Interesting AI blood work data

[Gman86]

So I've always heard that Exemestane has the unique properties of lowering SHBG and raising IGF-1, compared to Anastrozole. I've also heard, that 1 tab of Exemestane (25mg), is basically equivalent to 1 tab of Anastrozole (1mg). I just wanted to post some blood work I had 4 months apart from each other, while on the same Test and HCG doses. The only difference between the two blood tests was the fact that when I got the first blood work done, I was using a quarter tab of Anastrozole EOD, which is 0.25mg EOD. The second blood work, I was taking a quarter tab of Exemestane EOD, which is 6.25mg EOD. It's only a short little experiment, and this is just my personal experience obviously, but in my case at least, it seems that all the things that I heard, were true.


8-15-17
Test- 90mg/ week
HCG- 800iu/ week
Anastrozole - 0.25mg EOD

Total - 1299 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free - 146.6 (46.0-224.0)
Bio - 307.8 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 51 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 8
E2 Standard - 13
E2 Free - 0.28 (<0.45)
IGF 1 - 241 (53-331)



12-13-17
Test- 90mg/ week
HCG- 800iu/ week
Exemestane - 6.25mg EOD

Total - 974 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free - 142.6 (46.0-224.0)
Bio - 287.0 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 36 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 9
E2 Standard - 13
E2 Free - 0.28 (<0.45)
IGF 1 - 269 (53-331)


It's also kind of mind boggling to me that with 4 months in-between, and a difference of 325 in total T, and a difference of 15 in my SHBG, that my Free testosterone is basically identical on both tests. It's almost like the body has a self regulating process it implements to reach some type of homeostasis. I don't want to go too off track from the reason I posted this thread, but it's just something that shocked me, and hopefully it can help doctors learn more about the way the body regulates things while on TRT. My own theory is that during both blood tests, my total T was basically the same, but due to the lower SHBG in the second test, my total T peaked and dipped faster, hence the lower T when I had blood drawn at my trough while injecting EOD. I'm still not sure if that explains why my free T was basically identical or not though.

 

[Chopsuey]

So I've always heard that Exemestane has the unique properties of lowering SHBG and raising IGF-1, compared to Anastrozole. I've also heard, that 1 tab of Exemestane (25mg), is basically equivalent to 1 tab of Anastrozole (1mg). I just wanted to post some blood work I had 4 months apart from each other, while on the same Test and HCG doses. The only difference between the two blood tests was the fact that when I got the first blood work done, I was using a quarter tab of Anastrozole EOD, which is 0.25mg EOD. The second blood work, I was taking a quarter tab of Exemestane EOD, which is 6.25mg EOD. It's only a short little experiment, and this is just my personal experience obviously, but in my case at least, it seems that all the things that I heard, were true.


8-15-17
Test- 90mg/ week
HCG- 800iu/ week
Anastrozole - 0.25mg EOD

Total - 1299 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free - 146.6 (46.0-224.0)
Bio - 307.8 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 51 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 8
E2 Standard - 13
E2 Free - 0.28 (<0.45)
IGF 1 - 241 (53-331)



12-13-17
Test- 90mg/ week
HCG- 800iu/ week
Exemestane - 6.25mg EOD

Total - 974 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free - 142.6 (46.0-224.0)
Bio - 287.0 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 36 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 9
E2 Standard - 13
E2 Free - 0.28 (<0.45)
IGF 1 - 269 (53-331)


It's also kind of mind boggling to me that with 4 months in-between, and a difference of 325 in total T, and a difference of 15 in my SHBG, that my Free testosterone is basically identical on both tests. It's almost like the body has a self regulating process it implements to reach some type of homeostasis. I don't want to go too off track from the reason I posted this thread, but it's just something that shocked me, and hopefully it can help doctors learn more about the way the body regulates things while on TRT. My own theory is that during both blood tests, my total T was basically the same, but due to the lower SHBG in the second test, my total T peaked and dipped faster, hence the lower T when I had blood drawn at my trough while injecting EOD. I'm still not sure if that explains why my free T was basically identical or not though.

