How to Predict Estradiol and DHT at Different Testosterone Doses

[Nelson Vergel]

Thanks @ecdysone

 

[Devil613]

Guys, my last test came back at 1169 and my ultra-sensitive estradiol came back at 66. Would any of you be concerned?

 

[Gman86]

Guys, my last test came back at 1169 and my ultra-sensitive estradiol came back at 66. Would any of you be concerned?

how u feeling mood and energy wise? How’s libido and erections?

 

[Devil613]

how u feeling mood and energy wise? How’s libido and erections?

I feel great! Getting great results with putting on muscle and losing fat - I'm hard when I need to be and waking up with morning wood. I just don't want GYNO!!!!

 

[Gman86]

I feel great! Getting great results with putting on muscle and losing fat - I'm hard when I need to be and waking up with morning wood. I just don't want GYNO!!!!

I wouldn’t worry about gyno at all. U’ll know if u have to worry about it. When I was using HCG monotherapy I started to develop some gyno in my left nipple. I’m assuming it was mostly due to the increase in prolactin and/ or progesterone tho, because I’ve had my E2 way higher on TRT, and never had any issues with gyno. Before the gyno started to form on HCG mono, my nipples were constantly itchy and sensitive for weeks and weeks. They were so itchy and sensitive that I had to put tape over them so they wouldn’t rub up against my shirt. I would scratch them to the point they would start to bleed a little bit. On testosterone I’ll get random nipple sensitivity for a day or two during hormone fluctuations, but nothing even remotely close to what I experienced on HCG mono prior to getting gyno. I now can recognize the difference between hormone fluctuation nipple sensitivity and gyno forming nipple sensitivity. So unless ur nipples end up being itchy and sensitive for weeks on end, I wouldn’t worry about getting gyno from an elevated E2

 

[Match]

T 637
E 32
E compativel com a tabela, se reduzi-lo 20%

 

[Devil613]

I had my last bloods done with Quest was at 1411 Total Test, Estradiol 67 ( Reference Range < 39. I am taking DIM-300 dose. This table is right on the money.

 

[JA Battle]

I wouldn’t worry about gyno at all. U’ll know if u have to worry about it. When I was using HCG monotherapy I started to develop some gyno in my left nipple. I’m assuming it was mostly due to the increase in prolactin and/ or progesterone tho, because I’ve had my E2 way higher on TRT, and never had any issues with gyno. Before the gyno started to form on HCG mono, my nipples were constantly itchy and sensitive for weeks and weeks. They were so itchy and sensitive that I had to put tape over them so they wouldn’t rub up against my shirt. I would scratch them to the point they would start to bleed a little bit. On testosterone I’ll get random nipple sensitivity for a day or two during hormone fluctuations, but nothing even remotely close to what I experienced on HCG mono prior to getting gyno. I now can recognize the difference between hormone fluctuation nipple sensitivity and gyno forming nipple sensitivity. So unless ur nipples end up being itchy and sensitive for weeks on end, I wouldn’t worry about getting gyno from an elevated E2

Could also be the ratio between androgens and e2.

 

[JA Battle]

I had my last bloods done with Quest was at 1411 Total Test, Estradiol 67 ( Reference Range < 39. I am taking DIM-300 dose. This table is right on the money.

How does one feel?

 

[Gman86]

Could also be the ratio between androgens and e2.

Vey good point! But idk, I was controlling E2 with an ai, and test levels were around 1200 total on 2000iu’s of HCG/ week. But honestly there’s still a chance u could be right. HCG stimulates the leydig cells in the testicles to produce testosterone, and I’ve heard that HCG causes a lot of the aromatizatiin to occur within the testicles, and I’ve heard that ai’s are inneficient/ unable to control testicular aromatization, or something along those lines. So the point u brought up could definitely be valid. Good thinking

 

[JA Battle]

With 1200 total test e2 would need to be very high to have gyno for most. You may be right about prolactin. I’ve heard that prolactin is a good metric for tissue estrogen but I cannot remember the literature. Maybe I can dig it

the benefit of hcg is that there should also be a nice increase in progesterone which prevents estrogen from being stored in tissues. This is likely why hcg increases e2 more. It’s because it increases progesterone and higher progesterone means more circulating e2 vs tissue bound.

progesterone should lower prolactin over the long run.

Maybe this is why progesterone causes sexual sides for some. I’d venture to say it’s temporary and could be due to a change in how e2 is behaving in the presence of progesterone until such time the body adjusts.

 

[Singh767]

Hi @Nelson Vergel , thanks for the video and calculation! I have watched it twice but for some reason just cant get my head around it, sorry mate. I am 29 years old fyi, what should my oestradiol be roughly with your graph?

So my serum oestradiol level is 15.23 pg/ml.
My testosterone is 527.8 ng/dl

So do I now divide the 2?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

1 Picogram per milliliter [pg/ml] = 0.1 Nanogram per deciliter [ng/dl]

Estradiol 15.23 pg/mL= 1.523 ng/dL

Estradiol ng/dL/Total T ng/dL x 100= 1.523/527.8= 0.00288. So, you multiply 0.00288 x 100= 0.288%. You are aromatizing 0.288% of your total T into Estradiol. We have some data that shows 0.3- 0.4% of T gets aromatized to estradiol, so you are under that (assuming you are not taking anastrozole).

For a T/E2 ratio;

527.8/15.23= 34.7

The only data we have is about low fertility with low T/E2 ratios under around 14. So, you are good.

 

[Graham]

Any idea why my dht would be way off based on this formula ? FYI it’s twice the range with a pretty moderate tt

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Any idea why my dht would be way off based on this formula ? FYI it’s twice the range with a pretty moderate tt

What's your DHT? It usually runs about 10% of total T.

This is the formula from the study:

DHT = 269.4xTT/(2389.6+TT)

TT= Total Testosterone

 

[Graham]

What's your DHT? It usually runs about 10% of total T.

This is the formula from the study:

DHT = 269.4xTT/(2389.6+TT)

TT= Total Testosterone

Using that formula my dht should be 61, I typically come in around 170. This is just on injections and hcg. When I used the gel my levels were 275

 

[Nelson Vergel]

@Graham

You are probably one of the outliers.

 

[Graham]

@Graham

You are probably one of the outliers.


View attachment 17882

Interesting, should I be worried about having dht levels high like mine long term ?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Interesting, should I be worried about having dht levels high like mine long term ?

Not really. Enjoy it.

Read this review:

Is Dihydrotestosterone DHT Good or Bad for Men?

In this issue of Endocrine Reviews, Swerdloff et al. (5) review the human and animal data regarding the physiological and clinical implications of elevated blood concentrations of DHT in men and women. All exogenous testosterone formulations increase serum DHT concentrations above...

www.excelmale.com

 

[philpulman]

I also have similar E levels, and my endo is also very hesitant to up my dose, and my T levels were still very high on Spyro (above the upper male limit with 100 mg/day), so I changed to cypro. I'm not the only one, and I know other people that Spyro didn't work, who knows why. I think a dose of 600-800 mg/day is overkill, I haven't seen anyone with doses higher than 400 mg, and the normal one is around 100-200 mg, so try to ask your doctor to try another blocker. I'm also on steroids, found safer alternatives for these supplements on [edited by moderator].