T is at top or over range... I have been on 2 grains of NDT for the past month and taking 15mg of Test Cyp ED.... at the end of the month I will get my labs ran and see where I stand... so far no cognitive, sleep, energy improvement....

Ya I saw no improvements while taking thyroid medication either. Was trying to get rid of some brain fog I had, but it had no effect. Just wanted to see if thyroid was my issue, but I don’t think it’s the cause of the brain fog. My numbers are pretty good on no thyroid medication. Was just wondering if on a receptor level I needed more free T3 activation or something.

 

[BillyJ03z]

Ya I saw no improvements while taking thyroid medication either. Was trying to get rid of some brain fog I had, but it had no effect. Just wanted to see if thyroid was my issue, but I don’t think it’s the cause of the brain fog. My numbers are pretty good on no thyroid medication. Was just wondering if on a receptor level I needed more free T3 activation or something.

Yup, and just like you my Thyroid numbers are good without NDT. I also thought my energy and brain fog was thyroid related too, but I believe it is not. However, I do feel it's easier to lose weight while taking NDT than without (go figure, smdh)... like I said, I'll see where Im at lab wise at end of month and then I'll decide from there.. IF my Thyroid numbers stay the same and my SHBG increases then I might stay on NDT for the SHBG benefit.. We'll see where it goes from here..

 

[Gman86]

Yup, and just like you my Thyroid numbers are good without NDT. I also thought my energy and brain fog was thyroid related too, but I believe it is not. However, I do feel it's easier to lose weight while taking NDT than without (go figure, smdh)... like I said, I'll see where Im at lab wise at end of month and then I'll decide from there.. IF my Thyroid numbers stay the same and my SHBG increases then I might stay on NDT for the SHBG benefit.. We'll see where it goes from here..

Any thoughts on what’s causing the low energy and brain fog now that u’ve pretty much ruled out thyroid?

 

[Vince]

We first examined the effects of daily supplementation with T3(100 nM) or T4 (100 nM) on SHBG production by HepG2 cells over the course of 5 days, by comparing medium concentrations of SHBG on days 1 and 5 of thyroid hormone treatments. This showed that T3and T4 stimulated SHBG production (P<0.001), and that T4was more effective than T3(Fig. 1A). In addition, the amount of SHBG mRNA was clearly increased in relation to the cyclophilin A mRNA control in HepG2 cells after 5 days treatment with T4, but this was not as obvious after treatment with T3

Thyroid hormones act indirectly to increase sex hormone-binding globulin production by liver via hepatocyte nuclear factor-4α

Thyroid hormones increase hepatic sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) production, which is also regulated by hepatocyte nuclear factor-4α (HNF-4α) in response to changes in the metabolic state of the liver. Since the human SHBG promoter lacks a typical thyroid hormone response element, and...

jme.bioscientifica.com

 

[BillyJ03z]

Any thoughts on what’s causing the low energy and brain fog now that u’ve pretty much ruled out thyroid?

AT this point the only thing I can think of that may be contributing to my issues is a cortisol issue... about 8 or so years ago I did do a 4 pt saliva cortisol test and it showed low AM, Low noon, avg evening, High late night.... Also, maybe LH/FSH plays a role somewhere.. I do have low DHEA as well but anytime I supplemented with DHEA and pregnenelone I felt no difference... Also, stimulants don't seem to work anymore, no kick from caffeine and I had no effect when I took adderall for a few days ( i thought it was bunk adderall and my wife took it and ended up cleaning the house, back yard, the garage, etc....) so it was just me... I think I may have a dopamine deficiency as well since I didn't respond to the adderall... Ugh..

 

[Charliebizz]

AT this point the only thing I can think of that may be contributing to my issues is a cortisol issue... about 8 or so years ago I did do a 4 pt saliva cortisol test and it showed low AM, Low noon, avg evening, High late night.... Also, maybe LH/FSH plays a role somewhere.. I do have low DHEA as well but anytime I supplemented with DHEA and pregnenelone I felt no difference... Also, stimulants don't seem to work anymore, no kick from caffeine and I had no effect when I took adderall for a few days ( i thought it was bunk adderall and my wife took it and ended up cleaning the house, back yard, the garage, etc....) so it was just me... I think I may have a dopamine deficiency as well since I didn't respond to the adderall... Ugh..

I know this isn’t the best way to boost cortisol or at least get rid of the low cortisol symptoms but it has worked for me on trt. Low dose lexapro has made a world of a difference. I legit couldn’t handle trt without it. Now I’m doing ok

 

[Gman86]

AT this point the only thing I can think of that may be contributing to my issues is a cortisol issue... about 8 or so years ago I did do a 4 pt saliva cortisol test and it showed low AM, Low noon, avg evening, High late night.... Also, maybe LH/FSH plays a role somewhere.. I do have low DHEA as well but anytime I supplemented with DHEA and pregnenelone I felt no difference... Also, stimulants don't seem to work anymore, no kick from caffeine and I had no effect when I took adderall for a few days ( i thought it was bunk adderall and my wife took it and ended up cleaning the house, back yard, the garage, etc....) so it was just me... I think I may have a dopamine deficiency as well since I didn't respond to the adderall... Ugh..