Very interesting data, I've seen before too that aromasin 25mg = 1mg tab arimidex but I've never seen data to back it up and your numbers are almost identical for e2 so thanks for posting that! The lowered SHBG but same free E2 and free test is also very interesting, and confusing!

Out of curiosity how do you feel keeping your e2 that low?

 

[Gman86]

Very interesting data, I've seen before too that aromasin 25mg = 1mg tab arimidex but I've never seen data to back it up and your numbers are almost identical for e2 so thanks for posting that! The lowered SHBG but same free E2 and free test is also very interesting, and confusing!

Out of curiosity how do you feel keeping your e2 that low?

Yes, I found that extremely interesting as well! It’s almost like the body has a self regulating system in place. Like it tries to keep homeostasis however it can, and maybe prefers things at certain levels, and can regulate different factors up and down to do so.

To answer your question, I don’t. I want my E2 levels at least 25-30, probably even higher. The first blood work, I was trying out a dose of aromasin to see where it would bring my E2. Then about 3 weeks before I was going to get labs, I realized I had been taking an old prescription of Arimidex I had in the same drawer. So I decided it was too late to switch, and I just got labs done on the Arimidex. Then I switched to aromasin, and stayed on that for a while and then got the second set of labs done. I could not believe how identical they both were, as far as E2 goes. I’ve since raised my TRT dose to 147mg/ week, and am taking aromasin at 6.25mg E5D, and am going to see where my E2 sits.

 

[Nashtide]

Interesting. Either way you were taking way too much AI! I look forward to seeing your labs after the new protocol.

 

[Gman86]

Agreed, 6.25mg EOD is definitely too much for me.

So no need to wait for the labs, I can give you them now. I’ll explain. Those two labs when I was using Arimidex and aromasin EOD, were back in August and December of last year. I’ve since changed my protocol a bunch of times. I had to change it frequently because I was going back and forth between pregnyl and Empower HCG. I’ve settled on using empower HCG from now on, to make it easier to dial in my labs. So back in October of this year is actually when I had labs done while on 140mg/ week of test, 1000iu/ week of HCG, and 6.25mg of aromasin E5D. I inject test and HCG EOD. Here’s my labs while on that protocol.


Total - 1613 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free - 230.8 (46.0-224.0)
Bioavailability - 484.7 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 44 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 58
E2 NOT Sensitive - 68
E2 Free - 1.48 (<0.45)

I then decided to try and increase aromasin to 6.25mg E3D, and keep everything else the same. I’m of the camp that if we are trying to have 18 year old testosterone levels, I want 18 year old E2 levels as well. I don’t know if I feel comfortable with E2 in the 60-70 range. The highest an 18 year old’s E2 gets is most likely around 40. So I personally would like my E2 to be around that. Around 30-50 max would be a good range for me I feel like. Symptoms wise, I didn’t have much. Definitely got too emotional during sappy movies, ive definitely had much better libido, and mood wasn’t the best. Here are my labs from 12-6-18 after having upped the aromasin frequency to 6.25mg E3D.

Total - 1324 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free - 169.5 (46.0-224.0)
Bioavailable 363.3 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 45 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 10
E2 NOT Sensitive - 15
E2 Free - 0.33 (<0.45)

So these labs through me for a loop. I have no clue why my testosterone dropped. I didn’t mess with my test or HCG dose at all. Still 140mg and 1000iu per week, split into EOD injections like I always do. Literally the only thing I’ve changed from the last blood work is eating 1/2 of a grapefruit everyday to see if it had any effect on keeping HCT within range. FYI, HCT came back at 53 on this blood work. The highest it’s ever been. So clearly that experiment was a flop. Also, it might of made my ai stronger. Grapefruit contains furanocoumarins, which block an enzyme that normally breaks down certain medications in the body. When it blocks this enzyme, medication levels can increase and act much stronger than they normally would. Not sure if it does this with aromasin, but it’s a possibility. It also could of effected my testosterone level somehow, but that’s a stretch. I’m just baffled at why it dropped so much. I literally haven’t changed anything other than implementing 1/2 a grapefruit every single day, without missing a day. So long story short, I decided to drop the grapefruit and up my test very very slightly. From 140mg to 147mg. Instead of 40mg EOD, just injecting 42mg EOD. And keeping HCG at 1000iu per week, and backing off the aromasin a little, but not completely. Going to go back to 6.25mg E5D. I have a feeling that now that I’m not eating the grapefruit, my next set of labs will have my total testosterone back at 1600-1700, which will require a tiny bit of ai. I know this because I’ve had labs done without any ai when my total was 1687, and my E2 sensitive was 73, and non sensitive was 59.

