I found a TRT protocol that works

[UCFguy01]

Thanks for keeping us all in mind. Although I’m not in the near future considering pellets, this thread has been on my radar for some time and I may give it a go at some point down the road.

I will say that you can always go back to injections if pellets don't work. You literally can just start injecting again after the first round of pellets if they don't seem to help.

 

[JA Battle]

I will say that you can always go back to injections if pellets don't work. You literally can just start injecting again after the first round of pellets if they don't seem to help.

UFC guy, you the man. Quick few ?s. Sorry if these have been covered before on this thread about your experience with pellets;

Water retention?
Sex cardio?

also, before pellets did you have morning wood and good erectile quality just low desire? Did pellets solve all 3?

 

[Kettlebells]

I have been on topicals, pellets, and injections. Of the three, injections were the least effective. My libido dropped like a stone and never recovered, even going to twice a week injections. It made zero sense to me to inject daily when I could just use a topical. I am a low SHBG diabetic, so that could be a part of it. I have medical/prescription coverage for all three therapies, so expense is not a problem. I am back on gel, but in generic form and have seen a significant increase in libido and muscle tone coupled with an improvement in mood over the last month and an half. I personally do not believe that injections are as effective for low SHBG men as they are for men with normal SHBG levels.

 

[UCFguy01]

UFC guy, you the man. Quick few ?s. Sorry if these have been covered before on this thread about your experience with pellets;

Water retention?
Sex cardio?

also, before pellets did you have morning wood and good erectile quality just low desire? Did pellets solve all 3?

I am by no means, "The man" but thanks for your vote of confidence.

water retention: I get a little water retention but nothing very noticeable to be honest.

Cardio always seems to be better when on pellets or injections. I think it's the increase in red blood cells the higher my T gets.

Morning wood was very minimal before pellets or any TRT protocol. I get it a lot more often on injections and or pellets as long as E2 doesn't get too high.

 

[UCFguy01]

I have been on topicals, pellets, and injections. Of the three, injections were the least effective. My libido dropped like a stone and never recovered, even going to twice a week injections. It made zero sense to me to inject daily when I could just use a topical. I am a low SHBG diabetic, so that could be a part of it. I have medical/prescription coverage for all three therapies, so expense is not a problem. I am back on gel, but in generic form and have seen a significant increase in libido and muscle tone coupled with an improvement in mood over the last month and an half. I personally do not believe that injections are as effective for low SHBG men as they are for men with normal SHBG levels.

He makes a lot of good points here......^^^^^

 

[DaytonaJonah]

Good luck, I hope it works for you like it did for me. I think there are some of us where the injections (for whatever reason) aren't good for the libido. Hope you'll post your results here

Pellets were inserted yesterday. I'm managing well with the small discomfort from the incision which wasn't too bad really. Will report back after a couple weeks with how I'm feeling.

 

[bumpy]

I think the reason pellets work so well in the libido department is that he’s able to achieve supraphysiological levels of TT and FT for an extended period of time. DHT soars as well.

Perhaps FT, TT, DHT and E2 are key to a raging libido. I’m on injections and have similar numbers (my FT and TT is higher) as this guy and can attest to a raging libido as well. Something to think about. Again maybe it’s as simple as that. Raise up your TT, FT and DHT and it’s off to the races in the libido department.

Of course now we have to take into account all the other blood panels for health when we get into these ranges. I know a lot of men would risk their health to feel like gorillas again. it’s not crazy if you’ve ever been down the dark path of ED and/or low libido. It’s crushing.

 

[UCFguy01]

Pellets were inserted yesterday. I'm managing well with the small discomfort from the incision which wasn't too bad really. Will report back after a couple weeks with how I'm feeling.

Cool, I'm curious to see if your libido comes back by two weeks like mine did.

 

[UCFguy01]

I think the reason pellets work so well in the libido department is that he’s able to achieve supraphysiological levels of TT and FT for an extended period of time. DHT soars as well.

