HPTA restart

[Cynice49]

hello everyone,

i wanted to create this thread to ask for some advice and thoughts on my hpta restart progress. for a little background: i am a 29 year old male and i have been on trt + (hcg in and off) for about 6 years. throughout this time, i have experienced some side effect, such as heart pounding, anxiety, etc. i have done multiple dosing regimens with my last regimen being 10mg daily test c only for about 1 year. my total T was around 600 ; free T 18 ; and SHBG 18, but i still couldnt find a protocol that worked well. i have always had anxiety, but trt made it much worse. + i had experienced high blood pressure , even with normalization of hct and e2.

so coming off, i did 2 week of hcg 500iu TID for two week then 12.5mg enclo for 4 weeks. it has now been about 5 months since my last test injection and i recieved my blood work

LH 4.6
FSH 2.6
T TEST 267 ng
FREE TEST: 56.4 pg
estradiol ultrasentive: 14
unfortunately, i do still experience this anxiety (was it ever from trt?) , low libido , sore joints etc. i feel as though my i have had some recovery, but i wanted to ask your guys thoughts. should i conitnue another round of enclo? thoughts on my test raising any higher than where it is?

thank you everyone jn advance

 

[Systemlord]

i still couldnt find a protocol that worked well. i have always had anxiety, but trt made it much worse.

What was your ferritin levels on TRT?

 

[Cynice49]

What was your ferritin levels on TRT?

between 100-130 when tested

 

[TLR]

I had pre existing anxiety issues that were under control with 50 mg of Zoloft daily….once I started TRT I noticed an uptick in anxiety symptoms along with a weird social anxiety that had never been part of my symptoms before….I would like to tell you I know exactly why this happens to some people, but I don’t think ANYONE does for sure….the interplay between hormones, neurotransmitters, genetics, etc is not well understood despite what some people will say.

The only thing I know for sure is it is well known that exogenous androgens can cause or worsen anxiety in a subset of persons. I tried two “restarts” with HCG and Clomid and both failed to restore my natural production. It did reduce my anxiety, but it was still there. I finally stopped being afraid to try lower doses and have found a space that is a decent trade off, sparing me from hypogonadism symptoms and keeping anxiety at a manageable level. I do take an SSRI and a benzodiazepine, and will likely be taking them the rest of my life (cue the “benzos are the devil” folks that will start up, but that is a different conversation that has been beaten to death).

I don’t know what your levels were before starting TRT, but it doesn’t look like you responded well to the restart. Seek out a GOOD doctor and good luck.

 

[Cynice49]

I had pre existing anxiety issues that were under control with 50 mg of Zoloft daily….once I started TRT I noticed an uptick in anxiety symptoms along with a weird social anxiety that had never been part of my symptoms before….I would like to tell you I know exactly why this happens to some people, but I don’t think ANYONE does for sure….the interplay between hormones, neurotransmitters, genetics, etc is not well understood despite what some people will say.

The only thing I know for sure is it is well known that exogenous androgens can cause or worsen anxiety in a subset of persons. I tried two “restarts” with HCG and Clomid and both failed to restore my natural production. It did reduce my anxiety, but it was still there. I finally stopped being afraid to try lower doses and have found a space that is a decent trade off, sparing me from hypogonadism symptoms and keeping anxiety at a manageable level. I do take an SSRI and a benzodiazepine, and will likely be taking them the rest of my life (cue the “benzos are the devil” folks that will start up, but that is a different conversation that has been beaten to death).

I don’t know what your levels were before starting TRT, but it doesn’t look like you responded well to the restart. Seek out a GOOD doctor and good luck.

thank you for the reply

i thankfully have been able to manage without any psych meds at this time. again, ive always had some underlying anxiety even as a kid , and ive been on trt for quite awhile, so its hard to remember whether the anxiety is worse now or worse prior to trt

my levels prior were about 450, but honestly my testing prior was not the best. i was rx by a uro, and i was only tested with total test, nothing else. so id love to be able to come off and see where i could recover too…. so hoping to get some advice and see where i coud recover too

 