That’s so interesting, I have narrowed my brain fog down to possibly being low cortisol too! I only got one 4 pt saliva test down at the beginning of my journey, and the doctor said it was normal. Never saw the results myself. But I’ve had cortisol tested in my blood a few times, and it always runs on the low end of normal from what I remember. Haven't had it tested in a while.

The difference between me and u is that my DHEA-S level naturally is at the top end of the range, sometimes very slightly over. From my I’d understanding, DHEA and cortisol have an inverse relationship. Higher DHEA goes, lower cortisol goes. I don’t think it’s common to naturally have as high of a DHEA level as I do, which makes me think that has something to do with my brain fog. Maybe keep cortisol too low or something. It’s interesting that u have both low cortisol and low DHEA.

 

[fifty]

I have low dhea (mid 100s) and low cortisol. No brain for though for the most part.

 

[Gman86]

I have low dhea (mid 100s) and low cortisol. No brain for though for the most part.

This is actually very helpful. Have u seen low cortisol on a 4 point saliva test, or a blood test? And how low was it? So u don’t worry about the low cortisol since I feel pretty good?

 

[BillyJ03z]

I'm personally at a stand still trying to find out whats wrong with me... My DR. considered putting me on trial dose of depression meds as she thinks I may have dopamine/serotonin issues... I do find myself feeling somewhat melancholy/flat for no reason.. but I also think these feelings are because of the frustration of the way I feel with how things are going internally... I have great job, great wife, awesome kids but yet always feel flat, unmotivated, etc.... (not suicidal, lmao) just feel flat emotionally, physically, mentally...

 

[fifty]

This is actually very helpful. Have u seen low cortisol on a 4 point saliva test, or a blood test? And how low was it? So u don’t worry about the low cortisol since I feel pretty good?

It's in my thread (direct post link below). I considered taking ACE (adrenal cortex supplement) which is promoted on STTM for low cortisol but I decided against it since I have been feeling better these days.

Irritability and anxiety on Testosterone

If you haven't solved your irritability / anxiety issues you may want to test your progesterone level. Progesterone can alleviate anxiety and irritability. When a woman is going through "PMS," her progesterone levels are dropping and estrogen is beginning to dominate. A similar effect is...

www.excelmale.com

 

[AdamYoung]

I'm personally at a stand still trying to find out whats wrong with me... My DR. considered putting me on trial dose of depression meds as she thinks I may have dopamine/serotonin issues... I do find myself feeling somewhat melancholy/flat for no reason.. but I also think these feelings are because of the frustration of the way I feel with how things are going internally... I have great job, great wife, awesome kids but yet always feel flat, unmotivated, etc.... (not suicidal, lmao) just feel flat emotionally, physically, mentally...

Never play with your serotonin n dopamine. You will commit suicide without ur knowledge. Do cardio n workout, go for a long walk, talk to people n thats the best way to increase ur serotonin.

 

[Charliebizz]

Never play with your serotonin n dopamine. You will commit suicide without ur knowledge. Do cardio n workout, go for a long walk, talk to people n thats the best way to increase ur serotonin.

Little over dramatic are we ?? Hormones and nt are intertwined. You wanna talk suicide try a decent dose of clomid and tell me how you feel. I’m all about being careful but the fear monger shit with ssri and like drugs make me sick. Problem with them is drs start people way too high on them

 

[BillyJ03z]

@Gman86 when you were taking 2.5 grains NDT.. how did you dose/take them?

 

[Gman86]

@Gman86 when you were taking 2.5 grains NDT.. how did you dose/take them?

4-30-19
PROTOCOL: WP Thyroid 1.5 grains in AM, 1 grain mid day. Took 2.5 grains at 5am on lab draw day, and had labs done 12 hours later at 5pm

That’s what I have saved from my records. So looks like I was splitting the dosage everyday until the day of my labs, and took all 2.5 grains at 5am for some reason. Not sure why I took the whole dose like that. Forget my rationale

 

[BillyJ03z]

4-30-19
PROTOCOL: WP Thyroid 1.5 grains in AM, 1 grain mid day. Took 2.5 grains at 5am on lab draw day, and had labs done 12 hours later at 5pm

That’s what I have saved from my records. So looks like I was splitting the dosage everyday until the day of my labs, and took all 2.5 grains at 5am for some reason. Not sure why I took the whole dose like that. Forget my rationale

Damn... yeah.. taking the 2.5 on lab day definitely skews your actual level... I was told that you should not take anything the day of the draw and should draw early am just prior to what your first dose would be.... at least that's what I have read and have been told..

anyway... another week Im gonna draw my blood to see where Im at... Ive currently been on 2 grains for the past 1 1/2 months.... I have had no cognitive, energy improvement.. let's see if my SHBG raised...

 

[Gman86]

Damn... yeah.. taking the 2.5 on lab day definitely skews your actual level... I was told that you should not take anything the day of the draw and should draw early am just prior to what your first dose would be.... at least that's what I have read and have been told..

anyway... another week Im gonna draw my blood to see where Im at... Ive currently been on 2 grains for the past 1 1/2 months.... I have had no cognitive, energy improvement.. let's see if my SHBG raised...

Definitely report back with ur labs. Very curious where they all are on 2 grains. What brand of NDT are u using?

 

[BillyJ03z]

Definitely report back with ur labs. Very curious where they all are on 2 grains. What brand of NDT are u using?

Armour