Perhaps FT, TT, DHT and E2 are key to a raging libido. I’m on injections and have similar numbers (my FT and TT is higher) as this guy and can attest to a raging libido as well. Something to think about. Again maybe it’s as simple as that. Raise up your TT, FT and DHT and it’s off to the races in the libido department.

Of course now we have to take into account all the other blood panels for health when we get into these ranges. I know a lot of men would risk their health to feel like gorillas again. it’s not crazy if you’ve ever been down the dark path of ED and/or low libido. It’s crushing.

Maybe you're right, who knows. But...... I could jack up my levels on injections and even that never seemed to increase libido. My total T was 1,750 on one particular blood draw on injections but still libido was never really there.

As far as having high levels..... if you're blood pressure is good, hematocrit is not high, and you're not growing boobs from high E2..... what's the issue with high levels. I never get an answer on here from anyone. I think the horror stories come from people stacking multiple anabolics and not keeping an eye on blood pressure and hematocrit and they die of heart attack.

My doc has been on testosterone for 35 years and he's jacked. I guarantee he's doing 300mg a week at least. No BP issues, no hematocrit issues and he keeps an eye on his E2. I'd bet that his total T levels are around 2,000.

I honestly think he's going to outlive us all, lol. My guess is that there were people 1,000 years ago probably had 1,500 total testosterone naturally. They had better food, no plastics, less stress. I think the human race is constantly lowering the median range for T based off of population which is gradually becoming lower and lower in testosterone levels.

Another example I was thinking about.....the Greek and Roman statues are of Old dudes who are ripped. They look like body builders. And if you say it's just a statue and it was made to look stronger, then how did they know what a body builder looked like back then? There was no steroids back then. They had to carve them based on what they saw right? I bet there were a lot of really muscular men back then who had extremely high natural testosterone levels.

 

[Gman86]

Maybe you're right, who knows. But...... I could jack up my levels on injections and even that never seemed to increase libido. My total T was 1,750 on one particular blood draw on injections but still libido was never really there.

As far as having high levels..... if you're blood pressure is good, hematocrit is not high, and you're not growing boobs from high E2..... what's the issue with high levels. I never get an answer on here from anyone. I think the horror stories come from people stacking multiple anabolics and not keeping an eye on blood pressure and hematocrit and they die of heart attack.

My doc has been on testosterone for 35 years and he's jacked. I guarantee he's doing 300mg a week at least. No BP issues, no hematocrit issues and he keeps an eye on his E2. I'd bet that his total T levels are around 2,000.

I honestly think he's going to outlive us all, lol. My guess is that there were people 1,000 years ago probably had 1,500 total testosterone naturally. They had better food, no plastics, less stress. I think the human race is constantly lowering the median range for T based off of population which is gradually becoming lower and lower in testosterone levels.

Another example I was thinking about.....the Greek and Roman statues are of Old dudes who are ripped. They look like body builders. And if you say it's just a statue and it was made to look stronger, then how did they know what a body builder looked like back then? There was no steroids back then. They had to carve them based on what they saw right? I bet there were a lot of really muscular men back then who had extremely high natural testosterone levels.