[TLR]

thank you for the reply

i thankfully have been able to manage without any psych meds at this time. again, ive always had some underlying anxiety even as a kid , and ive been on trt for quite awhile, so its hard to remember whether the anxiety is worse now or worse prior to trt

my levels prior were about 450, but honestly my testing prior was not the best. i was rx by a uro, and i was only tested with total test, nothing else. so id love to be able to come off and see where i could recover too…. so hoping to get some advice and see where i coud recover too

In my experience and from what my doc told me when I tried to go off the second time, after 4-6 weeks of a recovery protocol you are not likely to see any improvement from where you are….it just depends on how you feel and whether that is good enough for you. I’m convinced some guys can get by with lower natural levels that most others would look at and automatically say “you need to be on TRT.” This forum is a good source of generally sound information, but I will tell you if you try to follow every piece of advice here (or any other forum) you will be like a blind dog in a meat market running around in circles. Everyone is different and there is no universal answer that fits everyone….

 

[Belekas]

Hi mate.

Sorry to hear you are going through this but let me tell you, you are not alone. Some of us just can't tolerate testosterone for some reasons that are still not understood. While others can pin 250mg once a week, if they forget once a month and feel absolutely fine with normal bp readings, low to none anxiety and good looking blood markers.

I'm also going through hell right now with 3rd week of elevated bp, anxiety and feeling like a hot pile of crap. Add some daily headaches on top of that and I got myself a real "party" going on here. I will share my data but first I'd like to hear what kind of protocols have you tried and on which of them you felt the best?

I started ~1yr ago with a TT level of 450 iirc and cFT borderline low. Libido and erections were fine and I felt pretty good before pulling the trigger. I did it mainly to see if raising my FT would make a significant difference in feeling better cognitive wise and brain fog wise. Sleep was great. Now after a year on TRT my sleep has been hit probably the first time ever, which is really a bad thing. Also bp and general malaise telling me my body doest agree with T at all no matter what I try. Cognitive functions declined as well possibly due to elevated bp, im guessing, or other mechanisms.

I was off TRT for 3 years since end of last year when I pulled the trigger. Before that I was 3 years on 250mg/week of test-e. I did imo a good restart protocol with hCG and clomid for a longer time period(cycled climid) and recovered without any problems at all. I have the protocol saved somewhere and can find it if you want to take a look. I'm also approaching the end of my experiment as I won't push my luck with elevated bp and feeling like an alien. I felt good before but got sick with flu or something and that just fucked me up. Started getting bp spikes, anxiety and feeling like what i imagine low T would feel with general fatigue bouts, headaches, etc. So i lowered my dose drastically to 87.5mg/week and decided to try EOD protocol. Since then been feeling awful and its been 3 long weeks already.

Hang in there, it will get better.

 

[Cynice49]

Hi mate.

Sorry to hear you are going through this but let me tell you, you are not alone. Some of us just can't tolerate testosterone for some reasons that are still not understood. While others can pin 250mg once a week, if they forget once a month and feel absolutely fine with normal bp readings, low to none anxiety and good looking blood markers.

I'm also going through hell right now with 3rd week of elevated bp, anxiety and feeling like a hot pile of crap. Add some daily headaches on top of that and I got myself a real "party" going on here. I will share my data but first I'd like to hear what kind of protocols have you tried and on which of them you felt the best?

I started ~1yr ago with a TT level of 450 iirc and cFT borderline low. Libido and erections were fine and I felt pretty good before pulling the trigger. I did it mainly to see if raising my FT would make a significant difference in feeling better cognitive wise and brain fog wise. Sleep was great. Now after a year on TRT my sleep has been hit probably the first time ever, which is really a bad thing. Also bp and general malaise telling me my body doest agree with T at all no matter what I try. Cognitive functions declined as well possibly due to elevated bp, im guessing, or other mechanisms.

I was off TRT for 3 years since end of last year when I pulled the trigger. Before that I was 3 years on 250mg/week of test-e. I did imo a good restart protocol with hCG and clomid for a longer time period(cycled climid) and recovered without any problems at all. I have the protocol saved somewhere and can find it if you want to take a look. I'm also approaching the end of my experiment as I won't push my luck with elevated bp and feeling like an alien. I felt good before but got sick with flu or something and that just fucked me up. Started getting bp spikes, anxiety and feeling like what i imagine low T would feel with general fatigue bouts, headaches, etc. So i lowered my dose drastically to 87.5mg/week and decided to try EOD protocol. Since then been feeling awful and its been 3 long weeks already.

