HPTA Restart - HCG / Clomid

[TDM812]

History:

I was unnecessarily placed on TRT for 2 years - 200mg. I came off cold turkey under no supervision, and don’t really remember too much about the side effects, timeline, etc. I stayed off for 3 years, and again went back on. I was logging about 15-20 hours of endurance training a week, so I was a slight bit low on my free T. I don’t recall exactly what my free was, but my total was around 550. I am confident the low level was a product of training workload, but I don’t know for certain because I didn’t have bloodwork after my cold restart. This time around I’ve been one for around 3 years, I have battled estrogen non-stop the entire time. I am 100% over it. I partnered up with Defy a couple weeks ago to try a restart. I was told to cease injections, prescribed 30iu HCG daily for 14 days, stop HCG, and take .25 clomid for 6 weeks. Today is day 14 since my last injection, and day 10 of HCG. I still have a pretty good libido, ok energy, a little depressed, foggy, and soft erections. I have really noticed much of an increase in testicle size, but the volume of my load has increased. I am hopeful someone can help with a couple questions:

what should I expect for a timeline of symptom resolution, and 100% restart?

when will I know if it’s been successful?

how long until there’s a noticeable increase in testicle size?

what’s the likelihood of a successful restart?

 

[TDM812]

 

[TDM812]

See attached labs. I had a physical scheduled for last week, so I figured I would get labs done as well. These were taken on 11/23, 14 days after my last injection, and after 10 days of HCG. I had not yet started enclomiphene. It looks like my FSH has restarted, but LH is still in neutral. What do make of that? Is the HCG only to restart my fsh, and enclomiphene to restart my LH? Is this a good sign that my FSH has restarted, or is it a bad sign that they both haven’t restarted? I know it’s been a short while, but any input is appreciated.

 

[goolapsh]

History:

I was unnecessarily placed on TRT for 2 years - 200mg. I came off cold turkey under no supervision, and don’t really remember too much about the side effects, timeline, etc. I stayed off for 3 years, and again went back on. I was logging about 15-20 hours of endurance training a week, so I was a slight bit low on my free T. I don’t recall exactly what my free was, but my total was around 550. I am confident the low level was a product of training workload, but I don’t know for certain because I didn’t have bloodwork after my cold restart. This time around I’ve been one for around 3 years, I have battled estrogen non-stop the entire time. I am 100% over it. I partnered up with Defy a couple weeks ago to try a restart. I was told to cease injections, prescribed 30iu HCG daily for 14 days, stop HCG, and take .25 clomid for 6 weeks. Today is day 14 since my last injection, and day 10 of HCG. I still have a pretty good libido, ok energy, a little depressed, foggy, and soft erections. I have really noticed much of an increase in testicle size, but the volume of my load has increased. I am hopeful someone can help with a couple questions:

what should I expect for a timeline of symptom resolution, and 100% restart?

when will I know if it’s been successful?

how long until there’s a noticeable increase in testicle size?

what’s the likelihood of a successful restart?

What do you mean by chasing estrogen. What symptoms did you have that you felt like you were chasing estrogen

 

[TDM812]

What do you mean by chasing estrogen. What symptoms did you have that you felt like you were chasing estrogen

Thank you for responding. I held water, cognitively impaired, mood, fatigue, etc. It has been a nightmare. I would go high, then I would bottom out, adjust dose, repeat. At a point I thought I was dialed in, and then I bottomed out after a month or so. Today marks day 25 since my last injection. I seem to be on a bit of a roller coaster, but in all I think I am doing better than I was while on TRT. My testicle seem have grown a little bit, but not what I expected, although I had nothing to base my expectations on.

 

[Vince]

I would take 12.5 mg of enclomiphene every other day or every day for 12 weeks and then have labs. Hopefully that will work.

 

[TDM812]

I would take 12.5 mg of enclomiphene every other day or every day for 12 weeks and then have labs. Hopefully that will work.

Stop the 25mg eclomiphene daily, and take .125 every other day? They are in compounded capsules. Should I break them open, split the powder, and take it? Thank you for the help. Tomorrow makes 28 days since last injection. I have to be getting close to having shed all of the exogenous T. Out of nothing less than curiousit’s I want to get labs. I don’t suspect there would be any valuable information there at this stage so I have been withholding. What do you make of the labs I posted? Why is my FSH improving, and not my LH? Is limited regrowth of testicles a sign of this being an unsuccessful restart? I don’t feel great, but I probably feel better than when I was on T.