The answer is that as long as u stay on top of everything, while having total T levels around 1500-2500, or even 3000, u’ll be fine. All that happens when u get around 2000+ is that u have to be more strict with ur lifestyle choices to maintain health. But it’s relatively easy as long as u know what ur doing. Staying within a more reasonable level of testosterone just makes it easier to maintain health, and u can be a little more loose with ur lifestyle choices. But life’s about being happy first and foremost. And for some guys feeling really good and looking really good allows them to enjoy life to a much higher degree, so for them running higher levels, and making it a little harder to maintain perfect health markers is worth it. Guys that judge other men for favoring how they look and feel to a certain degree over health are just not very empathetic people, and are just very judgmental, and can’t see things from other people’s perspectives. They just base everything off of themselves as a reference point. But at the end of the day, u just have to find the perfect balance of happiness and health that works for u, and not let others opinions bother u. Some people prefer to eat crappy food, and drink alcohol, and sacrifice their health in those ways, because it makes them happy, but we don’t say anything about that. But if a guy feels great and looks great with a total T of 2000, he gets attacked like he did something personally to the men judging him. It’s just silliness. Eating crappy food is going to be way more detrimental to ur health than having a test level between 2000-3000. But anyways, just do whatever makes u happy at the end of the day, and ignore people that can’t see things from other’s perspectives. Guys on multiple synthetic injectable AAS, as well as orals, both at very high doses, and not monitoring blood markers properly, is not even close to the same thing as a guy on HRT preferring slightly higher T levels than the average guy

 

[bumpy]

Maybe you're right, who knows. But...... I could jack up my levels on injections and even that never seemed to increase libido. My total T was 1,750 on one particular blood draw on injections but still libido was never really there.

As far as having high levels..... if you're blood pressure is good, hematocrit is not high, and you're not growing boobs from high E2..... what's the issue with high levels. I never get an answer on here from anyone. I think the horror stories come from people stacking multiple anabolics and not keeping an eye on blood pressure and hematocrit and they die of heart attack.

My doc has been on testosterone for 35 years and he's jacked. I guarantee he's doing 300mg a week at least. No BP issues, no hematocrit issues and he keeps an eye on his E2. I'd bet that his total T levels are around 2,000.

I honestly think he's going to outlive us all, lol. My guess is that there were people 1,000 years ago probably had 1,500 total testosterone naturally. They had better food, no plastics, less stress. I think the human race is constantly lowering the median range for T based off of population which is gradually becoming lower and lower in testosterone levels.

Another example I was thinking about.....the Greek and Roman statues are of Old dudes who are ripped. They look like body builders. And if you say it's just a statue and it was made to look stronger, then how did they know what a body builder looked like back then? There was no steroids back then. They had to carve them based on what they saw right? I bet there were a lot of really muscular men back then who had extremely high natural testosterone levels.

There is nothing worse than having no libido and/or ED. It is crushing and I've been there. Your manhood is stripped from you and it is not a good place to be in psychologically. From reading your thread I'm sure you can relate to what I'm saying or at least partially relate.

With that said, I am 100% in the camp that if you feel great with supraphysiological levels of TT, FT and DHT and the rest of your blood panels are good then why not? Living a life feeling like garbage is very troublesome and not fun at all.

I've experimented with so many different dosages that I could fill this entire page up. Anything higher than 250mgs/week, I get bloated and generally feel "off". I think some people just need higher (or even lower) levels to feel great all the way around. Some are good at X, some are good Y and some are good at (go all the way down the alphabet).

I'm interested to see if pellets help other men like it helped you. If it does then the genius minds here need to figure out what is so different about pellets than injections. The search for answers never ends hahaha.

 

[bumpy]

The answer is that as long as u stay on top of everything, while having total T levels around 1500-2500, or even 3000, u’ll be fine. All that happens when u get around 2000+ is that u have to be more strict with ur lifestyle choices to maintain health. But it’s relatively easy as long as u know what ur doing. Staying within a more reasonable level of testosterone just makes it easier to maintain health, and u can be a little more loose with ur lifestyle choices. But life’s about being happy first and foremost. And for some guys feeling really good and looking really good allows them to enjoy life to a much higher degree, so for them running higher levels, and making it a little harder to maintain perfect health markers is worth it. Guys that judge other men for favoring how they look and feel to a certain degree over health are just not very empathetic people, and are just very judgmental, and can’t see things from other people’s perspectives. They just base everything off of themselves as a reference point. But at the end of the day, u just have to find the perfect balance of happiness and health that works for u, and not let others opinions bother u. Some people prefer to eat crappy food, and drink alcohol, and sacrifice their health in those ways, because it makes them happy, but we don’t say anything about that. But if a guy feels great and looks great with a total T of 2000, ge gets attacked like he did something personally to the men judging him. It’s just silliness. Eating crappy food is going to be way more detrimental to ur health than having a test level between 2000-3000. But anyways, just do whatever makes u happy at the end of the day, and ignore people that can’t see things from other’s perspectives. Guys on multiple synthetic steroids, as well as orals, both at very high doses, and not monitoring blood markers properly, is not even close to the same thing as a guy on HRT preferring slightly higher T levels than the average guy