 

[Nashtide]

Agreed, 6.25mg EOD is definitely too much for me.

So no need to wait for the labs, I can give you them now. I’ll explain. Those two labs when I was using Arimidex and aromasin EOD, were back in August and December of last year. I’ve since changed my protocol a bunch of times. I had to change it frequently because I was going back and forth between pregnyl and Empower HCG. I’ve settled on using empower HCG from now on, to make it easier to dial in my labs. So back in October of this year is actually when I had labs done while on 140mg/ week of test, 1000iu/ week of HCG, and 6.25mg of aromasin E5D. I inject test and HCG EOD. Here’s my labs while on that protocol.


Total - 1613 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free - 230.8 (46.0-224.0)
Bioavailability - 484.7 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 44 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 58
E2 NOT Sensitive - 68
E2 Free - 1.48 (<0.45)

I then decided to try and increase aromasin to 6.25mg E3D, and keep everything else the same. I’m of the camp that if we are trying to have 18 year old testosterone levels, I want 18 year old E2 levels as well. I don’t know if I feel comfortable with E2 in the 60-70 range. The highest an 18 year old’s E2 gets is most likely around 40. So I personally would like my E2 to be around that. Around 30-50 max would be a good range for me I feel like. Symptoms wise, I didn’t have much. Definitely got too emotional during sappy movies, ive definitely had much better libido, and mood wasn’t the best. Here are my labs from 12-6-18 after having upped the aromasin frequency to 6.25mg E3D.

Total - 1324 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free - 169.5 (46.0-224.0)
Bioavailable 363.3 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 45 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 10
E2 NOT Sensitive - 15
E2 Free - 0.33 (<0.45)

So these labs through me for a loop. I have no clue why my testosterone dropped. I didn’t mess with my test or HCG dose at all. Still 140mg and 1000iu per week, split into EOD injections like I always do. Literally the only thing I’ve changed from the last blood work is eating 1/2 of a grapefruit everyday to see if it had any effect on keeping HCT within range. FYI, HCT came back at 53 on this blood work. The highest it’s ever been. So clearly that experiment was a flop. Also, it might of made my ai stronger. Grapefruit contains furanocoumarins, which block an enzyme that normally breaks down certain medications in the body. When it blocks this enzyme, medication levels can increase and act much stronger than they normally would. Not sure if it does this with aromasin, but it’s a possibility. It also could of effected my testosterone level somehow, but that’s a stretch. I’m just baffled at why it dropped so much. I literally haven’t changed anything other than implementing 1/2 a grapefruit every single day, without missing a day. So long story short, I decided to drop the grapefruit and up my test very very slightly. From 140mg to 147mg. Instead of 40mg EOD, just injecting 42mg EOD. And keeping HCG at 1000iu per week, and backing off the aromasin a little, but not completely. Going to go back to 6.25mg E5D. I have a feeling that now that I’m not eating the grapefruit, my next set of labs will have my total testosterone back at 1600-1700, which will require a tiny bit of ai. I know this because I’ve had labs done without any ai when my total was 1687, and my E2 sensitive was 73, and non sensitive was 59.

First, you must be rich! You get more labs than anybody I know. Second, I think you are changing protocol so often that your labs may be affected by the frequent changes. Third, your E2 is really sensitive to aromasin. Are you sure you wouldn’t be better off with anastrazole? I am with you on the range for E2. I feel best when my E2 is around 30.

