I took a peek at my Labs

[Vince]

I wonder why when I posted a thread about this same thing, I was informed do not to stop HCG as it was part of my protocol and can skew results since the protocol is a whole...

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?11739-TRT-lab-followup-Stop-HCG-days-prior-to-testing

Yes that's why when I was injecting every 3 1/2 days. I injected both T and HCG on the same day, so when I did labs, it was always on my injection for both HCG and T and could do labs before I injected both.

 

[Vince]

I just had almost the exact same results Vince. My total not quite what yours was at 940 (range 398-1197), but Free T at 37.8 (range 6.8-21.5) I feel great but Dr wants to lower to 100mg/wk.

Currently at 120mg/split 3x week and 750iu hcg/split 3x week

I tested on Mon before my injection but did inject hcg on Sat evening as usual.

Of course I'm not your doctor, but I don't think you need to lower your current protocol unless there's other issues. Defy Medical is very easy to work with, I feel fortunate to have them in my corner.

 

[codus2112]

My labs looked great everywhere else, unfortunately the places that do T replacement here are few and far between and she is kind of old school i think. Also, i think it kind of irritated her that i pointed out they were using the wrong estrogen test for men..anyway, i may add this to my thread.

Good luck and hope you get yours straightened out.

 

[FeelingLost]

My new protocol. 16mg of testosterone cypionate daily- 500iu of HCG every 3 1/2 days- DHEA 35mg after breakfast and as always no AI.
In 6 months run full labs and have consultations. We talked about running labs on my know in 3 months. If I need to make some minimal adjustment it's okay, or if needed have a new consultation.

Sounds like your phone consult went well Vince that is great. Will you need to change syringes to get an accurate 16mg? My current syringe is 1 cc/100ml.
I'm thinking of ordering 1/2cc syringes so the scale is a bit larger. My current protocol is .25 but I have a hard time telling if its .24 or .26

 

[Vince]

My labs looked great everywhere else, unfortunately the places that do T replacement here are few and far between and she is kind of old school i think. Also, i think it kind of irritated her that i pointed out they were using the wrong estrogen test for men..anyway, i may add this to my thread.

Good luck and hope you get yours straightened out.

Thanks. I rather enjoy tweaking my protocol, I feel it's a good learning experience. Hopefully things will work out with your protocol.

 

[Vince]

Sounds like your phone consult went well Vince that is great. Will you need to change syringes to get an accurate 16mg? My current syringe is 1 cc/100ml.
I'm thinking of ordering 1/2cc syringes so the scale is a bit larger. My current protocol is .25 but I have a hard time telling if its .24 or .26

No, I've tried 18mg the last two days and 16mg today. I haven't had any trouble reading the syringe. I have a extra bright light that I can use when measuring my dose.

 

[ZoomyR6]

Yes that's why when I was injecting every 3 1/2 days. I injected both T and HCG on the same day, so when I did labs, it was always on my injection for both HCG and T and could do labs before I injected both.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something. If hcg in and of itself raises T, and hcg is part of your protocol, how is skipping it the day before your labs beneficial since you won't be getting your actual T reading?
Doesn't this just skew your results since whatever your TT will be lower since you skipped when normally you would be taking hcg?

 

[FeelingLost]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something. If hcg in and of itself raises T, and hcg is part of your protocol, how is skipping it the day before your labs beneficial since you won't be getting your actual T reading?
Doesn't this just skew your results since whatever your TT will be lower since you skipped when normally you would be taking hcg?

Zoomy I don't think the rules have been written on every day injections.
Based on this info:
Testosterone Cyp (Half life 8 days) - Steady state in 40 days
Arimidex (Half life 2 days) - Steady state in 10 days
Aromasin (Half life 1 day) - Steady state in 5 days
HCG (Half life 2 days) - Steady state in 10 days.

Remember, 5 x half life of a medication = Steady state of that medication.

There is no trough for daily users. Their TT lvls probably don't swing more than 50 ng/dL.
Only CW has been doing this ED for a couple years and Vince recently started so there just isn't much info
out there yet as to what is the proper blood test method.

I'm really hoping between these two that we trust a method will be developed
an other will try and confirm. I'm excited and hoping to try ED some time in the future.

 

[ratbag]

Zoomy I don't think the rules have been written on every day injections

Yes exactly... what skews the results is the every day protocol. The big question is; will Vince feel just as good if he gets his numbers to what they were when he was doing it twice a week. Assuming of course that he does not alter his HCG dosing in an attempt to make it all equal for the labs.

 

[Vince]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something. If hcg in and of itself raises T, and hcg is part of your protocol, how is skipping it the day before your labs beneficial since you won't be getting your actual T reading?
Doesn't this just skew your results since whatever your TT will be lower since you skipped when normally you would be taking hcg?

Maybe it was wrong for me to skip my HCG injection the night before my labs. I usually do labs on Monday morning, the day I inject HCG and T. I didn't work out that way this time. I was afraid HCG might give me a spike in my T levels, so the way it worked out I'm happy I skip my HCG. Now I can feel comfortable with my new protocol.