Hang in there, it will get better.

i will say your story sounds pretty similar to mine. i have been following your thread as well. if you dont mind if i ask, why have you decided to keep pursuing trt if the symptoms have worsened? do you feel better on trt even with those symptoms as compared to off?

ive tried multiple protocols. my original protocol 6 years ago was 200mg per week and 1500iu of hcg….. red flag already. then throughout the years i changed it up and stuck with 140mg split into 2 injections and 250 iu hcg tid. that was probably the best i felt on trt. i then eventually went down to 10mg daily only test , and honestly i think the everyday protocol made me feel the worst, even though my numbers were the best.

so i would love to be able to get off everything. i feel like im young enough to recover even tho i started very young as well, but clearly even after 5/6 months my test is much lower than when i started. ill say the anxiety/panic/autonomic symptoms have improved immensely the past month but those first 4 months off trt were some of the hardest in my life, panic and anxiety every day.

 

[Belekas]

i will say your story sounds pretty similar to mine. i have been following your thread as well. if you dont mind if i ask, why have you decided to keep pursuing trt if the symptoms have worsened? do you feel better on trt even with those symptoms as compared to off?

Thanks for following and Hell no. I felt solid before starting but now after 1 year in, lots of money spent, lots of experimentation, etc and its hard to hang the gloves. Pre TRT I had great BP, slept like a baby just had some brain fog, cracking joints, various aches around body, but thats nothing compared how im feeling now and been feeling this year on and off. I had some good months dont get me wrong and I love how my body looks. But the sides are too much and im not feeling well in my head which has put me very much behind with my work that involves nothing but thinking, staying sharp and discipline. And TRT def fucked up my mental wellbeing and cognition. So now looking back the experiment was never worth it in first place but IIWII.

ive tried multiple protocols. my original protocol 6 years ago was 200mg per week and 1500iu of hcg….. red flag already. then throughout the years i changed it up and stuck with 140mg split into 2 injections and 250 iu hcg tid. that was probably the best i felt on trt. i then eventually went down to 10mg daily only test , and honestly i think the everyday protocol made me feel the worst, even though my numbers were the best.

Yeah i hear you. I was doing 250mg as well had all the bad symptoms but chalked them off and just took meds for headaches, smoked weed for wellbeing and ignored the elevated BP. Although was drinking up to 8L o water per day and had tons of salt for performance. Stupid AF I know, and tbf i cant believe i did that to myself, but again IIWII. Live and learn.

I tried EOD 25mg some months ago for 2 weeks and felt like death. Switched to 100mg E5D and nearly instantly got relief. Then started cardio, supps, etc and fwlt the best I did since starting my TRT experiment around 1 year ago. Morning BP was 105-115/60-65 felt amzing. Then got sick and it all fucked up. Nothing been the same aftterwards. So was chatting to a guy and agreed to try EOD again just bit more patient and see if it would level me out and again im feeling exactly like last time only now going 3 weeks in. Plus started getting nasty headaches. So im close to quitting right now just hanging on the last straw myself. Dont have clomid at hand else I would have quit already.

So I also believe that EOD protocol is the worst for me as well doesn't matter how sound it looks on paper, etc, etc.

so i would love to be able to get off everything. i feel like im young enough to recover even tho i started very young as well, but clearly even after 5/6 months my test is much lower than when i started. ill say the anxiety/panic/autonomic symptoms have improved immensely the past month but those first 4 months off trt were some of the hardest in my life, panic and anxiety every day.

I was 35 when I did that PCT starting with hCG and then cycling clomid. I got this protocol from a really smart guy I know in real life and I recovered nicely. Felt awesome as well. No dips or anything. Just smooth sailing. Ofc it was painful to see my hard work in the gym for the last 15 years slowly evaporating but the decision was made. I think you will recover if you do a longer pCT with clomid and cycle. I can check my notes for precise dosings and frequency. Glad you feeling better and def not an experience to have again.