EXCELLENT POST GMAN!! Could not agree more. Bravo!!

 

[UCFguy01]

There is nothing worse than having no libido and/or ED. It is crushing and I've been there. Your manhood is stripped from you and it is not a good place to be in psychologically. From reading your thread I'm sure you can relate to what I'm saying or at least partially relate.

With that said, I am 100% in the camp that if you feel great with supraphysiological levels of TT, FT and DHT and the rest of your blood panels are good then why not? Living a life feeling like garbage is very troublesome and not fun at all.

I've experimented with so many different dosages that I could fill this entire page up. Anything higher than 250mgs/week, I get bloated and generally feel "off". I think some people just need higher (or even lower) levels to feel great all the way around. Some are good at X, some are good Y and some are good at (go all the way down the alphabet).

I'm interested to see if pellets help other men like it helped you. If it does then the genius minds here need to figure out what is so different about pellets than injections. The search for answers never ends hahaha.

True, I'm curious to see if it helps others too. It has to be something causing the difference. I keep going back to how the pellets slowly ramp up your T and then they ramp back down slowly vs. Injections which kind of spike up your levels in the next day or two. That gradual raising and lowering seems like it has something to do with it.

 

[Gman86]

EXCELLENT POST GMAN!! Could not agree more. Bravo!!

Appreciate that. Just want to say that u’ve been a great contribution to this forum recently. Really like what u bring to the table and how u communicate and ur POV’s on things. Hopefully u continue to contribute for years to come. U’ve been a great addition. Also, even tho this is an HRT forum, don’t be afraid to talk about ur past experiences with steroids. Plenty of guys here have used them in the past, and talk about their past experiences. There’s a lot of carry over between compounds, so urs, as well as their experiences, and things they have learned while juicing, can really help members here in ways other guys that haven’t juiced cant. Don’t pay any mind to one member trying to scare u or reprimand u. This is a really open minded forum, with a lot of open minded and progressive members, for the most part.

 

[UCFguy01]

..... what he said ^^^^^^^^

 

[bumpy]

Appreciate that. Just want to say that u’ve been a great contribution to this forum recently. Really like what u bring to the table and how u communicate and ur POV’s on things. Hopefully u continue to contribute for years to come. U’ve been a great addition. Also, even tho this is an HRT forum, don’t be afraid to talk about ur past experiences with steroids. Plenty of guys here have used them in the past, and talk about their past experiences. There’s a lot of carry over between compounds, so urs, as well as their experiences, and things they have learned while juicing, can really help members here in ways other guys that haven’t juiced cant. Don’t pay any mind to one member trying to scare u or reprimand u. This is a really open minded forum, with a lot of open minded and progressive members, for the most part.

Thank you for the kind words Gman. Much appreciated.

I really like this forum and I do have decades of experience with a lot of different compounds ie AAS. I’m not a gym bro, meaning a big bodybuilder or power lifter. I have enhanced my physique to where I am very muscular and lean. Training for me is about health but I do enjoy the benefits (and there are many) to an enhanced physique.

With that said I don’t want to get banned from here. This has quickly become my favorite forum. The members here are some of the brightest minds in this field I’ve ever witnessed (you included). I just need to know where that line is so I don’t cross it and get banned.

Thanks again Gman your post to Ufcguy really hit home for me.

 

[Gman86]

Thank you for the kind words Gman. Much appreciated.