 

[Vince]

Stop the 25mg eclomiphene daily, and take .125 every other day? They are in compounded capsules. Should I break them open, split the powder, and take it? Thank you for the help. Tomorrow makes 28 days since last injection. I have to be getting close to having shed all of the exogenous T. Out of nothing less than curiousit’s I want to get labs. I don’t suspect there would be any valuable information there at this stage so I have been withholding. What do you make of the labs I posted? Why is my FSH improving, and not my LH? Is limited regrowth of testicles a sign of this being an unsuccessful restart? I don’t feel great, but I probably feel better than when I was on T.

It takes longer than 28 days and you may never feel good on enclomiphene. Hopefully though it will work as a restart and take you back to your previous testosterone levels.

I just wonder if, you would do better on 12.5 MG then 25 MG. As you probably know more isn’t always better.

 

[TDM812]

It has been a little more than 5 weeks since my last injection, and this is where I am at. The T free/total results aren't in yet. Does this look like a successful restart? Did they run the correct tests? Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[TDM812]

I am not sure the attachment was legible. See below for complete story.

11/23: 14 days after last injection of T, final injection of HCG, and beginning of Enclomiphene .25 daily

TSH = 3.019 (ref range .4 - 4.2
FSH =1.0 (ref range 1.0 - 12)
LH = <.2 (ref range 2 - 12)



12/16: 5 weeks since last injection of T, completed 2 weeks of HCG 3 weeks prior, and after 3 weeks of Enclomiphene .25 daily. I have approximately 3 weeks of Enclomiphene left, and the prescribed protocol will be complete.

TSH = 2.493 (ref range .4 - 4.2
FSH = 13.1 (ref range 1.0 - 12) HIGH
LH = 6.8 (ref range 2 - 12)

 

[Systemlord]

The real test will come after you stop the enclomiphene, if levels hold then things are looking good, if not then you may have to reconsider TRT.

 

[TDM812]

The real test will come after you stop the enclomiphene, if levels hold then things are looking good, if not then you may have to reconsider TRT.

Thanks a million for responding. If you were to hazard a guess - does it look promising? Why the high FSH? Does this show that if anything, I am secondary and not primary?

 

[Systemlord]

If you were to hazard a guess - does it look promising?

There's really no way to gauge if you will be successful based on your labs while on medicine that is boosting LH/testosterone production.

Why the high FSH?

The enclomiphene increase FSH along with LH.

I am secondary and not primary?

Naturally low LH numbers indicate secondary hypogonadism, a naturally high LH value indicates primary hypogonadism. So if you stop the enclomiphene and LH values drop really low, that would indicate secondary hypogonadism.

 

[TDM812]

There's really no way to gauge if you will be successful based on your labs while on medicine that is boosting LH/testosterone production.


The enclomiphene increase FSH along with LH.

Naturally low LH numbers indicate secondary hypogonadism, a naturally high LH value indicates primary hypogonadism. So if you stop the enclomiphene and LH values drop really low, that would indicate secondary hypogonadism.

I have around 3 weeks of Enclomiphene left. Once I finish, how long will it take to know if the restart has been successful?

 

[Systemlord]

Once I finish, how long will it take to know if the restart has been successful?

Typically about 6-8 weeks, but I have seen some guys testosterone levels take a couple of months to finally take a nosedive.

 

[Johnny Test]

I have around 3 weeks of Enclomiphene left. Once I finish, how long will it take to know if the restart has been successful?

Can you send me your restart protocol? Thank you.

 

[TDM812]

Can you send me your restart protocol? Thank you.

Wait a few days after last T injection, and start the following:

300 iu HCG daily for 14 days
STOP HCG
Immediately start .25 enclomiphene daily for 6 weeks
STOP enclomiphene
take labs

This is straight from Defy.

 

[TDM812]

Wait a few days after last T injection, and start the following:

300 iu HCG daily for 14 days
STOP HCG
Immediately start .25 enclomiphene daily for 6 weeks
STOP enclomiphene
take labs

This is straight from Defy.

I injected my HCG subcutaneously, but if I had it to do over I would go intramuscular. I tried T injections sub, and it didn’t absorb very well. I was at around 1500 total T going intramuscular, and when switched over to sub it dropped to 8-900. It makes me wonder if I got the full effect of the HCG.

 

[TDM812]

Typically about 6-8 weeks, but I have seen some guys testosterone levels take a couple of months to finally take a nosedive.

So I should expect a drop in T again after stopping the Enclomiphene? I thought it would drop as the exogenous T was excreted, build back up while on Enclomiphene, and stay.

 

[TDM812]

Wait a few days after last T injection, and start the following:

300 iu HCG daily for 14 days
STOP HCG
Immediately start .25 enclomiphene daily for 6 weeks
STOP enclomiphene
take labs

This is straight from Defy.

Forgot to mention AI - Anastrozole .125 x 2-3 weekly, or as needed.