HUGE DROP IN LIPID MARKERS - why?

[mcs]

I updated 2 lipid tests both drawn at same day/time:
STANDARD PANEL and the ADVANCED PANEL 1 (with ref ranges) and ADVANCED PANEL 2 (historical graphs)

Here’s a comparison with PREVIOUS STANDARD PANEL and PREVIOUS ADVANCED PANEL.

With this comparison, you can now see how misleading standard lipid profiles are!

My TC, LDL-C, trigs have not been that low since 1988.

Unfortunately, HDL took a nose dive as well.

The question is - why the precipitous drop across the board?

Could it all be because I had fasted for ~ 15h prior to the draw and my levels dropped due to lipid clearance? This was 3h more than on the last draw.
Or maybe the drop is from more aggressive use of certain targeted supps (like Bergamet, sustained-release niacin, pantethine)?

What doesn’t make sense: having been on a all-organic whole foods LCHF/keto diet + omega 3’s + using those supps are all supposed to increase HDL and reduce LDL-P, etc.

Despite the drops, my advanced panel stubbornly still shows the same old dyslipidemic results as seen on my last advanced panel:

• elevated LDL-P
• depressed HDL-C
• elevated APO-B
• elevated sdLDL-C
• elevated hsCRP

Aren’t these markers likely the driving forces (especially LDL-P and APO-B) behind progression of one’s CAC score, so highly important to focus on?

As you can see, though my TC dropped, LDL-P went up!

My latest thyroid labs show an elevated TSH but normalFT3/FT4, but will a suppressed TSH be relevant when it comes to lipids?

Could it be that no matter what we do to manipulate the diet, etc., genetic variants will predetermine which people will be overly sensitive to saturated fat? I mean, there’s not much we can do diet, medication or exercise-wise in the case with manipulating a bad actor like Lp(a) to any considerable degree.

 

[Neil]

If you were to consult with an MD or lipid guru, they would probably advise adding a statin to not only lower LDL, and it would lower overall particle numbers. But, my take is that you are pattern "A", so most likely in no danger. You could do a heart scan to see if you have coronary plaque.

How much niacin are you taking? I've been taking 1,000mg Rugby crystalline niacin at bedtime for a decade (at times, it's a little brutal), my last blood draw was LDL 119, HDL 60, and Tri 81. Typically my LDL is around 100, but I've been on a KETO diet, so I think that's what's increasing it.

I've found that I can easily modulate my LDL to any number I want with a combination of Now Brand Taurine and Doctor's Best Curcumin- no statin needed. By adding the taurine M-W-F and the curcumin twice a day, it will make my LDL go down to about 80. The taurine does darken the stool, I don't know why it does that.

But anyway, I don't feel as well, as mentally sharp when my LDL is that low, so I haven't been continuing to do that. Anyway, with fish oil, niacin, curcumin, and taurine (and others), you can affect changes that are normally associated with pharma drugs like statins.

 

[mcs]

If you were to consult with an MD or lipid guru, they would probably advise adding a statin to not only lower LDL, and it would lower overall particle numbers. But, my take is that you are pattern "A", so most likely in no danger. You could do a heart scan to see if you have coronary plaque.

How much niacin are you taking? I've been taking 1,000mg Rugby crystalline niacin at bedtime for a decade (at times, it's a little brutal), my last blood draw was LDL 119, HDL 60, and Tri 81. Typically my LDL is around 100, but I've been on a KETO diet, so I think that's what's increasing it.

I've found that I can easily modulate my LDL to any number I want with a combination of Now Brand Taurine and Doctor's Best Curcumin- no statin needed. By adding the taurine M-W-F and the curcumin twice a day, it will make my LDL go down to about 80. The taurine does darken the stool, I don't know why it does that.

But anyway, I don't feel as well, as mentally sharp when my LDL is that low, so I haven't been continuing to do that. Anyway, with fish oil, niacin, curcumin, and taurine (and others), you can affect changes that are normally associated with pharma drugs like statins.

Statins actually worsen Lp(a), do nothing to reduce particle number, it's debatale whether they reduce plaque and have a ton of deleterious side effects. The only benefit is reduction in inflammation and some anti-coagulant effects. Lowering LDL-C is not the issue. If I have to resort to pharma, there are much better drugs out now (i.e. PCSK9i, Nexleletol), but you're right; docs will dole them out like candy. But those docs aren't gurus. They are sick care docs practicing obsolete science.

1.5g extended-release niacin/day right now. I take taurine/curcumin as well, but I haven't seen any effect on lipids, though I see there is some science on it.

Genetic variants are what's left as the only factors that I can think of causing reistance to dietary/supplement/exercise intervention. That's where non-statin meds would have to play a part potentially. I still don't know how I affected that much of a drop in TC and trigs in just 30 days or so.