Also interested if you have tried BP medications like Telmisartan and/or Nebivolol which are well recommended by some TRT docs? They supposedly have a lot of cardiovascular benefits and not only and should calm you down thus decreasing anxiety.

 

[Cynice49]

Thanks for following and Hell no. I felt solid before starting but now after 1 year in, lots of money spent, lots of experimentation, etc and its hard to hang the gloves. Pre TRT I had great BP, slept like a baby just had some brain fog, cracking joints, various aches around body, but thats nothing compared how im feeling now and been feeling this year on and off. I had some good months dont get me wrong and I love how my body looks. But the sides are too much and im not feeling well in my head which has put me very much behind with my work that involves nothing but thinking, staying sharp and discipline. And TRT def fucked up my mental wellbeing and cognition. So now looking back the experiment was never worth it in first place but IIWII.



Yeah i hear you. I was doing 250mg as well had all the bad symptoms but chalked them off and just took meds for headaches, smoked weed for wellbeing and ignored the elevated BP. Although was drinking up to 8L o water per day and had tons of salt for performance. Stupid AF I know, and tbf i cant believe i did that to myself, but again IIWII. Live and learn.

I tried EOD 25mg some months ago for 2 weeks and felt like death. Switched to 100mg E5D and nearly instantly got relief. Then started cardio, supps, etc and fwlt the best I did since starting my TRT experiment around 1 year ago. Morning BP was 105-115/60-65 felt amzing. Then got sick and it all fucked up. Nothing been the same aftterwards. So was chatting to a guy and agreed to try EOD again just bit more patient and see if it would level me out and again im feeling exactly like last time only now going 3 weeks in. Plus started getting nasty headaches. So im close to quitting right now just hanging on the last straw myself. Dont have clomid at hand else I would have quit already.

So I also believe that EOD protocol is the worst for me as well doesn't matter how sound it looks on paper, etc, etc.



I was 35 when I did that PCT starting with hCG and then cycling clomid. I got this protocol from a really smart guy I know in real life and I recovered nicely. Felt awesome as well. No dips or anything. Just smooth sailing. Ofc it was painful to see my hard work in the gym for the last 15 years slowly evaporating but the decision was made. I think you will recover if you do a longer pCT with clomid and cycle. I can check my notes for precise dosings and frequency. Glad you feeling better and def not an experience to have again.

Also interested if you have tried BP medications like Telmisartan and/or Nebivolol which are well recommended by some TRT docs? They supposedly have a lot of cardiovascular benefits and not only and should calm you down thus decreasing anxiety.

getting better by the day i believe…. hopefully

i did try telmisartan! i took 80mg a day and honestly did not touch my blood pressure much only because i think my anxiety caused my blood pressure spikes. i didnt have a provider that would prescribe me nebivolol unfortunately

 

[Belekas]

getting better by the day i believe…. hopefully

i did try telmisartan! i took 80mg a day and honestly did not touch my blood pressure much only because i think my anxiety caused my blood pressure spikes. i didnt have a provider that would prescribe me nebivolol unfortunately

I see. I tried 20mg IIRC and was fucked all next day with fatigue, more brain fog and general malaise. Tried nebivolol in the evening and fucking couldnt sleep all night long lol

 

[Cynice49]

Hello Cynice, it seems your HPTA restart has shown some progress, with increased LH and FSH, yet your testosterone levels remain low. Considering persistent symptoms like anxiety and low libido, continuing with another round of enclomiphene might be worth exploring. However, consult with a healthcare professional for personalized advice. Monitoring your symptoms and hormone levels during the process is crucial to assess the effectiveness of the restart. It's possible that factors beyond testosterone levels, such as cortisol or thyroid function, may also influence your well-being. Overall, a comprehensive approach with medical guidance will help determine the best course of action.

P.S: It's my opinion and can be wrong.

im okay with any opinion! being on for 6 years, i figured i would be in for a slow recovery. ive read some people bounce back quickly (within a few weeks) , i was just concerned with it being 5 months in and getting those results, but im hoping for the best!