I really like this forum and I do have decades of experience with a lot of different compounds ie AAS. I’m not a gym bro, meaning a big bodybuilder or power lifter. I have enhanced my physique to where I am very muscular and lean. Training for me is about health but I do enjoy the benefits (and there are many) to an enhanced physique.

With that said I don’t want to get banned from here. This has quickly become my favorite forum. The members here are some of the brightest minds in this field I’ve ever witnessed (you included). I just need to know where that line is so I don’t cross it and get banned.

Thanks again Gman your post to Ufcguy really hit home for me.

Don’t worry about getting banned. Nelson understands that steroids were all created to have specific medical benefits, and that just because there’s bodybuilders out there using them irresponsibly, it doesn’t make them bad or something that we can’t discuss here. We can discuss them all we want, it just has to be in regards to how these compounds can benefit men, and women, on HRT. U can also talk about ur past use, if it is gonna help someone here dial their protocol in, or prevent them from dabbling in things that maybe won’t serve them the way they think they will, even when they’re legal and can be prescribed in an HRT setting. There’s a lot of benefits to having knowledge and experience with a lot of these compounds, and the pros and cons of using them, and issues that someone may end up running into down the road, such as how specific compounds can negatively impact certain health markers in bloodwork, for example. The only thing u really can’t do here, is talk about a current cycle ur running. Other than that don’t worry about getting banned. Like I said, Nelson is very open minded and understanding, u got nothing to worry about. Ur clearly here for the right reasons.

 

[madman]

The answer is that as long as u stay on top of everything, while having total T levels around 1500-2500, or even 3000, u’ll be fine. All that happens when u get around 2000+ is that u have to be more strict with ur lifestyle choices to maintain health. But it’s relatively easy as long as u know what ur doing. Staying within a more reasonable level of testosterone just makes it easier to maintain health, and u can be a little more loose with ur lifestyle choices. But life’s about being happy first and foremost. And for some guys feeling really good and looking really good allows them to enjoy life to a much higher degree, so for them running higher levels, and making it a little harder to maintain perfect health markers is worth it. Guys that judge other men for favoring how they look and feel to a certain degree over health are just not very empathetic people, and are just very judgmental, and can’t see things from other people’s perspectives. They just base everything off of themselves as a reference point. But at the end of the day, u just have to find the perfect balance of happiness and health that works for u, and not let others opinions bother u. Some people prefer to eat crappy food, and drink alcohol, and sacrifice their health in those ways, because it makes them happy, but we don’t say anything about that. But if a guy feels great and looks great with a total T of 2000, he gets attacked like he did something personally to the men judging him. It’s just silliness. Eating crappy food is going to be way more detrimental to ur health than having a test level between 2000-3000. But anyways, just do whatever makes u happy at the end of the day, and ignore people that can’t see things from other’s perspectives. Guys on multiple synthetic injectable AAS, as well as orals, both at very high doses, and not monitoring blood markers properly, is not even close to the same thing as a guy on HRT preferring slightly higher T levels than the average guy

So which is it all about balance that you preach or running levels to your heart's content?

Preaching it is all about balance when you very well know your protocol plays no part in such.

You should be the last person to dishing out advice on AAS use.

You were already caught up on that more T is better herd mentality from the get-go!

Spend too much time on those bro forums.

Swayed easily.....gullible to say the least

This is coming from a guy who has absolutely no idea where his FT level truly sits.




The answer is that as long as u stay on top of everything, while having total T levels around 1500-2500, or even 3000, u’ll be fine. All that happens when u get around 2000+ is that u have to be more strict with ur lifestyle choices to maintain health. But it’s relatively easy as long as u know what ur doing.

All that happens.....eh?

If it were so simple to state....u’ll be fine. All that happens when u get around 2000+ is that u have to be more strict with ur lifestyle choices to maintain health.....you are definitely out to lunch on this one!