 

[Gman86]

First, you must be rich! You get more labs than anybody I know. Second, I think you are changing protocol so often that your labs may be affected by the frequent changes. Third, your E2 is really sensitive to aromasin. Are you sure you wouldn’t be better off with anastrazole? I am with you on the range for E2. I feel best when my E2 is around 30.

Haha, not rich unfortunately. Maybe one day. But for some reason I got extremely lucky and my labs have always been covered 100% by my insurance, so I take full advantage! And I just have generic insurance. I applied for it through the Healthconnector, and picked a tuft’s plan. I think it’s basically Obamacare.

That’s a good point thought, the frequent changes are definitely not ideal. I thought I had myself almost perfectly dialed in. My August labs had my total and free EXACTLY where I wanted them. And E2 was a little high. So I thought upping aromasin from 6.25mg E5D to E3D was a perfect tiny adjustment that would drop my E2 just enough. Nope. Did not foresee my total T dropping, which messed up everything. The slight increase in ai frequency mixed with the dropping of my total T brought my E2 way too low.

And I might end up trying anastrozole again if I have to. But I really like aromasin due to it being newer, it being known to raise IGF-1, and it also having a reputation to lower SHBG. Which is good for me since I’m a high SHBG guy. So id prefer to stay on aromasin if possible, but I’m not completely against switching to anastrozole if I have to.

 

[Sean Mosher]

You must have a very laid back doctor too ;-)

 

[Gman86]

You must have a very laid back doctor too ;-)

Haha id say more understanding than laid back. Defy medical. Couldn’t ask for a better place to get TRT. They let me get labs pretty much however often I want. They’re the best. Couldn’t be happier with them.

 

[JRos895]

So I've always heard that Exemestane has the unique properties of lowering SHBG and raising IGF-1, compared to Anastrozole. I've also heard, that 1 tab of Exemestane (25mg), is basically equivalent to 1 tab of Anastrozole (1mg). I just wanted to post some blood work I had 4 months apart from each other, while on the same Test and HCG doses. The only difference between the two blood tests was the fact that when I got the first blood work done, I was using a quarter tab of Anastrozole EOD, which is 0.25mg EOD. The second blood work, I was taking a quarter tab of Exemestane EOD, which is 6.25mg EOD. It's only a short little experiment, and this is just my personal experience obviously, but in my case at least, it seems that all the things that I heard, were true.


8-15-17
Test- 90mg/ week
HCG- 800iu/ week
Anastrozole - 0.25mg EOD

Total - 1299 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free - 146.6 (46.0-224.0)
Bio - 307.8 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 51 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 8
E2 Standard - 13
E2 Free - 0.28 (<0.45)
IGF 1 - 241 (53-331)



12-13-17
Test- 90mg/ week
HCG- 800iu/ week
Exemestane - 6.25mg EOD

Total - 974 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free - 142.6 (46.0-224.0)
Bio - 287.0 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 36 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 9
E2 Standard - 13
E2 Free - 0.28 (<0.45)
IGF 1 - 269 (53-331)


It's also kind of mind boggling to me that with 4 months in-between, and a difference of 325 in total T, and a difference of 15 in my SHBG, that my Free testosterone is basically identical on both tests. It's almost like the body has a self regulating process it implements to reach some type of homeostasis. I don't want to go too off track from the reason I posted this thread, but it's just something that shocked me, and hopefully it can help doctors learn more about the way the body regulates things while on TRT. My own theory is that during both blood tests, my total T was basically the same, but due to the lower SHBG in the second test, my total T peaked and dipped faster, hence the lower T when I had blood drawn at my trough while injecting EOD. I'm still not sure if that explains why my free T was basically identical or not though.

@Cataceous

The above appears like support for the law of mass action approach to understanding SHBG.

 

[Cataceous]

@Cataceous

The above appears like support for the law of mass action approach to understanding SHBG.

Indeed, the data are consistent with the idea that changing SHBG affects total testosterone and not free.