Injecting test cyp eod/ed IM

[canatct]

A baseline number means nothing at all, it has zero bearing on your care once you start TRT.
The E is the part toughest to manage, once you achieve that steady state, get re-tested (TT/FT/Sens E2), and make SMALL changes from there. If you're doing EOD or ED injections, you shouldn't need an AI at any point on that kind of schedule, it's just about a "rule" unless there's another medical issue driving it, that no AI is needed with EOD/ED. People make the very common mistake of taking big swings at their meds, they feel this or they feel that and coupled with any anxiety, muck things up without ever getting to the steady state. Or lack the committment to the dosing and schedule.
There's a real fallacy to the notion that "I feel bad TODAY, so I have to do SOMETHING, TODAY, to fix it!", and that's just a path to failure with TRT.

I understand what you're saying and I agree. I know that having T at say 800 and E2 of 16 would probably make me feel like Crap. But I haven't made any changes since returning to IM last summer except for Anastrozole dosing/timing. It's the E2 sweet spot that I'm chasing. Not a number. And I still haven't found it. That's the reason I'm considering ed or eod.

 

[CoastWatcher]

There's a real fallacy to the notion that "I feel bad TODAY, so I have to do SOMETHING, TODAY, to fix it!", and that's just a path to failure with TRT.

This is such a common hole to fall in on Hormone Highway. First of all, not everything we experience physically/subjectively once we've begun TRT is related to TRT. Keep that in mind. As far as using an AI, the whole reason you're considering the transition to EOD/ED injections is to avoid the use of one. There is no hard-and-fast rule that says, "An AI must be prescribed under the following TRT protocol...", there simply isn't. You have to measure progress and stability in terms of weeks and months, not days.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Another question.
I understand the e2 fluctuations with days or weeks between injecting.
If your T reaches a steady state with ed injections that means your e2 should as well. What if that number or state causes high e2 symptoms? One would still have to use an ai, right?
I have no trouble with My total and free T. It's the e2. My baseline e2 before trt was 16 on the sensitive test, but that was with total T <300 on a 300-1000 scale. And I know how you feel trumps a number but I feel sometimes like I'm chasing Bigfoot.
I catch a glimpse every once in a while but that's about it.

Yes, you are correct, how you feel will always trump a number on a test except possibly at extremely high or low levels. You are also correct that E2 levels should be more stable along with testosterone levels with every day or every other day injections. Thus, for guys who are very sensitive to even minor swings in E2 levels, the "target" will not be as much of a "moving target"...if that makes sense. However, the question would still remain of where YOUR optimal E2 levels are, but that could be determined with gradual/incremental changes in your E2 levels by way of gradual/incremental changes in your daily or every other day testosterone dosage.

 

[canatct]

Thanks for the replies guys.
And Dr Saya I can't thank you enough for your comments. The moving target comparison is spot on.
Now... speaking of numbers I just got my lab results from 2/12 and was kinda shocked.
Total and free T numbers fell off a lot. And the ONLY change made since last labs was switching from Pfizer depo test to generic. Same injection frequency, same needle length, and injection locations.
I also tanked my e2.
But I feel confident that with Dr Saya's help I'll be on track soon.

 

[GA8314]

A baseline number means nothing at all, it has zero bearing on your care once you start TRT.
The E is the part toughest to manage, once you achieve that steady state, get re-tested (TT/FT/Sens E2), and make SMALL changes from there. If you're doing EOD or ED injections, you shouldn't need an AI at any point on that kind of schedule, it's just about a "rule" unless there's another medical issue driving it, that no AI is needed with EOD/ED. People make the very common mistake of taking big swings at their meds, they feel this or they feel that and coupled with any anxiety, muck things up without ever getting to the steady state. Or lack the committment to the dosing and schedule.
There's a real fallacy to the notion that "I feel bad TODAY, so I have to do SOMETHING, TODAY, to fix it!", and that's just a path to failure with TRT.

Excellent advice.

Is it true that overall dosage requirements may decrease over time with more frequent injections? I'm 100mg Q3.5 days, for a total of 200mg Test Cyp weekly. I've "heard" that one can often lower the total weekly dose when going to more frequent injections. That seems ideal, as does the elimination of an AI if possible.

That being said, my numbers look great right now and I feel excellent.

For whoever asked above, I also mix the HCG and Test and it seems to work just fine. I'm careful, of course, not to let any HCG into the Test vial even though plausibly that would be a sterile mixture, but I've heard it clouds up the oil if too much gets in (my buddy did that....haha).

 

[HoustonTX]

I've switched to EOD injections as well. After being on 100mgs every 3.5 days it took 8 weeks for my test levels to go down to 812 after switching to 30mg EOD. At week 4 and six my levels were roughly 1300 and 1200. I'm looking to move slowly to get that 812 to around 1000 and keep my e2 around 30-40, hopefully without anastrozole. I feel best at 1000 test and any e2 levels above 45 start to cause erection issues. How much do people usually increase there test injections by in order to make incremental changes? I would love to get people's personal experience or any other input on what they did to get dialed in

 

[GA8314]

I've switched to EOD injections as well. After being on 100mgs every 3.5 days it took 8 weeks for my test levels to go down to 812 after switching to 30mg EOD. At week 4 and six my levels were roughly 1300 and 1200. I'm looking to move slowly to get that 812 to around 1000 and keep my e2 around 30-40, hopefully without anastrozole. I feel best at 1000 test and any e2 levels above 45 start to cause erection issues. How much do people usually increase there test injections by in order to make incremental changes? I would love to get people's personal experience or any other input on what they did to get dialed in

That seems like quite a drop in dose but not a HUGE drop in Total T levels. You went from 200 mg/wk to about 120 mg/wk and your test only dropped a couple hundred points. I wonder how you'd do if you went to 40 or 45 mg EOD?

I'm assuming you don't quite feel as good on 30 mg EOD as you did on 100 mg Q3.5 days because you said your sweet spot is 1000. So, perhaps you need to increase the dose?

 

[HoustonTX]

Actually, I went from 200mg a week to 105 which has me at a test level of 812. According to several others on his website as well as Dr. Saya, doing more frequent shots requires a lot less actual testosterone as well as resulting in a more steady state with less peaks and valleys, less conversion of testosterone to estrogen, any more efficient use by your body of the testosterone you're using. My body is very sensitive to a estradiol which is just one of the reasons I decided to go to every other day injections. It's taken eight weeks for my test levels to go down to 812 after switching to EOD injections. I've recently gone up to 35mg EOD, which puts me at 119mg per week, and I feel great after 4 days. I know from past labs, I feel best at around 1000 on my test level and 30-40 on my estradiol at that test level... 45 is pushing it. Any more and erection quality goes down. So, I'm going up until I level off on a test level around 1000. That may be 35mg EOD or 40 or some other number

 

[mike7]

A baseline number means nothing at all, it has zero bearing on your care once you start TRT.
The E is the part toughest to manage, once you achieve that steady state, get re-tested (TT/FT/Sens E2), and make SMALL changes from there. If you're doing EOD or ED injections, you shouldn't need an AI at any point on that kind of schedule, it's just about a "rule" unless there's another medical issue driving it, that no AI is needed with EOD/ED. People make the very common mistake of taking big swings at their meds, they feel this or they feel that and coupled with any anxiety, muck things up without ever getting to the steady state. Or lack the committment to the dosing and schedule.
There's a real fallacy to the notion that "I feel bad TODAY, so I have to do SOMETHING, TODAY, to fix it!", and that's just a path to failure with TRT.

Solid thread and a good post. What is defined as "small" when making a dosage change? 10mg per week, or greater?