 

[Dicky]

Your LDL cholesterol is not too bad considering you are doing keto. My wife's LDL went from under 100 to over 200 on keto.

 

[mcs]

Your LDL cholesterol is not too bad considering you are doing keto. My wife's LDL went from under 100 to over 200 on keto.

LDL-C is a meaningless number which is why standard lipid panels are essentially worthless (and misleading) other than trigs. It's sdLDL-C that is the relevant marker and is still the problem.

 

[Vince]

Cleveland Heart Clinic Labs

I was just wondering if anyone uses Cleveland Heart Labs http://www.knowyourrisk.com/ My clinic http://advlip.com/ will now be using them for all Labs. Will also check my LDL oxidation. CHL is a spinoff of Cleveland Clinic, I know they do all the advanced tests and I believe they actually...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Unfortunately, HDL took a nose dive as well.

What's your testosterone, nandrolone, oxandrolone, or any other hormone protocol?

 

[mcs]

What's your testosterone, nandrolone, oxandrolone, or any other hormone protocol?

Only taking DHEA, pregnenolone, thyroid replacement.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Only taking DHEA, pregnenolone, thyroid replacement.

Thyroid dosing has a huge impact on lipids.

 

[mcs]

Thyroid dosing has a huge impact on lipids.

Well aware of that. Here's my thyroid post. FT3 an FT4 in range, TSH elevated. Can't figure out why.

 

[xcpatr922]

LDL-C is a meaningless number which is why standard lipid panels are essentially worthless (and misleading) other than trigs. It's sdLDL-C that is the relevant marker and is still the problem.

I would not say it's meaningless. We know it's ApoB and sd-LDLC that really atherogenics but if the HDL is high enough even sd-LDLC doesn't really matter. Also for most people the proportion between ApoB and LDL is usually parallel. I no longer ordered Advanced Panel as at the end of the day either the meds or supplementation remains the same.

Also I don't think cholesterol is something that can be felt except in rare case. I don't see differences when LDL was 200 and currently only 40. Very different with blood sugar.

 

[mcs]

I would not say it's meaningless. We know it's ApoB and sd-LDLC that really atherogenics but if the HDL is high enough even sd-LDLC doesn't really matter. Also for most people the proportion between ApoB and LDL is usually parallel. I no longer ordered Advanced Panel as at the end of the day either the meds or supplementation remains the same.

Also I don't think cholesterol is something that can be felt except in rare case. I don't see differences when LDL was 200 and currently only 40. Very different with blood sugar.

My HDL has never been above 55 in 30 years no matter what I've done with diet and supps. If what you say is true, then my sd-LDLC and APOB are contributing to a slow progression of plaque (I had a CAC score of 0 in 2014, then 9 in 2018, now 28). At this point, I don't know what else to do except look at non-statin meds like PCSK9i and bempedoic acid. LCHF may actually be detrimental in my case due to certain genetics. Also, I still think my TSH levels not being dialed in may contribute to my lipid numbers, despite being on dessicated thyroid and my T3/T4 being normal, no Hashi's.

When you say you don't see differences in LDL levels and it's different with blood sugar, what do you mean?

 

[xcpatr922]

My HDL has never been above 55 in 30 years no matter what I've done with diet and supps. If what you say is true, then my sd-LDLC and APOB are contributing to a slow progression of plaque (I had a CAC score of 0 in 2014, then 9 in 2018, now 28). At this point, I don't know what else to do except look at non-statin meds like PCSK9i and bempedoic acid. LCHF may actually be detrimental in my case due to certain genetics. Also, I still think my TSH levels not being dialed in may contribute to my lipid numbers, despite being on dessicated thyroid and my T3/T4 being normal, no Hashi's.

When you say you don't see differences in LDL levels and it's different with blood sugar, what do you mean?

Your CAC score is already pretty good, even statin is not really necessary in your case. The Increase is very little. My CAC case is much higher than you originally and I know I need statin. Maybe I need statin 10 years ago. Many folks in any forum blindly saying statin not needed or too much side effect to everyone is the wrong approach I believe as some folks "really really really" need statin. At the very least, inflammation dropped to virtually nothing.

Some folks are too much into placebo/nocebo.

With blood sugar, I can feel the differences when my BG is spiking up and crashing. Confirmed with CGM. My body is very sensitive to BG when I eat carbs.

Meanwhile with cholesterol, regardless the LDL-C is 180, 200 or even 40 like today. There's no difference that I can feel. I have zero side effect with statin. Testosterone or any other meds has more impact compared to Statin. Currently my HDL is greater than LDL-C. I know how to do it. I have zero side effect so far. Don't see a problem.