No one can say for sure what the negative long-term effects may be on cardiovascular health let alone neurosteroids/CNS will be from running 2000-3000+ ng/dL T levels indefinitely.

Not only have we shut down the HPG-axis through the use of exogenous T but more importantly many are forcing T levels well beyond what the body could or would ever produce endogenously let alone in their PRIME (early teens/the late 20s).

Top it off that these are steady-state levels 24/7!

Nothing about balance going on here.

Going against your body chemistry/genetics.....plain and f**king simple.




But life’s about being happy first and foremost. And for some guys feeling really good and looking really good allows them to enjoy life to a much higher degree, so for them running higher levels, and making it a little harder to maintain perfect health markers is worth it.

Sure is!

Unfortunately running such absurd levels 2000+ ng/dL has nothing to do with trt/hrt let alone maintaining long-term health.



Eating crappy food is going to be way more detrimental to ur health than having a test level between 2000-3000.

There we go again!




But anyways, just do whatever makes u happy at the end of the day, and ignore people that can’t see things from other’s perspectives.

Most definitely.....as I have stated many times on here.....do what is best for you.




Guys on multiple synthetic injectable AAS, as well as orals, both at very high doses, and not monitoring blood markers properly, is not even close to the same thing as a guy on HRT preferring slightly higher T levels than the average guy

Slightly higher T levels 2000+ ng/dL let alone steady-state .....LMFAO!

What healthy young male in his prime (late teens/the early 20s) let alone decades ago was hitting such?

 

[madman]

Thank you for the kind words Gman. Much appreciated.

I really like this forum and I do have decades of experience with a lot of different compounds ie AAS. I’m not a gym bro, meaning a big bodybuilder or power lifter. I have enhanced my physique to where I am very muscular and lean. Training for me is about health but I do enjoy the benefits (and there are many) to an enhanced physique.

With that said I don’t want to get banned from here. This has quickly become my favorite forum. The members here are some of the brightest minds in this field I’ve ever witnessed (you included). I just need to know where that line is so I don’t cross it and get banned.

Thanks again Gman your post to Ufcguy really hit home for me.

No one is going to get banned.

Absolutely nothing wrong with speaking about your past experiences (AAS use/abuse).

This is a men's health/hrt forum and we do not discuss current use/abuse of testosterone/AAS with regards to cycling, blasting/cruising for the sole purpose of muscle enhancement.

Numerous steroid forums littered on the internet to entertain such.

Stick around and you will see that Excel Male is in its own lane when it comes to hrt/men's health-related topics.

 

[bumpy]

Speaking on supraphysiological Test levels do we even know what early Homo sapiens levels were?

Is it crazy to hypothesize they could have had test levels well into the 2000’s and we are merely “getting by” due to living in a civilized modern society. Meaning through evolution we don’t need such high test levels due to our more social nature put upon us as part of living in a modern society.

We see it in primates. Bonobos for instance don’t have as much testosterone due to their more social nature. Male chimps on the other hand have crazy high hormone levels because they aren’t as social and they often resort to killing other chimps to solve problems. They are quite violent primates.

Maybe we are fixated on TT and FT levels via TRT that do not serve us well. Maybe We are woefully “low” when it comes to levels that helped early man stay lean, strong, aggressive (in a good way for hunting etc) and with sex drives that enabled them to ravish women or men (full consent lol) all day long?

I don’t know. Perhaps our hormones have changed and/or adapted to living as civilized human beings and it is all to our detriment. Did our grandparents, great grandparents etc deal with low Test? Maybe? Maybe not? I wonder how far back male hormone levels were tracked. When did these tests come available and are we in fact continuing a steep decline in male hormone levels? What are healthy good numbers that everyone should strive for to get us back to feeling whole? Whole as in a sense of well being with a libido that is off the charts.

I know where my numbers are and I feel the best I’ve ever felt. A little distracting, ok a lot, with a crazy high libido but the other side of that coin isn’t where I ever want to be again.