 

[Vince]

Zoomy I don't think the rules have been written on every day injections.
Based on this info:
Testosterone Cyp (Half life 8 days) - Steady state in 40 days
Arimidex (Half life 2 days) - Steady state in 10 days
Aromasin (Half life 1 day) - Steady state in 5 days
HCG (Half life 2 days) - Steady state in 10 days.

Remember, 5 x half life of a medication = Steady state of that medication.

There is no trough for daily users. Their TT lvls probably don't swing more than 50 ng/dL.
Only CW has been doing this ED for a couple years and Vince recently started so there just isn't much info
out there yet as to what is the proper blood test method.

I'm really hoping between these two that we trust a method will be developed
an other will try and confirm. I'm excited and hoping to try ED some time in the future.

Makes a lot of sense, thanks.
One thing I'm really happy with is my HCT, even with my high T level. I don't need to donate blood, I haven't since February.

 

[Vince]

Yes exactly... what skews the results is the every day protocol. The big question is; will Vince feel just as good if he gets his numbers to what they were when he was doing it twice a week. Assuming of course that he does not alter his HCG dosing in an attempt to make it all equal for the labs.

I wondering the same thing. I'm keeping my same HCG protocol. I've been injecting 500iu of HCG twice a week for over 3 years and I'm enjoying the results.
My second day of injecting 16mg of T.

 

[HealthMan]

Vince
When you were injecting E3.5D what was your testosterone dosage and TT and FT levels?

 

[Birdman03]

I've never used finasteride and yes I'm bald. I've been slowly losing my head hair since puberty and growing it in other places. I have used minimal statin, presently Vytorin , I get the smallest tab available and cut it in quarter size. Heart disease is big in my family, both of my parents are alive after suffering heart attacks years ago. I'm 63 both of my parents will be 85 the beginning of next year, my oldest sister also suffered an heart attack.

Your lipids profile is about as good as possible. With a family history of CV disease it seems that you would have inherited a tendency toward higher-risk lipids regardless of diet. Did those family members have rock-solid numbers like yours but still have heart attacks? Possibly diabetes was the contributing factor for them instead of high cholesterol etc?

I suppose for you it is the Vytorin that is keeping your cholesterol low. Interesting.

 

[Vince]

Your lipids profile is about as good as possible. With a family history of CV disease it seems that you would have inherited a tendency toward higher-risk lipids regardless of diet. Did those family members have rock-solid numbers like yours but still have heart attacks? Possibly diabetes was the contributing factor for them instead of high cholesterol etc?

I suppose for you it is the Vytorin that is keeping your cholesterol low. Interesting.

My family has a history of bad small LDL particles, that's not checked by most doctors. Fortunately it's 2017 not 1990 and we have access to the latest technology to help stop artery plaque growth. I know my doctors want me to stop the 1/4 tab of Vytorin I take, no one takes that small amount. Because of my low carb diet, I've been able to get my lipid panel and A1C under control.

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Vince
regarding high dosages, your heart can still get enlarged ( left ventrical) and The lining of the arteries can also stiffen. Your blood can still thicken. Its just not a good idea.

Hey lexer, i have never heard of high doses of testosterone causing stiffening of the arteries before. I'd like to learn more about this. Do You have any references where you picked this up from? I have heart problems already and like to keep up on all my risk factors.

 

[Vince]

Nelson Vergel, This study claims that maintaining T levels above 550ng actually reduced cardiac disease risk. Note that they tested estradiol levels, which was lacking in the inaccurate study recently published. In addition, they found positive correlation between T levels are type 2 diabetes risk. This study was done over 5 years and analyzed all kinds of markers, including SHBG.

http://www.defymedical.com/resources...ascular-events

How Low is Too Low? Low Testosterone Health Risks​

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?1719-How-Low-is-Too-Low-Low-Testosterone-Health-Risks
​

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Nelson Vergel, This study claims that maintaining T levels above 550ng actually reduced cardiac disease risk. Note that they tested estradiol levels, which was lacking in the inaccurate study recently published. In addition, they found positive correlation between T levels are type 2 diabetes risk. This study was done over 5 years and analyzed all kinds of markers, including SHBG.

http://www.defymedical.com/resources...ascular-events

How Low is Too Low? Low Testosterone Health Risks​

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?1719-How-Low-is-Too-Low-Low-Testosterone-Health-Risks
​

Yeah, that's what I had thought too. But lexer is talking about arterial stiffness. I know you want your arteries to be less stiff. But I have never heard it discussed in relation to TRT. So I'm wondering what he's talking about.

 

[Vince]

Yeah, that's what I had thought too. But lexer is talking about arterial stiffness. I know you want your arteries to be less stiff. But I have never heard it discussed in relation to TRT. So I'm wondering what he's talking about.

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[Vince]

I also should have said that I supplement with Astaxanthin, for artery health. It's known to improve arteries elastin levels.